'Afternoon gentlemen,



I need a load with a heavier bullet in the 30.06 than the speer 150 gr BTSP i'm using at the moment.

F.A. Andersons have a box of Hornday 165 gr BTSP and Speer 165 BTSP. I am picking up a tub of H4350 and possibly some Vitavhouri powder depending on reccomendations.

I am getting 2800 fps with good accuracy from the speer load using H4895, I would be looking to replicate that sort of velocity at least with the 165 grainers.

I would particularly like to hear about people's experiences with the bullets in question at 30.06 impact velocities with a variety of game, to give you something to go on the rifle will be used on everything from the size of fox ( occasionaly and i'm not worried about meat or fur damage ) up to red deer that are the size of your American Elk.

I already have some H4895 btw.

I would be grateful for any loads, experience of the bullets in question and powder reccomendations.

Thanks fellas.



A

I have used both the Speer and Hornady 165 gr bullets in '06s on coyote's up through elk. I most often use the Hornady as the accuracy and terminal ballistics are always excellent. I also have used IMR, H and AA 4350s. All are good powders for the '06 with 165 to 180 gr bullets. However all can be a tad different. Suggest you start at 56 gr and work up in 1/2 gr incrments to 60 gr. Watch for the usual pressure signs and stop if anything gets excessive.

I recently picked up a bit of AA4350 and worked up just as described using the Hornady 165 BTSP. I also have a strain gauge attached to the barrel of my M70 Classic Sporter (24" barrel) and had the Oehler M43 PBL hooked to up. Accuracy was good and got excellent at 59.5 gr. I loaded a 10 shot string of that load and all 10 shots went into 1.18" ctc at 100 yards. Muzzle velocity was 2839 fps and the average peak ressure was 58,300 psi(M43). The extrems spred for the 10 shots was 40 fps with a standard deviation of 13 fps. That is THE load I'll use with that powder/bullet combination.

I've found with numerous '06s and all three 4350s that such velocity and accuracy at a very acceptable pressure is usually found between 58 and 60 gr of the chosen 4350. Of course it varies depending on the flavor of 4350, the cases and primers used (I used WW cases with WLR primers) and the particular rifle used in. That's why you must work up the load for your rifle.

At any rate I would recommend either bullet but favor the Hornadys. The H4350 is an excellent powder to use. Let us know how you make out.

Larry Gibson

Thanks Larry,

The 150 gr speers were a little too soft for my tastes, so i'm hoping the 165gr will result in less meat damage etc.

See here for the accuracy potential of the rifle : scroll down and click for the targets

And here for the incident with the chinese water deer: clicky

Will post photo's of targets when all is done mate.

Regards,

A

quote:

F.A. Andersons have a box of Hornday 165 gr BTSP and Speer 165 BTSP. I am picking up a tub of H4350 and possibly some Vitavhouri powder depending on reccomendations.

Amir,

Wow! My response will be somewhat mundane compared to Larry's.

I've used 165 gr bullets in my '06 for a long while and they are my Go-To load for this cartidge. For European sized game my experiences with this bullet weight has been; well, oustanding.

The initial 165 grainers I loaded were Speer 165 gr. SPBT and with IMR-4350. Back then as good a combination as today; although currently I prefer H-4350 with the Hornady 180 gr. RN's.

The Nosler 165 gr. Partitions get a healthy dose of VVN-160.

I've often read that "The" load for the 30-06 is a good 165gr bullet and 57 to 58.5gr of IMR4350.

In terms of accuracy and hunting efficiency, I'm very pleased with this .30-06 handload :

165 Sierra GK / N 160 / 60.5

André.....is this sierra bullet you are using SBT or the HPBT version of the 165 gr GK ?

I load mine with 49gr of IMR-4064 under 165gr Accubonds, CCI-200 primers, R-P neck sized brass to 3.34" OAL. Gives 5/8" when I do my part.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
...F.A. Andersons have a box of Hornday 165 gr BTSP and Speer 165 BTSP. I am picking up a tub of H4350

Hey Ghubert, My data is a bit dated, but I've used both of those bullets in a couple of 30-06s with that same powder. They both worked fine on Deer and Hog size Game. One rifle would shoot the Hornady the best and another would shoot the Speer the best. Just never knew which one it would be until it was tried in the specific rifle though.

