Why does reloading manuals say not to use this the 168 gr Sierra Match Hollow point on game animals? I Used one on a California Buck (small deer) not like a mule deer. Other then the over penetration and meat damage (blew a 6 inch hole outa the other side) It looked like it was still going at a high velocity when it exited. It looks like it should work well on pigs, or is this a bad idea? Its only a .308 winchester with a 26 inch barrel. The reason is my gun shoots that bullet the best and I LOVE accuracy.
I have taken many whitetail with match bullets. I took a nice doe a few weeks back with a 168gr SMK from a 308. She went down like a ton of bricks. Match bullets are fine for game,..as long as they are not pushed too fast.
Posts: 1496 | Location: behind the crosshairs | Registered: 01 August 2002
Quote: Why does reloading manuals say not to use this the 168 gr Sierra Match Hollow point on game animals?
Because, Then nobody would buy the "Gameking" bullets, which give very if not identical results on game, same jacket/core separation, identical weight retention, etc. etc. Jay
Posts: 1745 | Location: WI. | Registered: 19 May 2003
Because the Match Kings are "not designed to expand" and therefore may be used by snipers and special forces without violating the Geneva Convention. Game bullets expand, and therefore cannot be used in war.
That Match King that expanded on your deer was not designed to do so, therefore it would not violate the Geneva Convention to take it to the 'Stan and whack some Taliban guys. And yes, quite a large number of Match Kings end up in the hands of our more specially trained boys overseas.
All that being said, the Match King is not designed to hold together.
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002
Listen to P dog shooter and go find those 140 pages to read through. Bottom line is, the guys that have used them had good results, the guys who haven't used them cuss the guys who do. However, I would go with the 168 HPBT gameking. SO many guys have had outstanding results with this bullet. Yah, you go to pretty much any forum and you will find LOTS on this subject. We don't need to stretch this one out.
Posts: 395 | Location: Tremonton, UT | Registered: 20 April 2004
I much prefer Olympic Range Calculus for all but think skinned game. Sierra Math is only good for crunching er I mean punching paper. Some have had good results with Wasatch Range Boolean Algebraic Polymer Tipped Boat Tails but the trajectory can be hard to calculate.
Posts: 648 | Location: Huskerville | Registered: 22 December 2001
Basically, because Sierra says not to use them on animals, since they are not designed to perform correctly on game! Their action on impact with flesh and bone COULD vary considerably. Sierra won't guarantee them to perform the same each time!
I shoot them because they are more accurate in all of the rifles that I have tried. It doesn�t matter what size or weight of bullet you shoot if you miss. My friend uses them in his 300 Win Mag and do they sure make a big hole. He shot one in the back about 300yrds it had a hole about the size of a cantalope, the last deer the shot low in the chest from about 20ft went about 5 ft.
The problem is as I see it is the Match Kings and those type of bullets are very accurate and they have a thin jacket and they kill spectacularly sometimes and this creates proponents to them...they also fail on ocassions and this also creates opposition..
Continued use of them will almost surly result in ocassional failures, that is a fact IMO, so take your pick, its your deal, and we all have to live with our choices.
I is a big arguement on these boards and frankly I see it as useless words landing on deaf ears on both sides.
Posts: 42210 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000
Quote: I shoot them because they are more accurate in all of the rifles that I have tried.
How accurate do you need? Most of my hunting rifles will do 1/2 moa or better with regular hunting bullets. When I can't kill a deer with a 1/2 moa rifle it's time to quit!
Posts: 3097 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 28 November 2001
Even a rifle that only does 1.5MOA is a big game rifle out to 300yds or so. Most guys can't hit a 8" pie plate @ 300yds under field conditions anyway & then they worry about which bullet to use because "A" shoots under MOA & "B" shoots 1.5MOA? I don't think I'll ever get it. I'll alwyas hunt w/ a bullet that is designed for hunting & has as predictable results as possible, to each his own though.
