I have had 2 cases seperate after 3 loading. Is this normal or what am I doing wrong? I am full length sizing but it seems like I should get better life out of the RP cases. My rifle is a Pre mod 70 and I am using 70 grains RL-15 and 300 grains DGS.

You probably push the shoulder back when you resize; you should try to unscrew 1/2 tour the sizing die and size a couple of cases, then try to chamber them; if the bolt get sticky, try to screw the sizing die 1/8 tour more, try again and so on. The secret is to not push the shoulder back. Your rifle could have a "generous" head space, like mine. Anyway, I've found a big improvement in case life using the Lee collet die. I would suggest you to discard all the brass you have reloaded until now and start with a new batch.

The 375 H&H Magnum doesn't have much of a shoulder to headspace on. For this reason it, and the 300 H&H Magnum both really need their respective belts for headspace and they tend to stretch more than other cartridges. You can try neck sizing but don't count on that solving your problem.

Early head separations is the reason I now use Norma rather than Federal or Remington brass for reloading my 375 H&H Magnum.

Also, after the first reloading, you should check each case for incipient head separation. It's easy to do; run a paper clip with the end bent to 90 degrees down the inside of the case. If you feel a groove forming near the head of the case, toss that case in the trash.

Yup, no need to work brass mor than it needs. As long as it will still chamber ok, neck sizing is the way to go. Only bump a shoulder when you have to.

375 H&H brass is expensive in case you've not noticed. It is well woth the money to invest in an actual neck sizing die, mine is a Redding. By just neck sizing I have gotten many, many firings out of both Winchester and R-P cases in my M70. I have not had a case seperation since sing the neck sizer.

You can back the die off or "partial" resize" as mentioned but in the long run the neck size die is the best way to go.

Same can be said for using the neck sizer in a most rifle cartridges.

Larry Gibson

Thanks Guys, I am getting ready for a Buffalo hunt and need to shoot alot. I have ordered a Lee Collet die so i should be in good shape.

If the neck die doesn't solve the problem, I'll suggest forming a false shoulder on the brass. Expand the necks of the virgin brass to .408 or .416 (less would be better if you can obtain the mandrel). Then size the neck down so that it's length just fits the chamber. After firing, the case will fit the chamber perfectly without the brass having been stretched lengthwise.

I won't recommend neck-sized brass for a buffalo hunt (feed reliability). If you have a generous chamber, some die mfrs will open up a die to match your rifle's chamber; you have to send several fired cases with your F/L die.

quote:

Originally posted by Winchester 69:
If the neck die doesn't solve the problem, I'll suggest forming a false shoulder on the brass.....

Another interesting hint!

quote:

Originally posted by drdlongshot:
I have had 2 cases seperate after 3 loading. Is this normal or what am I doing wrong? I am full length sizing but it seems like I should get better life out of the RP cases.

Hey drdlongshot, That is normal for Full Length Resizing a Case that has a Chamber cut for Dangerous Game Hunting. Better to have reduced Case Life than a jam due to a bit of dirt.

quote:

Originally posted by drdlongshot:
Thanks Guys, I am getting ready for a Buffalo hunt and need to shoot alot. ...

If it was me going, I'd take Cartridges which have been "once-fired" and then Full Length Resized. I would not want Neck Sized or P-FLRED Cartridges going along on a Dangerous Game Hunt. Both could cause a jam at the worst possible time.

For normal practice at home(no dangerous game around), or Hunting Non-Dangerous Game, then Neck Sizing or P-FLR(which I prefer) will extend the Case Life. And if the Cartridges happens to jam due to an errant Pine Needle, it doesn't really matter.

Good Buffalo Hunting and keep blasting until it is absolutely dead.

Try some WW cases (if available). RP brass and primers are undesirables from my own experience.

Check out this option.
http://www.larrywillis.com/
Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die
I tried it and it works well.

For the hunt I had planned on taking new cases. With all this information I now am wondering if I should have full length resize the new cases?

Longhot: You're getting a lot of armchair advice from folks who are largely repeating things they've heard and a have accepted at face value. I'll only tell you what I know from 40+ years of shooting experience.

1. Like any bottlenecked cartridge with a significant shoulder (which the .375 H&H has), it should be reloaded to headspace on the shoulder, not the belt.

