Adams--

quote:

Why don't you just give up as you're no match for me.

Give you an A+ for listening to Stonecreek. You got you're correct. I never would have mentioned your spelling nor grammar if it weren't for your crap about your superior intelligence. I think you are a misguided cheesehead.

Some of our resident experts,ethecists, psychics, and spelling experts ought to take a good hard look at themselves and for the most part, have a big cup of STFU. I load for 64 cartriges, so what? That does not automatically make me the resident expert. The guy comes on here and asks a technical question and immediately has his shooting ability and ethics called into question with no other information given, to have made that call! Last year, I attended a 5 day, long range shooting school put on by Daryl Holland. I don't want to hunt at extreme ranges, but I wanted to learn how to be a better shot, how to properly dope wind, etc. I learned a lot, but Buddy, I was surrounded by shooters that could shoot the eyelashes off a mouse at 1000 yds with a 15 mph crosswind, and guess what? They look just like you and me, not one of them had a sign pasted on them cataloging their skill level, So where do some of you get off attacking someone you know nothing about? This guy might have been in that class! What logic did you use in reading his initial question, that allowed you to surmise that he is a poser? And then a few others dogpile in. It is no wonder that the quality and friendliness of this site has deteriorated so much in the last few years, and why so many knowlegeable people rarely post here anymore, and I know quite a few that don't. We all need to start showing a bit more civility and a lot less rabid criticism around here, everyone can always learn something new, but not if the info pool goes stagnant because we run good people off. Some of you need to step back and take a good look at yourselves and help make this a better place. Lee.

ABSOLUTELY, Lee, Right on, You said it...I TOTALLY AGREE...This kind of behavior seems to be De rigueur in todays world and in/on many forums, school yards, college campuses, on line, in the media and work places...civility has gone out the window in favor of "Modernspeak". That 11th century Catholic Bishop said it about the Cathars in Spain..."kill them all, God knows his own"...that would solve the problem and spite the face.

The "art of Disputation" has been replaced by the "art of Disgusting Verbiage"...and it's only going to get worse and more deadly as the fight for food, water and living space quickly approaches...and in this case BOTH sides have spiraled down to acting childish and churlish.

Yes, this poor guy comes in here and I pick on him. Go back and see who started calling me names etc before I picked on him. If any of us "bought" everything someone posts we'd all drive Chevies and be married to the same woman.

Carpetman, correct me if I am wrong. Are you not a big proponent of using the .223 as an all-round deer rifle? This is not a challenge, but I think you are the guy I am thinking of. As I recall, you were given plenty of static over it and some was less than respectful. I agree with you under many circumstances, but I still just go ahead and use my .257 Bob as I know that it is a better choice for ME, just as you might choose your .223 under the exact same circumstances and I would not argue with you. I just figure, as a guy that has been given "The Business" about your opinions, you might be a bit more considerate towards another. Please don't take this as a shot at you, I am just saying that before we hang someone, we at least ought to get the facts out in a trial! This place used to be a lot more tolerant of different opinions in the past, and I wish we would return to that. We all need to leave the snide comments and name calling to the Political Forum where, apparently, that is acceptable. Lee.

lee440--You are correct, I am a proponent of using the .223 on deer, especially youth using them. Personally I mostly use a .243. Why would I possibly find fault with your using a .257 Bob, fine cartridge? Considerate towards others hmmm--guy starts the name calling, calling me a dumazz etc. Why, who knows, but I did tell him I disagreed with some of his figures. I'm supposed to buy into all his bs and be considerate of the jerk after he responds to me this way? Did you read how the exchange between us came down? Doesn't seem like you went back and read the order of things. Who said I assumed from his original post that he was a poser or anything else? I will say I've ran across more than a few that seem to think they have a "MAGNUM" and it will do earth shattering things--the old hit em anywhere theory. Compensates for bad hits etc. I didn't voice this, but did wonder if he was in that category.

Carpetman, I will respond to your last post in saying you were doing fine until Adams vented his frustration toward Stonecreek by calling him a dumbass, and I have to say, if anyone on here were to challenge my ethics publically, I probably would have used worse terms than that. I did not see anything in that post referring to you, but it appeared that you came to SC's defense and made the uncalled for crack about reversing the scope. .Thats when you guys went south. You gotta admit, you took the shot.
Personally, I believe that if you can't make a 400 yard shot under good conditions, you don't have any business out hunting high country elk, You need to put in more time learning your rifle and improving your skills and I would bet that you would agree with me on that! Let's just put this to rest and hope we can all do better next time. Lee.