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001
There are plenty of good hunting bullets that shoot extremely accurately. I've shot some premium hunting bullets 1/4 MOA at 300yds. Hunters who use match bullets on game are just lazy reloaders who instead of spending a little more enjoyable reloading effort on developing a good hunting load are willing to risk seriously maiming an animal instead of killing it quickly . Hunters who use Matchkings on game need to get off their lazy ass and work up a load with a better bullet for hunting!........DJ
Posts: 3976 | Location: Oklahoma,USA | Registered: 27 February 2004
I don't appreciate your remark I am not a lazy ass. I work up a load with each gun that is the most accurate. I use the load on targets & Deer hunting if I don�t get a clean humane kill I quit using the load (type of bullet). I seen my friend kill one deer at approximately 300yrds standing with no rest using a Sierra HP match bullet. In the future keep your nasty remarks to your self. This is a forum for information not insults.
Quote: I shoot them because they are more accurate in all of the rifles that I have tried.
How accurate do you need? Most of my hunting rifles will do 1/2 moa or better with regular hunting bullets. When I can't kill a deer with a 1/2 moa rifle it's time to quit!
I thoroughly concur!
I get from 1/4" to well under 1 MOA with hunting bullets in all of my guns! Some with Groove Bullets, Hornady Interlocks, Nosler Partitions, Barnes X, Nosler accubonds etc. None are over 1 MOA....NONE. And when it comes to bullets ...well for one thing these are true hunting bullets, not paper killers!
Additionally ...I do not know if you call using Matchkings on game laziness, ignorance or stubborness. But it truly is
UNETHICAL! < !--color-->
Posts: 3865 | Location: Cheyenne, WYOMING, USA | Registered: 13 June 2000
Dj, it's not lazy it's just not well thought out. In the search for the Holy Grail of accuracy, some forget that they are hunting. When one hunts they should strive for the most humane kill possible. I test all of my hunting bullets before they are launched @ an animal. I can't see waiting for the failure before I "quit using" that bullet. My biggest concern is that in a format like this a new reloader/hunter thinks all there is to it is getting the most accurate load & that's enough. No, it's matching bullet & cartridge to the game animal, learning to shoot well (offhand 300yds is beyond me, I use some kind of rest or @ least sit down) & being able to put it all together. Like Ray A. said, you'll never get the guys who swear by SMK to see it any other way. Again, to each his own, we all have our opinions, and while we don't have to agree, we should be civilized about it.
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001
You cant really say the man is being "Unethical." He could say you are being unethical as well. You are obviously a penetration hunter and that can be argued by many to be "Unethical."
The fact that his rifle shoots the combo accurately and 168 grains is a descent weight bullet, at a reasonably speed this round could be one of the most "Ethical" hunting combos out there.
His load will cause devastating internal damage resulting in a very quick humane kill. Seems pretty "Ethical" to me. It sure is more ethical than shooting a bullet that barely expands, causes hardly any internal damage, and causes the animal to die a slow painful death.
Good Luck!
Reloader
Posts: 4146 | Location: North Louisiana | Registered: 18 February 2004
I'm only responding 'cuz I already have these images on an image server.
Look at the friggin' images.
That are fragments of a .30 cal Match King you're lookin' at. Kinda performs like a varmint bullet, eh? If deer are varmints [they may be to some] then you're a-o.k.
If you can't figure this one out, you need serious help!!!
You cant really say the man is being "Unethical." He could say you are being unethical as well. You are obviously a penetration hunter and that can be argued by many to be "Unethical."
The fact that his rifle shoots the combo accurately and 168 grains is a descent weight bullet, at a reasonably speed this round could be one of the most "Ethical" hunting combos out there.
His load will cause devastating internal damage resulting in a very quick humane kill. Seems pretty "Ethical" to me. It sure is more ethical than shooting a bullet that barely expands, causes hardly any internal damage, and causes the animal to die a slow painful death.
Good Luck!