2. Full length sizing does nothing to ensure that your cartridges will feed and chamber consistently because failure of the bolt to close on a cartridge can be from several causes, including bulging the case in an FL die or setting the shoulder back so that the excessive headspace can cause the extractor not to snap over the rim (yes, Virignia, short cartridges CAN jam your gun). When going on any serious hunt (all serious hunting is for dangerous game since a failure of your rifle is dangerous to your enjoyment of the hunt whether the game has fangs and claws or not) you should test chamber every round of ammunition no matter what method of resizing was used. If it chambers cleanly, then whether it was FL sized, neck-sized, or unsized is irrelavent.

3. Neck-sizing with the Lee Collet die is just fine if your reloaded cartridges rechamber without excessive resistance. Neck-sizing with conventional dies can create a problem because conventional neck sizer-only dies tend to cant the neck to one side or the other slightly, thus potentially degrading accuracy.

4. "Partial full length resizing" with your FL die usually works just fine. Screw it off of the shellholder a turn or so. Resize your case. If there is resistance to rechambering the sized case, then screw the die down in increments until the case reenters the chamber without resistance. Using this method both keeps your neck straight (because the case is being supported by the die walls on the case body just below the shoulder) and prevents the shoulder from being set back so far as to create excessive headspace.

4. Shooting new cases is fine and can produce excellent accuracy (I shot some 700 yard targets using brand new cases this weekend and the new cases exhibited the same accuracy as once-fired cases). DON'T simply screw your FL die down against the shellholder and resize any case, new or not. If your die dimension is a bit shorter than your chamber (or your shellholder lip is thinner than the die was designed for), then you can create excessive headspace. Instead, use the same partial FL sizing method described above so as not to unreasonably set back the shoulders. The fact that it is a belted case may not "save your bacon" in that I've seen plenty of belted chambers on which the belt recess was so excessive as to provide no headspacing at all.

Have fun on your hunt. Knowing that all of the cartridges in your belt have previously been cleanly chambered in your gun should add some confidence.

Get one of the Hornady case measuring tools that attaches to your calipers. Pick out the standard gage ring diameter for a .375. Measure the length to the shoulder of cases that have been thoroughly fired formed to fit your chamber. Write down the number. Remove the expander from your FL die. Set the FL die down until it sets the fired formed shoulders back about .001 to .002. Reinstall your expander ball. FL size several cases and expand the necks per normal practice. Verify that the headspace is still set properly and that the cases really do chamber in your rifle. You should be set.
The Lee Collet die really has no place using in a repeating .375 unless the ammo is just used at the bench or single shot style. The Lee collet die really does not produce much grip on the bullet. With a .375 the rounds in the magazine will probably push the bullets back into the case due to recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by drdlongshot:
For the hunt I had planned on taking new cases. With all this information I now am wondering if I should have full length resize the new cases?

Hey drdlongshot, You can go outside, point the rifle in a SAFE direction and cycle all the Cartridges through the rifle from the magazine. If they seem a bit snug, then they would be a concern that I'd not want in the back of my mind on the Hunt.

If that is the situation, I'd take 40-60 new Cases, FLR them, Fire Form them, FLR again and Reload them for the Hunt.

Then I'd practice with my other Cases "without" a Lead Sled in sight. The more I hear about Lead Sleds, the more I dislike the entire concept.

Best of luck on the Hunt.

I beg to disagree SR, my Lee collet die makes good ammos that chamber well in my rifle and the neck grip is just fine; of course, as said before, it would not be a good idea to use it to reload ammos for DG hunting.

I reload belted cases too, and I'm going to be the contrarian about reloading your 375 H&H cases.

I would just purchase a neck sizing die, and be done with it.

And yes, I hunt dangerous game with neck sized cartridges myself.

It's true that there are some neck sized (previously fired) cases that when reloaded feed poorly. In my experience it's been about 1 cartridge out of every 30 or so, and that seems odd too. (Why isn't it some number like 5% or 10% of reloaded cartridges?....haven't got a clue).

But my point is, after reloading your neck sized cartridges, load them in the magazine of your rifle, and then cycle each and everyone of them.
Set aside the (very) few that are rough, but don't tear them down. Use those cartridges stateside when you need to resight or practice.

