Inpart some wisdom on me with dies. I know Carbide is beast with pistol. But with rifle dies, why does Lee have 3 die sets and RCBS has 2 die sets?

Lee makes a number of different die sets some with 2 and some with 3 dies. Most likely the set you are referring to is the 3 die set with the factory crimp die (FCD). The factory crimp die is a superior crimp die if you have to crimp a rifle cartridge - which most of the time you don't have to. Crimping is mainly a requirement for tubular magazine rifles and autoloaders to insure the bullet does not move.
Most everyone else's dies also crimp but it is roll crimp built into the seater. Most of us adjust the seater where the crimp feature is never used.

I have used Lee dies in the past and still own a few sets for calibers I don't load for often, but will buy no more Lee in the future. I like RCBS, Redding and Hornady, though not always in that order. Lee dies will load decent ammo but are a flaming pain in the hemoroids to use. Life is too short to use inferior equipment.

I have a few sets of Lee dies....they are actually pretty good but have returned my reloading dollar to RCBS

I much prefer a threaded spindle!

danny,

Marketing gimmicks and Specialty Dies aside - there's many Die Sets offered with extras; some have powder filling thru Dies, Factory Crimp Dies, etc.

HOWEVER:

For rifle cartridges the main difference between a 3 Die Set & a 2 Die Set; of whatever manufacture is that 2 Die Sets are for Bottlenecked cartridges (example, a .30/06 Sprg.) and 3 Die Sets are for so-called Straight-walled cartridges (example: 45/70 Gvmt, .444 Marlin).

The reason for the extra Die is Striaght-walled cartridges require an additional Die to flair the mouth of the case prior to seating a Bullet. If the case isn't flaired the bullet (either lead or jacketed) will usually crush the case when attempting to seat it (same as Revolver/Pistol 3 Die Sets).

Thanks, the dies set i was talking about had the Factory crimp i think. That makesx a little more sense now.

danny -

consider the lee deluxe die set plus the factory crimp die.

the deluxe die set consists of a dead-length seating die and allows you the option of using their collet neck-sizing only die or a full-length sizing die.

midway offers a very good discout on this set. for the price, it is hard to beat, plus it comes with an ironclad guarantee to give you more accurate ammunition.

adding the factory crimp die to this set is like adding carrots to peas or peanut butter to chocolate.

In my experience the factory crimp die is the best thing that Lee makes. I use RCBS and Redding otherwise. The factory crimp die is great for the heavy recoilers that mandate a heavy crimp.

quote:

Originally posted by Luckyducker:
I have used Lee dies in the past and still own a few sets for calibers I don't load for often, but will buy no more Lee in the future. I like RCBS, Redding and Hornady, though not always in that order. Lee dies will load decent ammo but are a flaming pain in the hemoroids to use. Life is too short to use inferior equipment.

Have you tried the Lee collett dies?? I use all of the dies that you like too, and they all turn out decent hunting ammo. If you have a concentricity gauge, check your finished loads against that produced with the Lee collett neck sizer--the little Lee consistently produces the straightest ammo, at least in my experience.

I will agree with you on the Lee seating dies. They are middle of the pack. I'm partial to Forster/Bonanza and Redding benchrest seaters. In fact, short of using custom competition dies, I would bet, on average, a Lee collett and a Forster BR seater will produce the straightest finished rounds. JMO

Lee Collet Neck Sizer - $19.00
Redding Body Die - $24.00
RCBS Competition Seater - $72.00
Lee Factory Crimp Die - $10.00

Best of all worlds and all you'll ever need to load straight ammo.

Another vote for Lee collet dies for anything you can neck size.

The Lee collet die is great but remember, eventually you will have to size a case more so it can be chambered. You still need a regular size die if the brass expands too much or you find free brass shot from another gun.
I have the same trouble with revolver brass that I neck size. After so many shots they no longer go in the cylinders without force so they need full length sized once in a while.
The Lee FCD can be hard on brass life too.

quote:

why does Lee have 3 die sets and RCBS has 2 die sets?

Lee's RGB (Really Great Buy) sets have two dies but no shell holder, at a really good price.

The Deluxe set has the same two as RGB and includes a Collet Neck Sizer and ahell holder.

The Pacesetter set has the RGB dies and includes a Factory Crimp die plus shell holder.

Many of us think the Deluxe set plus a stand-alone Crimp die makes the ideal combo.

I own and use all brands of dies. Lee's dies work as well and load ammo as good as any but using them isn't just a 1-2-3 thing and some people just don't want to learn to use them correctly. For those people other brands are a better deal, there's little learning curve on the others. Lee spends NO money on making the dies look pretty outside but their innerds are as good as any, that's why they are so popular.

NO one makes a better neck sizer die OR crimping die than Lee. And getting a shell holder tossed in saves another $7-9 per cartridge, if money matters to anyone.

quote:

Originally posted by doclee:
In my experience the factory crimp die is the best thing that Lee makes.

My vote is for the powder dippers and primer pocket cleaner.

I recommend the Forster standard die set. Superior seating die.

quote:

Many of us think the Deluxe set plus a stand-alone Crimp die makes the ideal combo.

this is what i have for all of my reloading applications, works very well so far, but i admit that i am a bit o a newbie.

