I'm using 180 Accubonds and have run a lot of tests using IMR 4350 H 4831 IMR 7828 and H 1000. I've been doing my tests from 55 - 65 degrees. I wanted to do my testing in temps from 30 -50 degrees but our weather went from sub 30's right to 60's. Unreal. I've also did a lot of off the lands testing ranging from .03 - .08.

IMR 7828 is winning out in my barrel. 76 grains with .03 of lands producing .637 in 3 shot groups and .04 producing .402 3 shot groups with average speed of 3110. SD has ranged from 3104 to 3122 but enough testing on this yet. I going to try .035 of the lands and change powder by .2 grain each way to see if I can get them any tighter but hard to beat .402 inch groups.

My questions/concerns my hunting temps will be mainly from 20 - 40 degrees. I have no knowledge on IMR 7828 temperature sensitivity. 50 - 70 fps loss is not a big deal in inches out to 400 but a little more from 400 - 600. I'm more concerned about how my groups will open up with that decrease in velocity.

Any body have any experience or educated guesses how many fps I might lose and how much groups might open up? Also I could be hunting at temps around 0 (not very likely) and if that happens I'm guessing I would have to limit my shots to 300 yards but just guessing. I will be able to do this testing next fall/winter but I have a NM elk hunt in mid October so asking because of this hunt.

The variation in POI caused by a 50-70 fps variation in muzzle velocity is insignificant compared to the plethora of variables involved in shooting at 400 to 600 yards. Wind, air density, and range misjudgement ALL are much more significant.

In short, shooting at an elk at more than 400 yards is unsporting, counterproductive, and simply foolish. But an elk is a big target so you'll probably hit it -- somewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
The variation in POI caused by a 50-70 fps variation in muzzle velocity is insignificant compared to the plethora of variables involved in shooting at 400 to 600 yards. Wind, air density, and range misjudgement ALL are much more significant.

In short, shooting at an elk at more than 400 yards is unsporting, counterproductive, and simply foolish. But an elk is a big target so you'll probably hit it -- somewhere.

You totally missed the question. Questioning my ethics and calling my judgment foolish, LMAO. I think your reply is quite foolish. I am Mr. ethical. You have no idea of my shooting skills. But yes under perfect circumstances for me and if I'm 100% sure I'm going to make a killing shot I will take one at 600.

Again you totally missed the question I am very aware that 50 -70 fps difference will make no difference in inches to 400 yards and only 2 inches at 600 yards at an 8000 ft elevation.

My question was how much do you think my group might open up as the speed change and vibration in the barrel will change. Also fps I would loose given the temps in my post as I am unfamiliar with IMR 7828.

The test data that I have seen says 7828 loses about 1-1.5 fps per degree F. There were some good threads on Snipers Hide and Long Range Hunting on this. Cartridge and elevation where the testing was done made a difference, understandably.

I tried 7828 in two 300 Win Mags and I couldn't get anywhere near the max loads/velocity without pressure issues. RL26 won out.

In my .340 Weatherby, though, 7828 has been outstanding.

Jeremy

quote:

You totally missed the question.

Nope, I got the question alright, and answered it, stating that the grouping difference caused by a 50-75 fps velocity spread would be negligible (particularly compared to other factors in shooting at 600 yards.)

You just failed to understand the answer, which more globally responded to the juvenile concept of shooting at an elk at 600 yards. Grow up, kid.

Thanks Jeremy for the information that gives me some idea what to expect in speed drops.



Stoneycreek you just threw out 50-75 fps with no relevance to any temperatures. You had no intention of trying to answer the question. Your main reason for posting was to let me know that shooting at 400 - 600 yards at elk was unethical in your opinion. Very Obvious in your post. My guess is that you know nothing about long range shooting.


But here's some good advice for you little boy. If you don't have something nice to say, say nothing at all.

I apologize. I now understand that the question is regarding how much velocity variation can be expected with IMR 7828 due to temperature changes and how much that might effect POI.

The answer is that there will be just exactly enough for you to blame hitting the elk in the hind leg on velocity variations due to temperature changes.

Actually...you need to go to the powder maker for the data you are looking for, and to the Long Range and Varminting forums for similar information...you will only get second/third/ninth hand info on forums but maybe more actual "field" experience. Many of the latest digital range finders have internal data bases with that information...My old split image range finder doesn't cut it at todays ranges.