Reloader
Actually I can!!! If the manufacturer who makes these warns against their use then he/she is nothing more than experimenting on live big game. What can be more unethical than that? Who makes these people a better authority on Sierra bullets than say....Sierra bullets????
BTW what bullet mentioned by me barely < !--color--> expands?
Posts: 3865 | Location: Cheyenne, WYOMING, USA | Registered: 13 June 2000
Quote: If you can't figure this one out, you need serious help!!!
"Help"
I have tried Game Kings on Deer and Targets and I don't like the accuracy they give on paper or the expansion on the Deer I have shot. Where I shoot I don't have a chance to use a rest or a tree. If I move they run away my friend shoots at greater ranges and is quite a better shot than I am off-hand.
If Match Kings are not a good choice considering my luck with clean kills and accuracy then how about Nosler Partitions? They penetrate and expand both. My other friend uses them all of the time on Deer. He shot 2 different Deer in the chest and when we retrieved the bullet it was in the hind leg just under the skin. It also had plenty of expansion going in. I have been told or read that they were not as accurate because of the partition being not concentric. Anyone know if there is any truth in this or just another myth.
Swede, every rifle is different. The Noslet BT is supposed to be THE accuracy bullet for hunting anyway. My .338-06 shoots the 210gr partition into much smaller groups than the 200grBT. In my .280 the 160grNP is capable of subMOA out to 300yds +. It all depends on the rifle & load combo. Definetly a better hunting bullet than any matchkingnbtsst or whatever. Again, just my opinion, but shoot some bullets into a medium of your choice & see for yourself, or view pics from guys who have.
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001
I wish I could have taken you guys on a few dozen hunting trips where I have witnessed "Hard to Destruct" bullets like Partitions and Failsafes in action and also the NBTs and SSTs too.
I wouldn't even dream of shooting a small big game animal w/ a Fail-Safe or Partition after the animals I have seen shot w/ them.
Little hole in, little hole out, very little meat damage, long long sparse blood trails. Lots of animals lost w/ these POS bullets.
Every time I have shot or seen an animal shot w/ NBTs and SSTs they have went down at impact or only traveled a few feet. They left massive exit wounds and the animal expired quickly and humanely. If that is not more ethical, you guys need to seek therapy.
I have killed Russian Boars up to 500 pounds w/ the NBTs so, I know they are more than adequate for small big game . I feel the SMKs will be much in the same.
Apparently most of you base your opinions on what you have heard not what you have experienced.
All of the animals I mentioned above where from 80-500 pounds.
The "Hard-to-Destruct" bullets do have their place but, not for small big game animals.
Most of these so called Premium hunting bullets were designed to be used on very large Dangerous Game.
Why don't you all start shooting game w/ FMJs. It seems they would give you the penetration you need at a far cheaper price.
All bullets have their place in the hunting world. Face it, a 150 grn chunk of pure lead would be more than enough to take down a 150 pound whitetail. Why shoot them w/ a bullet designed for Moose or Lions?
Reloader
Posts: 4146 | Location: North Louisiana | Registered: 18 February 2004
Here's my collection of recovered partitions (all except bullet #2 which is a .30 cal, 200 grain Barnes Original) Guess what, they are ALL RECOVERED FROM SITKA BLACKTAIL DEER. I've never had a partition fail on a deer or any other game animal for that matter. Yes, these are manly rifles too - .30 & .338 caliber
I thought I missed a big buck I shot two years ago (ended up placing 3rd in the local big buck contest) I walked up to where I shot it - the .338 cal 250 grain partition left nice chunks of lung and bright red blood for me to follow all of 75 yds - one of the longest deer tracking jobs I've ever done in Alaska.
Maybe you (or your clients or your buds) are using kids rifles. Get a .30 caliber gun or bigger. Leave the little stuff for varmints.
