Hello Guys,

I've been off of the forum for over two years. I have learned alot in that time. Some things I had been warned about came back to haunt me.
Kinda made me think about the kind advice given me by a more experienced shooter here on this forum. (Another day, another time with that argument though). Good advice is the reason I'm back. I am seeking some advice on a reloading problem I am having, so let me state the facts:

1.I DON'T WANT TO START AN ARGUMENT!
2.I am an experienced handloader that thought he knew most of the facts until the Wildcat came along.
3.The rifle is a M700 Sendro that has been reworked and fitted with a preimium aftermarket barrel and chambered in 6.5-.270AI.
4.I use .270 Winchester brass with 51 grains of Reloader 19 under a 140 grain Speer flatbase bullet as a fireform load, with satisfactory results.
5.I load 53 grains of Reloader 22 under a 140 grain A-Max .005 off of the lands with excellent accuracy out to 1500+ yards.
6.I am not a rich man.....
7.....nor do I wish to blow myself up.
8.I am not getting any brass life. Two to three shots.
9.I know brass is cheap.....custom guns are not! If I ruin my brass, I must fireform more which equals more useless rounds through the tube.
10.I understand faster is not always better.
11.I enjoy maximum efficiency.
12.I am getting streched primer pockets.
13.My loads are reasonable????
14.My expectations for the Ackley were WAY too high, but I realize this now.
15.My goal is to have a reliable load that I can get at least 8 to 10 shots out of a piece of brass with benchrest accuracy. I have the accuracy taken care of.
16.I was using WLRM primers but switched to WLR to try to tone things down. No blown primers. Primers show signs of a stiff load, but still have round corners. I have seen alot worse.


My questions I guess are:

1.Am I using the correct powders, burn rate that is?
2.Is Reloader 19 too slow for fire forming?
3.Would a faster powder help or do I need to just keep reducing my loads to stop the loose pockets?
4.I do not seat the bullets into the land for fireforming, there is a crushfit, the chamber was done properly, but could it be a headspace thing?

This is my first wildcat and it has been a learning experience.

BigE

Big E,
Welcome back. If you are getting only 2-3 loads before your primer pockets are loose, obviously your load is too hot (you knew that or you wouldn't have posted.)

Your rifle likes the higher velocities, which is good. You need to find a load that give accuracy without blown primers. I don't think that it is a head space issue because that would result in split cases. However, when you resolve this issue, you may find that not seating the bullet out results in split cases too early.

You are using essentially a 270 case necked down. You don't say what your barrel length is, but longer is better with slower powders. The obvious course would be to back off one and a half grains, as you mention. If you want to try other propellants and are at RL22, you may want to go to RL25, 7828 and H1000 to see if they can produce the velocities you 'crave' at the pressures your brass will tolerate. I'd think that any powder useful in the 7mm Rem Mag would be in the zone for your rifle.

My gunsmith tells me that occassionally rifles will work the other way around, and want a faster powder. Therefore, if going slower does not work, try slightly faster powders. What kind of performance did you get from RL19 (other than formed cases)? That might be interesting data.

Of course, this is why we shoot wildcats. It gives us an opportunity to solve life's little mysteries while having fun burning powder. Please be careful. As you well know, the loose pockets are a sign of over pressures, and a pretty reliable sign. Kudude

PS: Please get back with the answer. You have me curious to the answer. Kd

Haven't checked the velocities of the fireform load. Didn't really care, I don't guess. I get pretty good groups from them. The one's that I shot on paper were less than one inch.

The thing that makes me wonder is that I see a trend with heavy for caliber bullets using faster powder with good results.

Velocity is not that important to me. I would like to stay in the 2900-3000 range, but if not, oh well.

Also, if it matters, the barrel is a 26" Douglas.

BigE, if you're getting loose pockets after a few reloads, you're running PSIs of 65,000 or more. Quickest solution is to backoff on the powder charge by 2 or 3 grains. Accuracy might even get better.

I have a 25-06 AI, and I imagine your 6.5-270 AI is very similar - overbore. If you need velocity at lower pressure go to the slowest powder you can - I'd suggest R25 or Retumbo.

quote:

Originally posted by bigE:
3.The rifle is a M700 Sendro that has been reworked and fitted with a preimium aftermarket barrel and chambered in 6.5-.270AI.
4.I use .270 Winchester brass with 51 grains of Reloader 19 under a 140 grain Speer flatbase bullet as a fireform load, with satisfactory results.
5.I load 53 grains of Reloader 22 under a 140 grain A-Max .005 off of the lands with excellent accuracy out to 1500+ yards.
8.I am not getting any brass life. Two to three shots.
12.I am getting streched primer pockets.
13.My loads are reasonable????
14.My expectations for the Ackley were WAY too high, but I realize this now.
15.My goal is to have a reliable load that I can get at least 8 to 10 shots out of a piece of brass with benchrest accuracy. I have the accuracy taken care of.