Besides when you start going beyond maybe 500 yds you start running into conditions you can't determine from your position. Temp changes, wind changes, boil changes, and even earth's magnetic changes that you CAN'T toss into your algorithm no matter how you wish and/or cogitate.

Again...Stonecreek...I have to take umbrage with your response...Granted a few times a year hunter(maybe 75% of all hunters) with factory "everything" are lucky to hit the ground 10 ft in front of them,(a bit exaggerated, but you get the point) but todays long rang hunter/varminters with all the sophisticated tactical optical equipment, tuned ammo, rifle AND shooter, are very capable of taking even small deer or varmints out to 1000 yds plus.

I have small to medium cal rifles that can put 3(or a few more) rounds into a quarter inch and or slightly smaller hole and I've taken ground squirrels out beyond ~600 yds plus before the velo drops below the sound barrier and they go all wiggly. If I can take rats that size at that distance WITHOUT digital help, I think I can put the bullet where I WANT IT on something the size of an ELK without much trouble...not to mention all the U-tube vids out there showing just HOW it is done.

Today's technology in optics and camera/video's is just phenomenal...I use a vid camera the size of cigarette pack plugged into my laptop to view targets out to ~150 yds and save data/pics so I don't have to keep walking back and forth...and my technology is SEVERAL years old and from the "cheep" side of the isle.

Adams...you seem to know "whatthehellandwhy" when it comes to long range shooting and you should know by now just how opinionated and crude AR can be...it's very difficult to extract good information in this type of milieu and spitting back is just a waste of time....there are just too many "less" defensive/offensive forums out there as good or better data which is too bad because AR has some very knowledgeable experts in all the hunting/shooting fields.


Generalized statements just keep spitting on our boots...we know what we mean, but stating it can be a bit dicey and mine seem to come out all wrong anyway.

Good Hunting

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

You totally missed the question.

Nope, I got the question alright, and answered it, stating that the grouping difference caused by a 50-75 fps velocity spread would be negligible (particularly compared to other factors in shooting at 600 yards.)

You just failed to understand the answer, which more globally responded to the juvenile concept of shooting at an elk at 600 yards. Grow up, kid.

Good answer!

Thanks for all the input Nonagonagin. Part of my reason for trying to find out velocity loss is I need to order my CDS from Leupold. Because of weather going right from 20's to 60 did not allow proper testing with this new rifle, powder, bullet, combination. I will be getting to the guide's place in NM a couple of days early so I will have that time for final testing out to those distances before hunting. If the cds is not right on I will know how to adjust. According to the guide most shooting distances at elk start at 350 yds and he has a place to test past 600. Again thanks. I will take your advice to ignore the un-knowledgeable.

Adams i shot 7828 in our 6 243s. the data i have ranges from -20 to 95 degrees.the greatest spread is 104 fps. the group sizes are almost identical at 100 yds.the poi changes less than 1/4 in.

I have tried the powders listed above in my 300 win mags.I have not played with them long enough to come to any definitive conclusion but I managed high velocity, no pressure issues and a 5 shot one hole group at 200yds with Vit 560/ 180gr TSX.

Bottom line is it gets you the most in velocity.

Adams, I can't answer your questions. You are much more technical in your hunting than what I am. But I do have a question for you. Is 600 yards your max range for shooting an elk with a .300 Win Mag? If not what is and what max range do you place on the 30-06?

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Adams, I can't answer your questions. You are much more technical in your hunting than what I am. But I do have a question for you. Is 600 yards your max range for shooting an elk with a .300 Win Mag? If not what is and what max range do you place on the 30-06?

Right now 600 is my max range I feel comfortable shooting at. I had a 300wsm previously that was just to heavy to carry around but was very good to 600yds. I don't have any place to shoot beyond theses distances near me so that it is why 600 is my limit. Working up a new rifle takes a lot of time and I'm not sure I will have the time to be proficient enough to shoot to 600 by this Oct. for my elk hunt as I'm only in the preliminary stages of finding what the rifle likes and now temps are much higher than I like to work my loads which is also going to limit my time.


The second part of your question is a loaded question. This is a very subjective question and there will be a million different opinions out there so this is just my opinion. So in this example I will use the 06 with 180 gr. Nosler accubond. Nosler claims there bullets expand properly from 3200 - 1800 fps. Also using a common number for energy needed to kill elk of 1500 ft.lbs. (again very subjective) 8000 feet of elevation. Temperature of 30 degrees. A bullet speed of 2750 the 06 should be good out 625 yards on the button carrying 1500 lbs of energy and a bullet speed of 1940.