First off thank you Lee and Nonagonagin, your statements are correct. I'm not claiming innocence. Nonagonagin gave me advice early on to ignore these guys and I tried and figured they'd also get the message but it didn't stop there. So I did lay into two these two guys and just let it fly. Probably shouldn't have done that but I asked a couple legitimate questions only to be harassed.

I try to live my life by several philosophies which I believe I mentioned all of them. First non of us has any control in life except how we react, act to situations that come before us in life. Treat others as I'd like to be treated. And last if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. But I failed in all of these with two guys as I thought I could teach them a lesson. But I was wrong and maybe went about incorrectly.

Carpetman you still are crying innocence. Here was your response to Lee.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Yes, this poor guy comes in here and I pick on him. Go back and see who started calling me names etc before I picked on him. If any of us "bought" everything someone posts we'd all drive Chevies and be married to the same woman.

Quit whining and take reasonability for your actions. You do need to read these posts again and see who started picking on who.

Your first statement on this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Adams, I can't answer your questions. You are much more technical in your hunting than what I am. But I do have a question for you. Is 600 yards your max range for shooting an elk with a .300 Win Mag? If not what is and what max range do you place on the 30-06?

My first thoughts were this guy has over 2500 posts on a reloading site and he's asking a question comparing the 300 win mag to the 30-06. First off I know this is a controversial subject as the 30-06 has many, many loyal followers. Some of which don't like Magnums. Not sure why, they are just different calibers of rifles of which there are many. Non better than another but all serving their purpose. But I gave you the benefit of the doubt and took my time and honestly answered your questions even though I thought you were baiting me in. Using common data and calculations I answered your question the best I could and this was your response.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Adams---Your opinion of max elk range of a 300 Win mag is not loaded question, but same question about 30-06 is? Your figures may all be true, I personally don't think the 300 is 200 yards ahead of the 06. Even if all the figures are true doesn't mean you can put the bullet in right place. The 100% sure of killing shot you mentioned does not exist. You NEVER know (100%) regardless of circumstances until you have pulled the trigger.

After I gave you my best opinion, which is just my opinion you started in by telling me I was wrong and the .300 win mag is not 200 yards ahead of the 30-06. These numbers came straight from Federal's calculations. You want to dispute it give me some numbers and explanation. Don't just tell me I'm wrong. Then you go on to say that even if all these number are correct I need to put the bullet in the right place. Really...... Now you're telling my I can't shoot. Then you go on about 100% killing shot not existing. You took a statement out of context and turned it around on me. Everyone knows that animals sometimes make it through what should be a killing shot.

Then I posted at the end of a long statement but hadn't starting picking on you yet.

quote:

Originally posted by adams:

So those that don't like what I've said to bad pizz off. The rest of you of good people thanks for your input. But sincerely God Bless you all!

Then you replied with this.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Adams, my "doesn't mean you can put the bullet in the right place" was not an affront to your shooting ability. Can you control the wind for example?

I don't know what you're talking about in the first part of statement. But the last is can I can control the wind. Really..... Can I control the wind. I'm not God so no. But I can control what wind I shoot in. For me not gusting winds. Only steady winds 10 mph or less or my shot choice drops to 300 yards. But again you're putting me down. So after this I just let you have it.

Your not the innocent guy your claiming. And if you can't see your way off base you have a problem in self recognition. I didn't start this you did. When I let loose I went against all my principals and let you have it. But I still think you deserved it however I feel bad for breaking my principals. Not bad for you but I let myself down.

Next stonycreek. You are way worse than Carpetman. How come no response from you just went quiet. I would lay into you but you are way beyond help in your thought processes. I hope both of you have learned a lesson in life but I'm guessing not.

If you both were to admit you were out of line and apologized I would return the gesture but I don't see that happening but hope I'm wrong.

Again thank you Lee and Nonagonagin for bringing some common sense into this ridiculous thread.

God bless you alll!!!!

Lee--How was my attempt at humor about reversing the scope in any way shape form or fashion coming to SC's defense? Adams first started the naming calling with me calling me a dumbazz and letting me know about his superior intelligence.There was no doubt he was calling me a dumbazz--not SC. Nothing I have posted had anything to do with SC. That's between those two.

Adams I admit I did use the wrong choice of words when I said "doesn't mean you can put the bullet in the right place". Should have been and was intended "doesn't mean a person can put the bullet in the right place". It was not an attack on your shooting skills.

quote:

Originally posted by adams:
When this thread is done I'll be gone from this site.

Certainly a tragic loss for civil discourse.

But please do us the honor or returning, at least briefly, after your hunt to describe your success in taking your elk at 600 yards (provided, of course, that your efforts are not spoiled by velocity variations from variable temperatures when using IMR 7828 precipitating point of impact dispersion sufficient to cause your miss. Such variations, being both difficult to quantify and qualify are, after all, just about the only thing you need to worry about.)