I don't remember ever using H4895 in a 30-06, so I can't help you there. And I never wasted a lot of time with a chronograph, so I can't provide "totally worthless" data for you there either.

quote:

...the rifle will be used on everything from the size of fox ( occasionaly and i'm not worried about meat or fur damage ) up to red deer that are the size of your American Elk. ...

Though either bullet you mentioned might do just fine on your Red Deer, since you mention they are Elk size, I feel sure I'd go with a Nosler Partition(though I've never shot an Elk).

Best of luck to you.

I seem to remember that you were concerned about over expansion hence the move to the heavier weights?

The speer btsp is a softer bullet than the hotcore spitzer. If you go to 165gr but keep the same muzzle velocity you will merely add deeper penetration to your meat damage (as well as recoil)

Before you go to 165gr I'd reccomend you try the 150gr sierra pro hunter at 2,800fps. I have had great success with this bullet which does not cause overmuch damage even on roe. If however you do want to try 165gr I repeat my advice to follow Andre's example with the 165gr bthp.

Ghubert,
You might send an email to Speer asking them about the relative toughness of the Speer 150 vs the 165grn bullets. I called them one time about the 180 and the 220 grain 35 cal flat point bullets. I was thinking the 220 might be a heavier jacket bullet. The technician told me the two bullets had the same jacket thickness, so any performance difference would be primarily due to weight. I mention that because you never know if there is a significant design difference in the two bullets.
One of the first loads that I ever worked up to was 58.5 grns of IMR4350 with the Hornady 165 grn flat base. I picked that bullet because the usual 30-06 is throated for long heavy bullets courtesy of it's ancient military heritage. The boat tailed bullets did nothave a long enough shank to permit seating the bullet out near the rifling. I got exceptional accuracy with that load.

For what its worth I'v been using the 165grBT Sierra GameKing that Federal puts in their premium cartridges for 30 yrs and would not use anything else. Performance is nearly perfect every time and critters rarely get back up again.

I have used the 165 grain Hornadys in years past for hunting. They were very accurate but I was never completely satisfided hunting with them. They were to explosive for me. I remember one little buck that was running away at approximately 90 yards and running at about a 45 degree angle. When I shot I thought that I had seen a red haze when the bullet hit but dismissed that thought until I arrived at the animal. I was amazed at the damage. The bullet had hit a rib going in and exploded and for sure I had seen the "red haze". There was a bloody mist on the sage at the impact site. Now I only use 165 grain Partitions for hunting and Hornadys for practice. Those Partitions will kill well and not ruin all of your meat doing it.
Regards, Keith
Semper Fi

Thanks lads,

Obtaining the bullets mentioned is a little tricky for a Londoner but I'll report back on findings when everything is in place.

Regards,

Amir

I second that the 150 grain Speer Hotcor flat based bullet is a good bit tougher than the BTSP they offer. I have used this bullet on all American deer species including elk with good results though on elk I would only take broadside shots and avoid centering the bone.

A bit OT, but relevent, I think. I've taken several deer with the Speer 165 gr. Hot-Core and this is my go to bullet for my .308 Win. for deer and elk when I'm lucky enough to draw a tag.
However, sticking with deer, I've shot the deer at ranges running anywhere from a few feet to 250 yards, that shot laser measured. The only bullet I recovered was from the 250 yard shot. What the other bullets did will forever remain a mystery, but the recovered bullet retained abouy 65 percent of it's original weight and struck the deer head on right at the base of the neck. The bullet passed though the deer coming to a stop against a back leg bone, breaking the leg.
As I said, I wouldn't worry if that's what was in my rifle while elk hunting.
However, the advice to go to the Nosler partition is good and you might also consider the 165 gr. Accubond as well. I was given some 165 gr. Accubonds a while back but I have not loaded them in anything yet.
I have not decided whether to use them in the .308 or save them for the 30-06.
FWIW, I'm not a big fan of boat tail bullets. I've seen too many slip their cores afyer hitting big game and a couple of times they almost cost me a deer.
Probably 99 percent of the time I stick to the 180 gr. Sierra Pro-Hunters for my 30-06. They just plain flat out work just fine for me at 2750 FPS. from the 06 they don't mangle up a whole lot of good eating meat.
Paul B.