Using all the same data from the above example using a 300 win mag at 3050 fps. At 600 yards the 300 will carry 1960 ft lbs and a bullet speed of 2200 fps. The 300 win mag would be good to 825 yards carrying 1500 lbs of energy and a bullet speed of 1940.

There are bullets that can be used to extend these distances. The scenarios of bullets and calibers are many.

Adams---Your opinion of max elk range of a 300 Win mag is not loaded question, but same question about 30-06 is? Your figures may all be true, I personally don't think the 300 is 200 yards ahead of the 06. Even if all the figures are true doesn't mean you can put the bullet in right place. The 100% sure of killing shot you mentioned does not exist. You NEVER know (100%) regardless of circumstances until you have pulled the trigger.

Adams:
I think you're trying to make simple things way too complicated.

Get your load worked up and practice shooting is a whole lot more important than worrying about temp differences.

8000' is NOT very high altitude, at least not for those of us that live out here in it. Might be for those of you living at sea level.

Your range estimations and shooting ability will be much more important than the little bit of temp changes.

George

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Adams---Your opinion of max elk range of a 300 Win mag is not loaded question, but same question about 30-06 is? Your figures may all be true, I personally don't think the 300 is 200 yards ahead of the 06. Even if all the figures are true doesn't mean you can put the bullet in right place. The 100% sure of killing shot you mentioned does not exist. You NEVER know (100%) regardless of circumstances until you have pulled the trigger.

Maybe you can't put a bullet in the right place but please speak for yourself and not me. But I'll agree 100% sure killing shot dosen't exist as one time about 40 years ago I put a shot through a whitetail's lungs at 50 yards using a 06 off a rest and I know the shot was perfect. But after trailing that animal bleeding out both sides onto the snow for 800 yards then shot by another hunter. Only rifle loss I've ever had and I've shot so many animals I could never count them all.

I figured your question was just a test of my knowledge to see if I knew what I was talking about, and I do. I guess I'm pretty much done with site. To bad these sites have to be this way. We all have different knowledge levels. I have lots to learn from some and nothing from others, but those with lessor knowledge I don't put down. Nor do I come onto to these sites and tell people their unethical because of my lack of knowledge. If I don't have good input I keep my mouth shut. But there are those who have never grown up, think they know everything about everything. I just lmao of at these kind of people and feel a little sorry for them.

Oh and my numbers are right on for the .300 win mag and the 06. And the 300 win mag is definitely 200 yards a head of the 06 given the average numbers I used. (But these are numbers) Of course there will be those out there that will say they can shoot a 180 grain bullet of an 06 at 2900 or 3000 fps in a 24" barrel. Maybe, but if you are you are way over pressure. People can say the same thing about their 300 win mags oh I can shoot 180 grain bullets at 3300 or 3400 fps. Just stupidity.

The elk hunt I am going on in New Mexico is 8000 ft that is why I used that number. Of course I know many other states people are hunting at 10,000 maybe a little more. But what does that do to these numbers, nothing when it comes to inches. Shooting a 300 win mag at my given numbers at 0 elevation compared to shooting at 10,000 ft in 30 weather makes a 2.1" difference at 400 yards. That's right 2.1"

So those that don't like what I've said to bad pizz off. The rest of you of good people thanks for your input. But sincerely God Bless you all!

Adams, my "doesn't mean you can put the bullet in the right place" was not an affront to your shooting ability. Can you control the wind for example?

quote:

Originally posted by adams:
Right now 600 is my max range I feel comfortable shooting at. I had a 300wsm previously that was just to heavy to carry around but was very good to 600yds. I don't have any place to shoot beyond theses distances near me so that it is why 600 is my limit.

I do a lot of shooting on my personal range which is set up for a maximum of 800 yards (and can be extended to 1,000 yards if desired.) It has a permanent bench situated under a nice shade tree. I also have benchrest-style shooting rests from which I shoot. My "extended" range rifles are heavy barrel target models with 20X scopes. They typically group well under 1/2 MOA at 100 yards.