The cases that fed easily are your shooters, and they will be perfect on safari.

Garrett

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
I beg to disagree SR, my Lee collet die makes good ammos that chamber well in my rifle and the neck grip is just fine; of course, as said before, it would not be a good idea to use it to reload ammos for DG hunting.

Disagree all you want. It is silly to size .375 cases with a collet die.

number one ..say it after me ..
the 375 HH is a HIGH pressure case...
That's right, i SAID it.
55K CUP - not PSI...
in psi, its just about 62,400PSI ... EXACTLY the same as all weatherby ammo.

<say it aint so, jeffe> .. Sorry, it is SO.

Next, the 375 HH is designed to fit snuggly in the neck and at the belt ... the shoulder on the 375HH AINT for headspacing, its for easy feeding

To solve your problem, so you can shoot ALOT
partial resize your brass.. this is EASY... take the expander out, use a marker on the neck, all the way down to the shoulder. Turn your dies IN until they hit the shellholder, turn out 2/3 of a turn ...and resize. See how much marker is left on the neck, and if the round chambers EASILY into your gun.

once that's done,
ANNEAL YOUR BRASS every 3 to 5 shots. this procedure is in every reloading book

Oh, yeah, shooting it at 2400 vs 2500 (or more) will seriously extend your case life. generally, that will be 2% of powder, or 2 grains. You are practicing shooting, and there's not a buffalo out there that knows 100FPS

whatever you do, don't FL size

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
I beg to disagree SR, my Lee collet die makes good ammos that chamber well in my rifle and the neck grip is just fine; of course, as said before, it would not be a good idea to use it to reload ammos for DG hunting.

Disagree all you want. It is silly to size .375 cases with a collet die.

It's not silly, since it works well for me and my rifle; I'm talking about my actual experience.

quote:

the 375 HH is a HIGH pressure case...
That's right, i SAID it.
55K CUP

Wouldn't that depend on the powder? (Accepting the SAAMI spec of 55,000CUP).

From Hodgedon;

quote:

300 GR. SIE SPBT Hodgdon H414 .375" 3.600" 75.0 2502 45,200 CUP 78.0 2548 46,800 CUP

There are faster loads listed but at higher pressure. (At lower pressure, lubing the loaded cartridge lightly would extend case life even further - for range work).

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

the 375 HH is a HIGH pressure case...
That's right, i SAID it.
55K CUP

Wouldn't that depend on the powder? (Accepting the SAAMI spec of 55,000CUP).

not really, as the SPEC doesn't change, the LOAD does. One can, with better powders, load any numbers of rounds to less pressure than spec, including the weatherbies.

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

From Hodgedon;

quote:

300 GR. SIE SPBT Hodgdon H414 .375" 3.600" 75.0 2502 45,200 CUP 78.0 2548 46,800 CUP

There are faster loads listed but at higher pressure. (At lower pressure, lubing the loaded cartridge lightly would extend case life even further - for range work).

I've never lubed a case, in a rifle, to make it last longer... so I wouldn't have experience.. I have opinion, but that is not experience.

I'd say using a Lee collet die is a good idea for 375 H&H practice ammo, to increase case life. Regards collet dies not providing enough bullet pull, isn't that what crimping in the cannelure does? All proper 375 H&H bullets have a cannelure. Lots of folks sand down the mandrel of the collet die to get increased bullet pull...smaller diameter equals more squeeze.

I'm shooting the 375 HH in an Encore pistol,Using Barnes 300gr TSX/300gr Solids over 65gr of reloader 15. I only neck size and I dont crimp, as of yesterday 6 reloads on each of the twenty cartridges. All have been guaged, and show no signes of case seperation, though they all now need to be trimmed. here's my question, why do I have such a velosity spread between my TSX at 1930fps and my solids at 2100fps with the same powder charge??

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
I'd say using a Lee collet die is a good idea for 375 H&H practice ammo, to increase case life. Regards collet dies not providing enough bullet pull, isn't that what crimping in the cannelure does? All proper 375 H&H bullets have a cannelure. Lots of folks sand down the mandrel of the collet die to get increased bullet pull...smaller diameter equals more squeeze.