Wow, a simple yes or no woulda been good enough, If it is that big of deal ill shoot them in the melon, BUT I DONT KNOW IF A .168 GRAIN .30 CAL 2800 FPS HOLLOW POINT TO THE TEMPLE WOULD HURT!? ahahah jk
Maybe it's just me but when a renowned company such as Sierra Bullets specifically recommends against something (like using Matchkings for Hunting) I usually think it's probably a good idea to take their advice. Somehow I think that the people who actually have the know-how and experience to manufacture something probably know a little more about what they make than the average gun nut.
I shoot lots of Matchkings, I buy them by the pound and not by the box. But I use them for their intended use - competitive shooting. But as much as I like them for their intended pupose I'd never use one hunting. Use them for what they are made for not for what they are not.
You guys that won't try other bullets are missing out on some extremely good bullets out there that are designed for hunting. If you'll put some effort into it you'll often match your load performance you get with MK's in a good bullet for hunting...................DJ
Posts: 3976 | Location: Oklahoma,USA | Registered: 27 February 2004
Quote: Maybe it's just me but when a renowned company such as Sierra Bullets specifically recommends against something (like using Matchkings for Hunting) I usually think it's probably a good idea to take their advice. Somehow I think that the people who actually have the know-how and experience to manufacture something probably know a little more about what they make than the average gun nut. I shoot lots of Matchkings, I buy them by the pound and not by the box. But I use them for their intended use - competitive shooting. But as much as I like them for their intended pupose I'd never use one hunting. Use them for what they are made for not for what they are not. You guys that won't try other bullets are missing out on some extremely good bullets out there that are designed for hunting. If you'll put some effort into it you'll often match your load performance you get with MK's in a good bullet for hunting...................DJ
Amen brother!
Posts: 3865 | Location: Cheyenne, WYOMING, USA | Registered: 13 June 2000
If I ever hunt wet phonebooks that may be a good link!!!
All but 2 of the animals I shot were with Mk's and they whent down and whent down hard and fast!!
The 2 others I used was a 115gr Nos partition and a Hornady 139gr SP.. The Doe I shot with the 115gr I had to track for about 200yds.. The 139gr SP worked great that deer whent about 25yds and it was lights out.. But I have yet to see one go more then about 2 steps with a MK and exit holes are huge alot bigger then the 139SP or the 115Par!! This is just "my" experiance with them.. You use what works for you and I will use what works for me...
IF you NEVER used a MK on game animals you cant say if they are good or not period!!!
No denial here.. I tried them and the performed great from what I have seen!!!
So answer me this since from the way you talk you never tried them so how can you say they dont work?? All you have to go off of is what people say and thats it... Thats like saying you dont like the taste of something you never tried.. But since other people say they didnt like it that means you dont like it???
From the looks of that link MK's dont like wet PAPER!!! lol...
In all honesty and seriousness.... I never have tried them. I just belive in stacking the deck in my favor. If that means using a spendy premium bullet so be it. I have very little good luck... that said with my limited luck the first Boone and Crocket Wyoming mulie or elk I would see I would shoot it with a Matchking and it would blow up...losing the game. So to eleviate the off chance (according to Matchking users) that this would happen I would not use them. Maybe it is faulty logic but has worked so far. I originally called Sierra they said do not use them, so I do not (any Sierra bullet on big game for that matter--too soft for me). As far as your analogy goes do not tell me you never ate something just because you did not like its looks or the smell! Come on now!
Posts: 3865 | Location: Cheyenne, WYOMING, USA | Registered: 13 June 2000
Thanks for the HONEST answer... To answer your question I was stationed in Korea for 1 year while I was in the army.. I can tell you honestly there is alot of NASTY smelling/looking food over there... I have at least tried what was offered to me.. It may only been a tiny bite just to get the taste but I did try it.. I am the kind of guy that will try anything ONCE lol.. Some of the food I ate over there that looked totaly disgusting was in fact very good.. Hell I have even eaten dog while I was there.. Course when your drunk and hungry it dont matter what the hell you eat lolol.. Well there is this one time I didnt try it because it smelt funny but It wasnt food lolol ..