I am of the school of thought that if you're just starting, or replacing, you should go to the highest quality you can afford. I think that is Forster/Redding/RCBS/Hornady--JMO

The few Lee products I have work pretty well, I have several Lee collet neck sizing dies, and I have NOT had great results with all of them, although the Poster 'Woods' who I know is a great reloader, and knows his biz, does. I have had bad luck with that die CAUSING runout.

I like Forster dies very much, and would probably buy nothing but Forster dies if I had to start over. There are a few calibers I couldn't get a Forster die for--so I guess I would get a Redding or RCBS or Hornady for those!

No one mentioned Lyman dies. I have a set for my .223. Once fired cases seemed harder to size (require more downward force) than I would have expected for a 223. Are they just lousy dies?

Forster Benchrest FL dies size my 30-06 and 243 with practically no effort. I like Redding too.
Merg

quote:

Originally posted by merganser1:
No one mentioned Lyman dies. I have a set for my .223. Once fired cases seemed harder to size (require more downward force) than I would have expected for a 223. Are they just lousy dies?

The Forster and Redding dies have a higher polish than Lyman, and most others, too. You can polish your Lyman sizing die with steel wool on a brush and Flitz on a bore mop using an electric drill.

Thanks Winchester, That makes sense cause the cases come out all scratchy looking with the Lyman die. I did polish the expander ball with jeweler's rouge on a piece of leather. I just chucked the stem in a high speed drill and laid the expander on the leather. It helped lessen resistance when bringing the expander up through the neck. I wanted Redding but Midway was sold oout so I just tried the Lyman. I'll do some more polishing. Thanks again. Merg

In almost any caliber I load for, I have a set of LEE Deluxe dies, ( with the neck sizer) and then also have a set of RCBS dies..

consider the price of bullets, 2 sets of diverse dies for a caliber is actually a cheap part of the entire picture... many of these die sets cost about the same as a box of bullets and will last a life time, plus are backed up quite well by the manufacturers...

quote:

The Forster and Redding dies have a higher polish than Lyman

I have polished my share of Lyman's old chrome plated dies. They still required high sizing and case extraction forces. I assume they had smaller interior dimensions. I like RCBS better and all of the Lyman dies went to Ebay.
That being said I like Forsters and Reddings too but RCBS set the standard for dependability and availability. Forster and Reddings never show up in many calibers that I find RCBS in.

Seafire2,
There is something to be said for owning multiple die sets at the same time. You get to compare them head to head. I have bought a lot of die sets out of nothing more than curiosity.
I have at one time had 3 or 4 dies sets for a number of calibers. I think the most I have had is 7 die sets for one cartridge. I have found that even within a single brand there are internal variations over the years.

RCBS full length sizers, and Wilson seaters.
This combo has delivered the best accuracy for me since beginning reloading.
Of course there are many other variables in the accuracy equation that must be addressed for best accuracy.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
I have the same trouble with revolver brass that I neck size. After so many shots they no longer go in the cylinders without force so they need full length sized once in a while.

I'm confused...how do you neck size a straight-walled revolver cartridge, or is this a bottle-necked revolver cartridge? I don't think I've ever heard of neck sizing pistol ammo before. I know the 357SIG, for example, is a bottle-necked, rimless, semi-auto pistol cartridge, cause I reload them. [But they'd need moon clips to function in a revolver and I've never seen a revolver chambered in 357SIG.] They always get full length resized in my Dillon carbide die set. There are other bottle-necked pistol cartridges...9x25 Dillon, 7.62x25 Tokarev, 30 Mauser, 30 Luger...but I've never heard of any of them being neck-sized on a regular basis.

quote:

Originally posted by merganser1:
...the cases come out all scratchy looking with the Lyman die.

Occasionally, the brass case will gall in the die, leaving brass deposits that will in turn scratch other cases. You might try some copper solvent to see if that's the situation before polishing.

Whose case lube do you use?

quote:

I much prefer a threaded spindle!

Yes. I have had problems with the spindle in a Lee pulling out when sizing .30-06 brass. Quite the pisser, it is...

quote:

No one mentioned Lyman dies. I have a set for my .223. Once fired cases seemed harder to size (require more downward force) than I would have expected for a 223. Are they just lousy dies?

I know its counterintuitive but a satin finish die surface is easier to use than one with a mirror polish. Any lightly etched surface will hold lube better.

Most of the case scratches we get comes from galled brass on the die walls, not scratched dies as such. Good lubes, properly applied, prevent galling.

On average, I find Lyman's dies as good as any for rifle and perhaps tied with Redding as THE best for pistol due to their excellant expander design (Redding copied Lyman's expander).

I've not seen that any brand of size dies is consistantly "tighter" or "looser" than any others, they all meet SAAMI tolerances, + zero/- a few thosanths. Clearly, any case fired in a large chamber and sized in a tight die will be more difficult to size.

For best my ammo, meaning the most concentric, I use Lee's collet neck sizer and a Forster "BR" seater. But no dies can load straight ammo in cases with bent or non-concentric necks so good case prep comes into play no matter what dies are used.

I've never found ANY brand of conventional (and some so called "premium") die sets to be consistntly "better" than any other brand. Except for Redding and Forster BR/Comp dies, and Lee's Collet Neck Sizer and Factory Crimp Dies, they ARE a tad better than others of their types, on average. IMHO!

I have learned to buy my dies by features, not by brands. And even then, if I get a set, or individual die in a set that doesn't work as I feel it should, I get another set to compare. Keeping the best, I will then sell or swap those that don't do as I want.