Why not figure out the correct way to use your FL die so your practice ammo is sized exactly like your hunting ammo? I can understand a collet die if you never hunt with your .375.

My practice ammo is my hunting ammo. no need to full length size as I'm using it in the same weapon. I'm just wondering why the big difference in fps between the same weight bullets?

Would a neck size followed by a crimp be fit for (hunting) purpose?

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Why not figure out the correct way to use your FL die so your practice ammo is sized exactly like your hunting ammo? I can understand a collet die if you never hunt with your .375.

Understand this: I don't have the problem. drdlongshot, the original poster does. Direct your suggestions towards him. I don't own a 375 H&H Lee collet die. Yet. But I might buy one just to irk you. Less than $25 for the 2 die set won't put me in the poor house.

quote:

The Lee collet die really does not produce much grip on the bullet.

Yet another armchair expert expounds.

The "grip on the bullet" is a function of how small the inside diameter of the neck is made in resizing (assuming similar neck thickness and hardness). The Lee Collet die makes the neck whatever size the mandrel is. If the "grip" is insufficient, then the proper procedure is to hone the mandrel down as many thousandths as required to achieve whatever neck tightness is desired. This takes about two minutes with a drill press and a small piece of emory cloth. With the Lee Collet die, one can achieve whatever neck I.D.one wishes.

With a conventinal die, the neck I.D. is controlled by the diameter of the expander button, which might be larger or smaller than the mandrel in a Lee Collet die. If SR 4759 believes that one system results in tighter necks than another, then he simply doesn't understand how they work.

I happen not to have a Collet die for (either) my .375 H&H or my .375 H&H A.I. As I shoot neither any great volume, I probably won't bother to get one. However, if I did shoot them in any volume, then I would certainly buy a Collet die as it is a quite handy, efficient , and accurate way to resize (neck size) cases for non-springy actions.

Longshot, Heed logic: If you test-chamber all of your hunting ammunition, then it is irrelavant what method or die you used to resize the cases. Using cases that properly headspace is far preferable to suffering an unexpected head separation.

Airtoad, it is not uncommon at all for solids to build more pressure and velocity with the same charge that you are using on a soft. Solid bullets are generally manufacured in a way that makes then not conform to the bore lands and grooves as easy as a soft would so they build more pressure and velocity.

What McKay is trying to say is that solids are generally longer and SOMETIMES harder than softs.. and seating them to the same length means the solid consumes more case capacity than the soft, leading to higher pressure

thanks for further explaining.....

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

The Lee collet die really does not produce much grip on the bullet.

Yet another armchair expert expounds.

The "grip on the bullet" is a function of how small the inside diameter of the neck is made in resizing (assuming similar neck thickness and hardness). The Lee Collet die makes the neck whatever size the mandrel is. If the "grip" is insufficient, then the proper procedure is to hone the mandrel down as many thousandths as required to achieve whatever neck tightness is desired. This takes about two minutes with a drill press and a small piece of emory cloth. With the Lee Collet die, one can achieve whatever neck I.D.one wishes.

With a conventinal die, the neck I.D. is controlled by the diameter of the expander button, which might be larger or smaller than the mandrel in a Lee Collet die. If SR 4759 believes that one system results in tighter necks than another, then he simply doesn't understand how they work.

I happen not to have a Collet die for (either) my .375 H&H or my .375 H&H A.I. As I shoot neither any great volume, I probably won't bother to get one. However, if I did shoot them in any volume, then I would certainly buy a Collet die as it is a quite handy, efficient , and accurate way to resize (neck size) cases for non-springy actions.

Longshot, Heed logic: If you test-chamber all of your hunting ammunition, then it is irrelavant what method or die you used to resize the cases. Using cases that properly headspace is far preferable to suffering an unexpected head separation.