I've been shooting and reloading for more than a half-century -- longer than Adams has been alive, I suspect. I currently load for around 40 calibers and use about that many different powders in the process. I haven't fired a factory round other than a .22 Rimfire since sometime in the Nixon administration. Even with all of these advantages compared to shooting under field conditions, I would not be confident of putting my first shot into an elk's approximately one-foot square vital area.

While I certainly agree with Nonagonagin that it is possible to hit something like a prairie dog at 600 yards (and have done so on frequent occasions), a prairie dog or ground squirrel ain't an elk. And you don't (or shouldn't) get a half-dozen "sighter" shots on an elk, either.

Since an animal a third of a mile away usually won't be able to tell what is happening or where it is coming from when being shot at and missed, they typically just stand there puzzled, looking around for the source of the odd sound of the buzzing bullet they hear. I laughed at the blunder the film editor of one of those "long range hunting" TV shows made once. They only show the shot that hits the (elk, deer, bear, kudu, etc.), not the ones that miss. In filming the one killing shot (or at least the shot after which the animal fell), the camera inadvertently pulled back enough for the viewer to see the pile of twenty or so cartridge cases on the ground beside the triumphant shooter's tripod rest.

I guess that given plenty of sighter shots and enough ammunition, most people can at least hit an elk at 600 yards or more. That neither makes it an appropriate thing to do, nor is it in any meaningful way made more appropriate by estimating the additional POI displacement potentially caused by changes in velocity due to temperature variations.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by adams:
Right now 600 is my max range I feel comfortable shooting at. I had a 300wsm previously that was just to heavy to carry around but was very good to 600yds. I don't have any place to shoot beyond theses distances near me so that it is why 600 is my limit.

I do a lot of shooting on my personal range which is set up for a maximum of 800 yards (and can be extended to 1,000 yards if desired.) It has a permanent bench situated under a nice shade tree. I also have benchrest-style shooting rests from which I shoot. My "extended" range rifles are heavy barrel target models with 20X scopes. They typically group well under 1/2 MOA at 100 yards.

I've been shooting and reloading for more than a half-century -- longer than Adams has been alive, I suspect. I currently load for around 40 calibers and use about that many different powders in the process. I haven't fired a factory round other than a .22 Rimfire since sometime in the Nixon administration. Even with all of these advantages compared to shooting under field conditions, I would not be confident of putting my first shot into an elk's approximately one-foot square vital area.

While I certainly agree with Nonagonagin that it is possible to hit something like a prairie dog at 600 yards (and have done so on frequent occasions), a prairie dog or ground squirrel ain't an elk. And you don't (or shouldn't) get a half-dozen "sighter" shots on an elk, either.

Since an animal a third of a mile away usually won't be able to tell what is happening or where it is coming from when being shot at and missed, they typically just stand there puzzled, looking around for the source of the odd sound of the buzzing bullet they hear. I laughed at the blunder the film editor of one of those "long range hunting" TV shows made once. They only show the shot that hits the (elk, deer, bear, kudu, etc.), not the ones that miss. In filming the one killing shot (or at least the shot after which the animal fell), the camera inadvertently pulled back enough for the viewer to see the pile of twenty or so cartridge cases on the ground beside the triumphant shooter's tripod rest.

I guess that given plenty of sighter shots and enough ammunition, most people can at least hit an elk at 600 yards or more. That neither makes it an appropriate thing to do, nor is it in any meaningful way made more appropriate by estimating the additional POI displacement potentially caused by changes in velocity due to temperature variations.

Here is a perfect example of the people I was speaking about. Mr. Know it all. He's been reloading longer than I've been alive although he doesn't know how old I am. Dosen't know anything about me or my reloading, shooting skills, knowledge of long range shooting, etc. But puts out this post. your a dumba$$.

Just because you reload for .40 calibers makes you no expert on long range shooting and obviously your not. So why don't you just shut about it and lend the very limited skills you do have.

Adams, you don't have a range that has enough distance. No problem. You can simulate a longer range. Just reverse your scope and things will appear further away. Doing it that way, I could possibly take a 600 yard elk--on 6x it would be a 100 yard shot, but look like 600 yards. Have to be sure and bring my thermometer to know the temperature and an altimeter or something to know the elevation.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Adams, you don't have a range that has enough distance. No problem. You can simulate a longer range. Just reverse your scope and things will appear further away. Doing it that way, I could possibly take a 600 yard elk--on 6x it would be a 100 yard shot, but look like 600 yards. Have to be sure and bring my thermometer to know the temperature and an altimeter or something to know the elevation.