This is my first wildcat and it has been a learning experience.

BigE

Hey BigE, When you said, "This is my first wildcat and it has been a learning experience.", that is true for everyone starting out with one. So, don't be too hard on yourself. Generally the same with #14.

I've no First Hand Experience with the 6.5-270AI, so all my input will be generic in nature.

In response to #13, since you listed #8 and #12, then you are already aware of the answer - No! Something in your specific rifle is creating that High Pressure that you may or may not have control over. If the Bore dimensions are tight with those specific A-Max bullets, you can try a different brand of Match Grade bullet to see if the Pressure goes down a bit.

You can also begin Moly Coating those same A-Max bullets, which will reduce the Pressure and Increase the Ballistic Coefficient about 5%.

But as AIU mentioned, your Powder selection might be too "fast" as Kudude and AIU mentioned.

quote:

My questions I guess are:

1.Am I using the correct powders, burn rate that is?
2.Is Reloader 19 too slow for fire forming?
3.Would a faster powder help or do I need to just keep reducing my loads to stop the loose pockets?
4.I do not seat the bullets into the land for fireforming, there is a crushfit, the chamber was done properly, but could it be a headspace thing?

I prefer full cases of Slow Burning Powders with a slight crush fit for the bullet when seated.

In response to #1, put your 53gr Load of RL-22 in a case and look inside the neck. If you have room in the case(which I suspect you do), then a "Slower Powder" will help fill that space and reduce the Pressure at the same time. But, you probably just need to go to a Slower Powder anyhow, because that is "one thing" you can change that will "Lower the Pressure".

#2, Probably not.

#3. If you are determined to continue using RL-22, then you do need to reduce the Loads for using those specific bullets as they are right now. Or, lay in a HUGE supply of cases.

#4. Headspace would not create this issue, but since your case is a slight "crush fit", Headspace is not an issue anyhow.
---

Lots of good Powder available today which are "Slower" than RL-22 and as the other guys mentioned, that is what I'd try first myself.

Thanks Guys,

Everyone kinda confirmed what I had suspected all along, but it never hurts to get some fresh ideas. I'm gonna try some Reloader 25 that I have on hand for my final loads, and after giving it some thought, I think I will try to go to a little faster burning powder than Reloader 19 for the fireforming.

Eric

BigeE, I thionk everyone who reloads here will agree that if your primer pockets are stretching after 2-3 loads, the loads are too hot for that brass at least. You could back of 1 grain & see if case life increases. From what you describe, you don't have a headspace problem, so no need to change your fireforming load or technique. The only rounds I have that would be close to yours are a .260ai & .280. Both like full cases of slow powder w/ heavier bullets (usually lower pressures). I've also found some brass "softer; than other & shy away from it in my loads. Good luck w/ it.

BigE, I fireform my 25-06 AI with a varmit load - that is, light bullet with PSI set at ~55,000. No need to go all out with varmit loads, because with a 6.5-270 AI you should get great accuracy and performance with something mid range in pressure. Save the HOT stuff for super long range hunting.

my 2 cents

start with straight cylindrial brass .... if not, okay..

load the slowest 270 powders, starting loads, book....( i know it's a 6.5)

work up to where it shoots like you want, UNDER book max

there's your load...

AI's are a MAX of 150 fps (usually far less)

the noslor book has loads for 6.5 brenneks, i think, which is a close cousin

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
..I've also found some brass "softer; than other & shy away from it in my loads. ...

Hey BigE, That is also an excellent idea, it might just be the specific Lot of cases you are using.

Try forming a 3-5 from other manufacturers and see if you still loose cases as quickly. Only real concern is if they are at the same Pressure level as the ones you are loosing in 2-3 firings, then you are still subjecting the entire firearm to that "over pressure condition".

You could do the test SAFELY and be able to STOP before you got to the same level as your original Loads if you would check the Pressure Ring Expansion(PRE) with a 0.0001" capable Micrometer as you re-test. Just measure the PRE (as has been discussed numerous times on this Board) of one of your "Over-Expanded Cases" which has not been Resized and use that value as Too Much Expansion. Then watch the PRE as you begin using the different manufacturers cases or slower Powders and as you approach the PRE value you know is too much, you can STOP before you get into that Pressure level.

Good old PRE to the rescue AGAIN!