Stonecreek
My collet dies do not produce much of a grip on a seated bullet. Further more that is with thicker Remington brass. For some calibers I also have WW brass. The thinner WW brass produces even less friction. For some calibers I have reformed brass and even military brass. In attempting to increase the seating friction I have rotated the cases and used multiple squeezes of the collet. I eventually got lined necked for my trouble thus ensure the brass would fail sooner. I suppose if I was really determmined I could buy multiple collet dies or multiple mandrels for the several dozen rounds that I load. Then I would have to go through the monkey motion of polishing a mandrel for each thickness of brass that I use. Moreover I would have to look at changing the mandrel size as the necks work harden or annealing to maintain consistent grip. However in the interest of simplicity I don't bother.
I can make the brass both last and shoot well without a collet. And it always chambers in every rifle that I own. All it requires is a little bit of lube and a standard die. Sorry Stonecreek but I know how the dies work. I also understand their weaknesses. I tried them out over 20 years ago but NOW they are the current rage among semi-accuracy geeks. I also know that they are not made for every cartridge that I shoot.
So tell us again that you DON'T have a .375 collet die and how that supports your side of the story. My story is if I get them cheap and easy I have collet dies in a few varmint rounds especially if they are single shots.
But not for a .375 magazine rifle.
For a neck die I much prefer a bushing die.
You may resume expounding.

SR4759:

The thickness of the neck is irrelavent to the inside diameter of the sized neck -- it is going mirror the diameter of the collet -- or the expander button on a conventinal die. Just mashing harder on the collet die won't make the neck any tighter -- it will only squeeze it against the immovable mandrel harder. If you are able to squeeze the neck hard enough, then brass will begin to extrude into the small gaps between the collet petals, but it won't make the neck I.D. any smaller. Of course, when you squeeze this hard the surface of the collet where it contacts the shellholder will begin to deform and eventually ruin your collet. As I observed earlier, it appears that you don't fully comprehend just how it is that a collet die works.

Your argument that only conventional dies can provide sufficient neck tension is flawed on its face: If the expander button is too large, then neck tension will be too light. There is nothing about a conventional die that makes it innately provide more neck tension than a collet die.

Now, it is true that Lee ships their collet dies with mandrels that are generally at the maximum desirable size, as this is (1) what target and varmint shooters generally want and (2) mandrels are easily reduced in diameter but impossible to increase in diameter. Therefore, if a reloader simply uses as collet die as received, he may not acheive the neck ID he wishes; just as if he simply takes a conventional FL die and screws it down hard against the shellholder he may not achieve the headspace he wishes.

Dies are built to be within certain specifications, as are chambers. Almost every die needs to be tuned in one way or another to be compatable with the dimensions of a particular chamber. This is just as true of conventional dies as it is collet dies.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stonecreek:
SR4759:

The thickness of the neck is irrelavent to the inside diameter of the sized neck -- it is going mirror the diameter of the collet -- or the expander button on a conventinal die. Just mashing harder on the collet die won't make the neck any tighter -- it will only squeeze it against the immovable mandrel harder. If you are able to squeeze the neck hard enough, then brass will begin to extrude into the small gaps between the collet petals, but it won't make the neck I.D. any smaller. Of course, when you squeeze this hard the surface of the collet where it contacts the shellholder will begin to deform and eventually ruin your collet. As I observed earlier, it appears that you don't fully comprehend just how it is that a collet die works.
XXXXXX
It is easy to tell that you do not comprehend the differences in brass and how different thicknesses effect the use of a Lee collet die. The die is not magic. It can only squash the brass up against the mandrel in 4 places. The brass sort of holds it's shape but does not really take on the perfectly round shape of the mandrel. By applying more pressure and holding it a little while it give the brass a chance to creep and permanently deform. The collet die does not have the ability to make the brass yield past the elastic limit and then pull it back a small amount with a button. The collet die results in some spring back in the neck. This spring back varies with the hardness of the brass. This created variations in bullet pull and often causes light bullet pull.
With harder thinner WW brass for instance you have several problems with a collet die with a 6MM Remington.
A. The case neck thickness is tapered and is thicker at the base of the neck. The base gets sized the mouth is left loose.
B. The WW brass is harder and springs back more.
C. The WW brass is thinner and the fingers of the collet tend to bind against each other rather than sizing the neck.
zzzzzz


Your argument that only conventional dies can provide sufficient neck tension is flawed on its face: If the expander button is too large, then neck tension will be too light. There is nothing about a conventional die that makes it innately provide more neck tension than a collet die.