Here's another dumba$$ comment from another dumba$$. I said I did have 600 yard range in my earlier post that's why I feel comfortable to that range. Can't remember back that far do to your Alzheimer's. lmao.

Temperature, your not smart enough to know that shot groups change with temperature and I'll know exactly how gun shoots at different temperatures. Or smart not to know that the scope is set to an elevation. Do need a wind gauge though.

LMAO at your stupidity. This thread just keeps getting better. You want spar words with me I love it. I know what my IQ is and I'm guessing just a little more than yours, lmao. But keep it coming I'm having a lot of fun with this.

I would tell you to turn your scope around but you'd probably shoot yourself.

Adams, I can tell by the way you contradict yourself you have a high IQ. Can't remember what you have said. You said you don't have any place to shoot beyond this distance. (can't shoot beyond that distance until you get to your guides place). Mentioned it twice. That was what I answered. You also said 100% sure kill shots, then told us about one you missed 40 years ago(and how many others in between?)You told us your done with this place and keep posting. I never called you any names but now you call me a dumbazz---you are full of yourself and other stuff.

Saw this trophy elk and ranged it and it was 600 yards and one foot. Took temperature and elevation readings and I was only good to exactly 600 yards. So I dug a one foot hole to lower my elevation and give me the power for 600 yards and one foot. Shot the elk and dropped it on the spot of course. But I had miscalculated rather mismeasured. I had dug my hole and inch too deep. That extra decrease in elevation had given me a power surge and blown the elk to smithereens, not a trace of it to be found, or I'd post pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Adams, I can tell by the way you contradict yourself you have a high IQ. Can't remember what you have said. You said you don't have any place to shoot beyond this distance. That was what I answered. You also said 100% sure kill shots, then told us about one you missed 40 years ago(and how many others in between?)You told us your done with this place and keep posting. I never called you any names but now you call me a dumbazz---you are full of yourself and other stuff.

Hey Mr. Alzhiemr's I said I didn't have a place to shoot beyond 600. Go back and read old man. %100 kill shot I did make that statement and should have said %100 shot placement because even perfect shot placement does not grantee a kill. And guys like you will take words and them turn them around but the intention of my statement was that I would not take a shot unless I was 100% sure. This true of every shot I ever take bow or gun and you won't find anyone more ethical then me. Many just as ethical but not more. I've passed more P&Y's because I wasn't getting perfect angles that I wanted than you've ever had the opportunity to take. I can say this because of where I hunt which is the B&C capitol of the world for Whitetail. No other place even comes close. I don't even shoot Whitetails under 160 any more. I'm out of wall space.

I never said I missed 40 years ago. I said I shot a Whitetail at 50 yards off a rest through the lungs that bleed out both side for 800 yards which was then shot by another hunter. The only thing that comes to mind is that the bullet did not expand and put a pencil hole through the deer. I have no other explanations. Who knows what happened but I know the shot was perfectly placed.

You should go back and read before spouting off. I was totally joking about the scope thing so please don't turn your scope around, I don't want you hurting yourself.

Just keeps getting better!!! lmao

Adams--How did that whitetail get on the rest?

Adams for sure you are good. Be careful you don't go too long range on that New Mexico hunt. Go shooting an elk that is in Arizona or Colorado, your New Mexico license and tag wont cover you.

Yes indeed, twice you alluded to not having more than 600 yards---why else would I tell you how to handle it?

For sure perfect shot placement doesn't grantee a kill. Never heard of an elk getting a grant.

Adams were you previously on this forum under the name Idahosharpshooter? If not, any relation to him?

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Adams for sure you are good. Be careful you don't go too long range on that New Mexico hunt. Go shooting an elk that is in Arizona or Colorado, your New Mexico license and tag wont cover you.

Yes indeed, twice you alluded to not having more than 600 yards---why else would I tell you how to handle it?

For sure perfect shot placement doesn't grantee a kill. Never heard of an elk getting a grant.

Yes I am good. I have been very blessed for which I thank God.

I might shoot one in Arizona as I'll be right near the border. The guide will have to sneak it back across the border. lmao.

Your 600 statement makes no sense at all. I never reference shooting further than that and I commonly shoot that distance. What the he!! are you talking about.

elk getting a grant. what the he!! are you talking about? You need to start drinking much later in the day.

