Alberta Canuck, you are a very clever man! And highly skilled too! It's an honor to 'know' you!

Interestingly, I had been thinking of 'engineering in' a usable 'donut' when we discussed this quite a while back. To me a 'donut' is a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
Alberta Canuck, you are a very clever man! And highly skilled too! It's an honor to 'know' you!

Interestingly, I had been thinking of 'engineering in' a usable 'donut' when we discussed this quite a while back. To me a 'donut' is a good thing.

.303Guy - It is I who am privileged to be here at AR. I very much appreciate being allowed to prate on about my experiences, opinions, etc., amongst such a fine world-wide colony of gentlemen. I learn at least something virtually every day I visit here. Vicarious experience which has been filtered through others' sharp eyes & agile brains is sometimes better than even personal hands-on experience, I think.

Thank you for the kind words, but don't under-rate your own contributions here. You have a very adept mind, capable hands, and do lots of things I wish I could still do.

Best wishes,

AC

Redding FLRS Type-S Bushing dies do not size the neck all the way to the shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I've gotten those and wondered where they came from.They occur when the neck in the chamber has just shot-out and brass fired in this chamber is resized or neck sized with a bushing die.Unfortunately, to solve the issue,you need a new barrel.

How the hell do you shoot out the neck area in the chamber!!

I meant the throat-same crap.

quote:

Unfortunately, to solve the issue,you need a new barrel.

Unless you happen to be inclined to paper patch!

I have only seen the external donuts when sizing down a parent case to a wildcat size using my Forming dies. Then running the full-length die makes it go away. No big deal

And,
necking up a .338 Lapua Magnum to .375/.338 Lapua Magnum also creates a donut,
because the thicker shoulder of the .338 becomes the lower neck of the .375/.338 Lapua Magnum.

Get your dies right and inside-ream the neck after initial fireforming, then FL size, and no more donuts.
Proceed as usual thereafter.
That would fix the 280 AI problem here too.

Just an update and to clear a few things up. The doughnut or buldge (on the outside of the case) didn't occur till after sizing, the fired brass had consistent neck OD.

The fired brass which I resized to eliminte the buldge produced 3 shot groups of .577" and .322" with 53.5 gr. IMR 4007SSC, 150 NOS CT, and FGMM210 primers, which is about the top of this gun's potential.

Thanks
BT

Thor 45. I'm not a qualified reloading professional,but have been reloading for hunting rifles for 50 years. With good bedding, bullets, barrels, and brass my hunting rifles consistently average around 1/2 moa out to 300 yds. I do not neck turn like the BR boys do. Instead I buy the best, most consistent brass I can acquire, preferring European brass if available for the caliber I'm loading for. After once firing I neck turn the cases, just cleaning up 75 or 80%, cutting slightly into the shoulder. Then, using a bushing die I partial neck size 80-90% of my neck to where I get approx. .002 of neck tension on the bullet. Allowing the remainder of the neck to remain unsized. Seat bullets with straight line seating dies. This has always produced consistent ammo for my hunting rifles, if not, and load development doesn't help, I have it re-barreled. PS> I refuse to shoot a hammer forged barrel. I readily admit to being anal about my groups.
.

PS. To clarify the above post, 1/2" groups refers to heavy barreled varmint rifles. For medium weight hunting rifles, loading Sierra, Hornady, or Nosler bullets I use 1" as a minimum criteria and if loading a bonded core bullet, say for a moose or African hunt, I go with 2" requirements.

I have reloaded for a lot of years. I never had the good fortune of having a mentor and I preceeded the internet by a lot of years. You might say my reloading knowledge is a monument to trial, error, and failure. Perhaps I'm lucky that I still have binocular vision and can count to ten. I have always reloaded for hunting and varminting rifles. And some of the things folks do, I find downright silly although I've tried just about just about every silly "idea" that's come down the trail. Perhaps, they may be needed if you are working brass for a super precision bench gun but for real world shooting,IMO, even with a highly accurate custom rifle, the shooter would be better off practicing.
I use F/L dies. And when I set them up, I set them up to F/L resize. Then I make a washer about the size of a dime to fit between the press and the lock ring on the die. I would put this around the threaded portion of the die when I threaded it into the press. Doing this, for years and years, I thought I was neck sizing. In the load books, it told you by backing off a F/L resizing die, you could neck size, etc, etc. Then some smart cookie decided that if they started calling that "partial full length resizing", they could sell another whole die and call it a neck sizing die. You know, boost sales, enhance profits, etc.
Anyway, after a couple of firings, there would be a definite little bulge (doughnut) around the bottem of the neck. A bullet would slip readidly into the neck and the round chambered well so I went happily on my way. In fact, I felt that the bulge helped align the cartridge in the chamber.
I trimmed the cases as needed and after several firings the cases might become hard to chamber, or if I was loading up a batch of actual hunting ammo, I would remove the washer and screw the die tight against the press to F/L resize the cases.
Then the washer would go back into place and on I'd go. I guess it's true that ignorance is bliss. Little did I know that I had a problem and there were all sorts of tools FOR SALE to correct the problem.
As far as neck turning is concerned. Many folks will tell you that neck turning is pointless on a factory rifle. I haven't found that to be true. When you clean up the neck, you improve the bullet pull and, as a rule, will get a measurable improvement in accuracy. In my case, I don't feel it's enough to neck turn hunting ammo. If I'm shooting a factory match, I'll be shooting neck turned brass; if I'm hunting, it's probably with unturned necks.

quote:

Then I make a washer about the size of a dime to fit between the press and the lock ring on the die. I would put this around the threaded portion of the die when I threaded it into the press. Doing this, for years and years, I thought I was neck sizing. In the load books, it told you by backing off a F/L resizing die, you could neck size, etc, etc. Then some smart cookie decided that if they started calling that "partial full length resizing", they could sell another whole die and call it a neck sizing die. You know, boost sales, enhance profits, etc.

If you`ve a cartridge with a bit of taper such as a 30-06 or 7x57 this works for neck sizing. The straight walled cartridges like the 223, or 308 though often get part sized when a FL die is used this way.
I use both types of die, FL and Neck, on different cartridges when neck sizing depending on their (the brass) shape.

I have the redding 3 die set for my 280AI. I have only ever used 280 brass and fire formed. The only time I have full length sized is for the inital loading. I only use the neck sizing die and have yet to see a doughnut like you have described. The only time I have ever seen one was when I was seating a different bullet weight and forgot to adjust it out and somewhat wrinkled the neck. I would suggest getting a neck sizing die and hopefully that will cure your problem.

Thanks guys. Swampworks I agree. The load work up is coming along and making progress so I believe that I'll be getting there and not need to replace the barrel.

Joe, I just moved and I am not set up yet but I seem to remember blackening a .223 case and running it thru a F/L die with it set up as I discribed without it touching. I'm not sure. But to each his own.
What's this I keep hearing about the neck dies causing excessive run out because of no support for the case??

quote:

What's this I keep hearing about the neck dies causing excessive run out because of no support for the case??

I`ve personally seen brass that showed more runout after neck sizing then it had prior, And a run through a FL die removed it so I tend to believe this is possible. My experiance with Lee collet dies though has never shown an increase in brass runout. Why I haven`t a clue.

I have also noticed that benchrest shooters are headed more and more to full lgt sizing and not neck sizing anymore. The reason is less runout, or so I am lead to believe. They also turn, wgt, measure, and pray to different deities then I...

What crap! Your dies must be cheap and junk. Benchrest shooters don't touch the case body.