XXXX
This argument is totally ridiculous.
A conventional die can be set up for use without an expander and still be useful. The Lee die without the mandrel would not function in any real sense.
XXXX

My oh my. All of the emotion that any dissing of Lee products brings on. Lee certainly has a devoted following.

Understand, I have a number of Lee collet dies and I think the Lee factory crimp die is the best thing since peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. That said, the fact is that Lee collet dies, as they come from the factory do frequently produce reloads with loose bullets. Yea, I know, I can sand down the mandrel but the fact is that Lee probably should make the die right the first time.

Lee touts their collet dies as producing the most accurate ammo. I would say the ammo is most of the time as accurate as that produced by other dies but not the most accurate. I would say their major advantage is the fact you don't need to use lube with them. In fact not too long ago I had Lee collet dies that produced significantly less accurate ammo than a a Redding neck sizer die.

SR4759:

Thickness, hardness, and springback are all approximately equal when using either a conventional or a collet die, therefore are to be discounted.

If the expander ball is removed from the conventional die you will have a neck with an inside diameter equal to the ID of the die (minus the thickness of the brass, plus springback). Gee, I wonder what ID brass run through a collet die sans mandrel would have? Hmmm . . . I guess it would be . . . the . . . diameter of the compressed collet (minus the thickness of the brass, plus springback). Do you disagree?

Of course, I wouldn't use either type of die without its expander button or its mandrel as the inside diameter of the neck would vary with the thickness of the brass, wouldn't it?

quote:

the fact is that Lee collet dies, as they come from the factory do frequently produce reloads with loose bullets. Yea, I know, I can sand down the mandrel but the fact is that Lee probably should make the die right the first time.

As I noted in a previous post, it is quick and simple to reduce the mandrel diameter to produce tighter necks, but it is impossible to increase the mandrel diameter. It is hard to fault Lee for equipping their dies with maximum size mandrels to allow the handloader to make the mandrel whatever size is appropriate to the ammunition he is building. That's what handloading, as opposed to simply "reloading" is all about -- tailoring the ammunition to the gun in which it is to be used. For reloaders who are too "challenged" to reduce their mandrels by .002" or whatever is desired, I am told that Lee will sell you smaller mandrel.

In regard to conventional dies, the expander button typically would be difficult (though not imppossible) to reduce in diameter, and many die companies don't offer choices in expander button diameters -- you get whatever they make.

quote:

Gee, I wonder what ID brass run through a collet die sans mandrel would have? Hmmm . . . I guess it would be . . . the . . . diameter of the compressed collet (minus the thickness of the brass, plus springback). Do you disagree?

When the brass is not of uniform thickness the collet fingers can only compress the thickest part of the neck against the mandrel. So your collets produce non-uniform results and loose bullets. so tell me what diamter is produced by the thinnest part of the neck that the collet cannot compress. You don't know.

quote:

In regard to conventional dies, the expander button typically would be difficult (though not imppossible) to reduce in diameter, and many die companies don't offer choices in expander button diameters -- you get whatever they make.

This is such a total crock and twisting of the truth compared to your other argument that it deserves it's own response.

Are you telling me that before there were collet dies that you were not capable of spin polishing an expander button down to size?

You advocate polishing Lee collet mandrels but you cannot advocate polishing an expander button to size?

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Are you telling me that before there were collet dies that you were not capable of spin polishing an expander button down to size?
You advocate polishing Lee collet mandrels but you cannot advocate polishing an expander button to size?

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
I suppose if I was really determmined I could buy multiple collet dies or multiple mandrels for the several dozen rounds that I load. Then I would have to go through the monkey motion of polishing a mandrel for each thickness of brass that I use. Moreover I would have to look at changing the mandrel size as the necks work harden or annealing to maintain consistent grip. However in the interest of simplicity I don't bother.

No, I'm telling you that conventional expander buttons are difficult, but not impossible, to polish down. Lee mandrels, on the other hand, easily chuck into a drill and polish down a few thousandths with little effort. You, on the other hand, are the one telling me that polishing down ("monkey motion" as you refer to it) the expander/mandrel is something you refuse to do.

Bottom line: Either type of die will make the necks as tight as you wish; why insist that one will and one will not?