I was previously on this site as adams in the early to mid 2000's but they have me as a newbie not sure why all my history is gone. I was hoping to re-connect with Paul B who I'm afraid has passed away as I sent him an email that was delivered but never responded to. I've seen his posts as late as 2010 another site but nothing later. Now that guy knew what he was talking about and wasn't full bull. But know no one by the name idahosharpshooter.

When this thread is done I'll be gone from this site. Guy's like you and stonecreek can give your know it all stuipd comments and opinions to someone else. Guys like you two ruin these type of threads. There's a lot of dumb a$$'s on many sites just like you two. Hopefully any newbies to this site will see through your bull sh1t as quick as I did. But sure having fun right now. So keep the stupidity going. But I really hope is guys like you two when you don't have something intelligent and helpful to say you shut your mouth. Good way to live life. All you can control in this life is your own actions. Everything else is out of your control. Like me shooting elk at 600. And if I'm 100% sure I can place the shot where I want I'll take it and there's not a damn thing you can do about it and I'll have another nice bull on the wall.

Hey Don, we have a troll/personality disorder in aisle 2. Open the trapdoor, would you?

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Hey Don, we have a troll/personality disorder in aisle 2. Open the trapdoor, would you?

Personality disorder. Funny. I'm going off on a couple of dumba$$es as they have it coming. Maybe they'll be nicer because of it but I doubt it. No need to open the door I'm out here as soon as their done being stupid.

Adams--You either have a reading or writing or both comprehension problem. You don't understand what you have written when people respond to it. You have stated twice you need more than the 600 yards you have available. You said even perfect shot placement does not grantee a kill. Go look up grantee. It will be ok if you get help to look it up--you wont have to tell us you had help. In fact, I'll help you out. Grantee means one that receives a grant. I was wondering what the hell you were talking about. I'm sure with your high IQ you knew what grantee means and certainly someone as perfect and precision as you didn't make a mistake.

I bet you will tell us that deer that got away 40 years ago would have been mince meat on the spot had you been using a .300 mag instead of a 30-06.

I bet you have some nice bulls on the wall. Some that weigh 6,000 lbs even, that is a lot of bull.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Adams--You either have a reading or writing or both comprehension problem. You don't understand what you have written when people respond to it. You have stated twice you need more than the 600 yards you have available. You said even perfect shot placement does not grantee a kill. Go look up grantee. It will be ok if you get help to look it up--you wont have to tell us you had help. In fact, I'll help you out. Grantee means one that receives a grant. I was wondering what the hell you were talking about. I'm sure with your high IQ you knew what grantee means and certainly someone as perfect and precision as you didn't make a mistake.

I bet you will tell us that deer that got away 40 years ago would have been mince meat on the spot had you been using a .300 mag instead of a 30-06.

I bet you have some nice bulls on the wall. Some that weigh 6,000 lbs even, that is a lot of bull.

You don't know when to quit do you Mr. Alzheimer's You just make sh1t up as you go. I never usually go off like this on anyone but trying to trick me in my knowledge when I was sincerely trying to answer your questions. FY. So I may look stupid for going off on you and stonycreek but you guys deserve it. And I'll never post here again once this thread ends so I really don't care. You treat people like sh1t. Not as bad as stonycreek though.

Comprehension problems, I don't understand what I've written. Really....

Animals do sometimes get a away with perfect shot placements and when I say this I mean Internal organs, liver, lungs, etc. There is story after story of guys this has happened to. I know of three personally. I know a local outfitter here that his client Pat Reeves shot a buck with an arrow with perfect shot placement. I seen the video in person and on T.V. The buck lived and was shot 2 months later the bucks name was Moses, maybe someone out here seen that show. I had friend shoot a buck right behind the front shoulder buck lived his brother shot later in the season and I seen where the hole in the buck was which didn't kill him.

I have never once stated that I need to shoot over 600 yards. Prove it! Post back one of my posts where I stated I would shoot past 600 yards. I stated the guide I'm going to had a place to shoot over 600 but never have never stated I would shoot past 600.

Ya again you're a complete idiot making caliber sh1t up now. You can kill a deer with a pellet gun at 50 yards if you hit the right place, I know someone who did. Wasn't legal but wasn't me. He was trying to kill the deer but was trying to keep them out of his apple orchard. Is this all you got to come back to try and antagonize me with. You look very foolish my man.