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
Last year, I attended a 5 day, long range shooting school put on by Daryl Holland. I don't want to hunt at extreme ranges, but I wanted to learn how to be a better shot, how to properly dope wind, etc. I learned a lot, but Buddy, I was surrounded by shooters that could shoot the eyelashes off a mouse at 1000 yds with a 15 mph crosswind

And if you were to ask those experts you were surrounded by about shooting at an elk at 600 yards under field conditions with no benchrest, no wind flags, no sighter shots, with a hunting bullet rather than a target bullet, and at an estimated rather than measured range, I suspect that most of them would tell you that you're going to miss. There is no better teacher than experience.

Stonehead you are a stonehead. To bad we aren't face to face cause you wouldn't talk to me that way. Fuc U. You are an aSS hole. To bad your reloading and shooting abilities are so poor you can't consistently shoot off anything but a bench of which sounds like you can't do that very good either. I hope they kick you off this site. They should.

Carpetman. You still are still a dumb aSS. You can't even see how you started the bullsh1t you did. Still crying oh he started it.

I'm out of here.

To the rest of God Bless!

Adams--A moose has very large lungs, thus very high wind capacity. Often when shot through the lungs, they will stand for a pretty good while before falling. They'll last much longer than a deer. That deer you shot through the lungs and ran 800 yards before someone else shot must have been Hercules. There was blood so apparently you hit it somewhere. Could be the lung shot was made by the guy that tagged it.

Adams you did ask me a direct question I have not answered. Basically for data that the .300 win mag is not 200 yards ahead of an 06. First off, I have had many experienced riflemen tell me the 300 fps difference doesn't exist too often--they are much closer. Disregard that and lets use the book figures. My Hornady 3rd edition with the 180 grain bullet you used lists max of 3100 fps for the .300 and 2800 fps for the 06. 300 fps is about what a good bow will do---more energy as arrows usually weigh more than 180 grains. So to an 06 add the power of an arrow to get the .300 and that gives you a 1/3 increase? Forget that, it's not in the book. Lets go back to Hornady figures. The 180 at 3100 fps is listed as 1414 foot pounds at 600 yards. Not the over 1500 at 825 you mentioned. So the .300 gets 1500 (or over) at 500 yards with 1690. The 06 has 1599 at 400 yards. Not 200 yards difference in my books. Using your 1500 ft lb figure the .300 doesn't make 600 yards.

You guys sure like to argue over the most trivial bullshit.
Actually the OP had a valid question whether or not you agree with the distances he wants to be prepared to shoot his question was a good question.
I get so tired of the old farts on here that are so stuck in "one way and that's my way" that you guys will run everyone off of this site then all you'll have is each other to agree with.
Stonecreek I know you have the knowledge to address the original post but arguing is so much easier.
I'm disappointed in all of you, really.

quote:

Originally posted by adams:
Stonehead you are a stonehead. To bad we aren't face to face cause you wouldn't talk to me that way. Fuc U. You are an aSS hole. To bad your reloading and shooting abilities are so poor you can't consistently shoot off anything but a bench of which sounds like you can't do that very good either. I hope they kick you off this site. They should.

Here is a PM that I received from Adams:

Hey Stonehead: I would really like to meet in you in person. I won't be that far from texas before my hunt. How about you and I get together?

Not quite sure what to make of it, particularly when taken in tandem with the above post. I thought I'd put it out there for the AR community to advise on before responding. Henly is not a very big place, so I'm sure he could find me if he tried. After all, he only has to get within 600 yards, right?

My statement above still stands.

and Stonecreek that PM is vanilla pudding compared to the outright death threats and psychotic ramblings of "Idahoshartshooter" who prowled these pages for years threatening people.
I still think you could have addressed this guys question instead of going on an insulting attack, just my opinion. Now its a huge mess and some kind of tit for tat pissing contest

Yup, I've seen similar threads on these forums turn into a shit-show when a certain select few show up with their wisdom on killing critters in mountains requiring longer than normal blind to feeder distances. Most of these experts hail from mountainous terrain areas of Texas, Wisconsin, Carolina's and Minnesota.

The man is offering you a chance to back up your alligator mouth without hiding behind a keyboard and you come whining on here like a little girl ? I guarantee if he went to Henly, he would have to search long and hard to find you. They got a saying, "Man up or Shut Up", but I am pretty sure you will do neither. You could do the right thing though, apologize , and earn the respect of everybody here. You were out of line, no ifs, ands or buts about it. I think Adams would man up and accept your apology too, so why don't you lead the way? Maybe we could get a new trend started on here... Civil Discourse!!

quote:

Maybe we could get a new trend started on here... Civil Discourse!!