Ya I hire guides but never shoot any nice elk. lmao. Elk that weigh 6,000 lbs, again looking pretty foolish. You just need to read threads and never post maybe you'll learn something but I doubt it. Why don't learn how to be nice to people. You either got drinking or drug problems cause no can be this stupid.

Just sitting here LMAO at you and also feeling sorry for you at the same time.

However you shouldn't be aloud to own a gun.

I'll be waiting for post showing where I stated I would shoot over 600.....

I'm still having fun!!! How about you....

quote:

However you shouldn't be aloud to own a gun.

If I'm not aloud to own a gun do I need to get a silencer or would they be allowed? Bet that went over your head.

Adams: Regardless of your views on long range shooting, perhaps you might take time to check your spelling:

"to", when meant as "also" is spelled "too".
"aloud", when meant as "permitted" is spelled "allowed"
"your" when meant as "you are" is spelled "you're"

For someone who quibbles over the precision of shooting at 600 yards due to group dispersion from velocity variations due to temperature change you seem awfully imprecise with your communications. Such elementary mistakes make you sound juvenile and less credible.

You two are down to spelling errors. lmao Yep I haven't done any proof reading or spending any time for proper grammar. This is just a stupid thread. But this stupid thread is still very entertaining.

Where's that proof I was asking for about shooting past 600 carpethead? Don't have any???? ummm..... Image that. Can't back up his words. So why don't you make some more crap up and post it out here.

Stonyhead, tell me more about your long range shooting skills... and how that animal stood there on the television show for what was you said oh ya "see the pile of twenty or so cartridge cases on the ground beside the triumphant shooter's tripod rest" yep good one. The animal just stood there as nineteen rounds hit around it and it didn't run away. Boy the both of your are so full of crap......

lmao. Can't wait to see your next response.

Adams, you have stated you only have 600 yards available now. You stated your guide has place past 600 yards. If you didn't plan on using it, why mention it? You stated a 300 mag good to 825 yards. Wouldn't you wont to practice past 600 to wring out the last drop? Those things are what I responded to. You really think I was serious about reversing a scope? You have bragged about your high IQ and as Stonecreek pointed out you sound juvenile and less credible--certainly not high IQ. You shot a deer off a rest, but never told us how it got on the rest.

quote:

You shot a deer off a rest, but never told us how it got on the rest.

I once shot a hog in my pajamas. Really. Unlike Groucho Marx's elephant, however, I was wearing the pajamas. However, when I relate the story that never keeps people from asking "How did the hog get into your pajamas?" I simply tell them that the hog and I were about the same size, so the hog had no difficulty at all.

It occurs to me that the one who has to actually deal with Adams and his fantasies is not us, but his unfortunate guide. Hopefully, the guide is charging what his trouble is worth.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Adams--You either have a reading or writing or both comprehension problem. You don't understand what you have written when people respond to it. You have stated twice you need more than the 600 yards you have available.

Mr. Alzheimer's You prove my point exactly. It is very obvious you're the one who has the writing and comprehension problem. I asked you to prove that I said I wanted to shoot past 600 and here's your response.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Adams, you have stated you only have 600 yards available now. You stated your guide has place past 600 yards. If you didn't plan on using it, why mention it? You stated a 300 mag good to 825 yards. Wouldn't you wont to practice past 600 to wring out the last drop? Those things are what I responded to.

You just make this crap up. The 300 win mag is good to 825 means I'm going to shoot that far. You idiot. Your above statement proves my point that I never said I want to shoot past 600 and that your a dumba$$. And you picked on my grammar and spelling an then come back with "Wouldn't you wont to practice" Idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
You shot a deer off a rest, but never told us how it got on the rest.

Why would I explain how I got on the rest. I was shooting 50 yards, who needs a rest at 50 yards. Maybe Stonehead does. But I was on a rest as I was shooting out of tree stand that had a shooting rail. Why are you even bring this up dumba$$.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
you sound juvenile and less credible--certainly not high IQ

Juvenile, this whole thread is juvenile. It turned Juvenile right from the start when Stonehead made his statement about me being unethical. Then you trying to trick me with questions about calibers but you couldn't. I know I am correct about everything I said. I know my IQ is higher than yours who's isn't?


You just look more foolish every time you post. Why don't you just give up as you're no match for me.