I want to do a straight walled, NO taper wildcat using a RIMLESS case and headspace on the mouth.

Is this feasible. I know of a lot of straight walled cases but NONE without some kind of rim or taper.

Any help or thought is appreciated.

Thanks

.30 Carbine, .45 acp come to mind. If the brass is thick enough don't know why not, other than no crimp? Case length would be critical for headspace.

C.G.B.

Both of those have some taper which keeps things from slipping and sliding...the one I want to do has NO taper whatsoever...same dia at case end as at case base...0.012" to 0.015" case walls. It's for a single shot rifle so NO crimp is required, just a tight grip on the bullet, or taper crimping.

Thanks

Tell us more details; like, why are you doing this? Realize that all case walls are tapered so your theory of exactly .015 walls all the way down is impossible unless you are making it. OD, sure.
But for a SS, why not a rim?
Last year I made a .444 marlin, on a Swedish Mauser, using rimless cases made from 30-06 brass. Have not fired it; no time.

I have a 44 on a 1.8" 30-06 that headspaces on the case mouth.
No problems, just keep case length accurate..

M

Well...I'm trying to cut a fat hog and not get found out. It will basically be a 38 Special, 357 Mag and 357 Maximum...although NOT that caliber. Can't do any rimmed case because there ARE NO longer rimmed cases with this particular case OD....NOR any that will fit by any simple case manipulation.

I didn't quite get the specifics correctly posted...the case walls are tapered INSIDE like most cases are...but the OD is straight with NO taper from mouth to base above the rim.

Ya'll should/will figure it out easy enough.

The easy way would be just rechamber to one of the already available cases...but I would loose the multiple case size capability that was my original intent when I first looked at this cartridge several years ago.

dpcd...Yeah...the 444 Marlin can use a multiple of rimmed cases just like several other semi-rimmed calibers...7/8mmx57 work just fine...but mentioning it can get the folks stirred up like whacking a hornets nest...I made mention of doing it something similar in one of my lever guns, an NEF SS and a bolt gun and got shot full of holes like Swiss cheese...never mind that all those iterations I've done shoot perfectly well, and possibly better or at least smoother functioning, than the rimmed version.

You'll like your "larger than life" Swede when you get some trigger time in.

Thanks Mark...just what I thought but needed some encouragement and actual experience...haven't played with actual wildcat mouth head spacing but I thought it would work as indicated. My iteration will be 2.15", about 90-95 gr H2O at least that's what my dummy and cartridge case designs came up with.

Another reason is economy...I can use a slightly larger chucking reamer to do the chamber or hone it, use cheap Lee reloading dies and Lee 45-70 case gauge and trimmer to maintain accurate case lengths and just have to buy a bullet mold for cheaper shooting...not to mention all the various caliber seating dies the will work just right or are amenable to modification.

If I say any more someone else will figure it out and scoop me......Can't understand WHY this hasn't been jumped on already ...it's totally simple.

And I'm looking at custom case makers to solve the equation even quicker and easier...although not cheaper I'm thinking.

Thanks again for the input...

Luck

A .357 has been done on 223 cases. The base diameter is .375 so the rim thickness is marginal, 0.009"
The one I saw was on a Thompson Contender.

I am (slowly) working on projects. First a .500 using the Smith and Wesson reamer and 375 Ruger brass. Want to use a WSSM action. Second is 50 Alaska reamer and RUM brass on a Remington. Both headspacing on case mouth. The reamers the case mouth area is cut at a 45 degree angle so a tool to square this will be needed

M

See...I knew it...got scoped...that's what I'm attempting to do. Trying to find someone who will make the longer brass BEFORE messing with the Ruger brass.

Roger that with the reamer...DON'T want to buy a finished reamer for just cutting a square shoulder, but I will talk to PT&G to see what they say. I'm also just thinking of grinding the end of the reamer square and getting too it...Grizzly has a 17/32 for ~13 bucks.

I did a chamber cast and the chamber length is almost 2.25", as is, to the beginning of the bore/groove so getting someone to make some brass is the best and simplest way.

A loaded bullet can be adjusted for a ~2.55" OAL right now WITHOUT doing any reamer work, and QL produces some amazing numbers with 325-400 gr bullets without too much recoil in a 10# reference rifle...around 25-35 ftlbs. and without the brake.

Not really sure if I want to shoot the thing AFTER loading up to the max with a longer case...unless the rifle weighs in at about 15 lbs...right now it weighs 7# and is well known for stomping the **** outta ya.

I have a 12.5 lb NEF 50-90 that isn't too bad up to 525 gr at top velos and a 1874 Sharps Quigley at almost 14# that works well with 600_700 gr, plus I will install a nice 4 port brake on the 500 and fancy up the forend hangers a bit PLUS the scope mount.

Keep in touch as "OUR THING" works through.

Thanks for the input.

I have done this; use a 300 WSM reamer to make 50-110 chambers, and brass is easy to get for that. Rimmed brass. If you wanted it rimless, just machine off the rim and cut an extractor groove. Might that work for you?
PTG will say; "$160 please" to make a custom reamer.

Right...there is a ton of cases in the 0.550" range, rimmed and rimless and a bunch of already-been-done on Ammoguide...BUT...I'm trying to use the original chamber dimensions...0.530" from base to mouth straight taper and 0.560" rim so I can also shot 500 Special and 500 Mag rounds in it.

The closest case to those dimensions is the 375/416 Ruger at 0.532+/- a bit...and there are a couple cases at 0.545" base dia....BUT...I DON'T want to rechamber or muck about modifying cases too much....not withstanding having to buy a pricey set of reloading dies AND a pricey reamer.

All the above lists some of the problems...I don't want to add any more.

If can't get cases made or find an easier way to get a shoulder cut I'm tossing this...it's not like I don't have enough bangers already...and I can get a COAL of 2.55" right now and a case OAL of 2.25" max also(I did a chamber cast and measured)...right up there with my 50-90's and 458's.

Staying with the original dimensions means I don't have to do very much messing about with the original 500 Mag dies...just a bit of inside honing to the sizer and a bit of outside "sanding" to the brass to arrive at a happy medium and cutting a shoulder and I STILL can shoot the other two 500 cartridges.

This is a wildcat...I'm not trying to sell it.

Luck

Oh...Lordy...Just found two cases that WILL work with very little mucking about...450/400 N.E. 3" and the 450 N.E. 3 1/4"...base is 0.546", only 0.016" difference...what's 0.008" to trim off...chump change Now to find a few empties to work with.

I'm on my way...

LUCK

The truth has set you free.......

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Clark:
... is 50 Alaska reamer and RUM brass on a Remington. Both headspacing on case mouth. The reamers the case mouth area is cut at a 45 degree angle so a tool to square this will be needed

M

Talk about taking the long way around -- the HEM (high energy mags) are the first .550 casehead rimless cases I recall seeing (there may or may not be official documents stating that) which is made from 450 alaskan cases with the rims turned off and made to fit a rimless system ....

it can work, btw, as they did a .510 on it -- and, of course the 500 cyrus is a .500 on the same...

quote:

Originally posted by NONAGONAGIN:
Oh...Lordy...Just found two cases that WILL work with very little mucking about...450/400 N.E. 3" and the 450 N.E. 3 1/4"...base is 0.546", only 0.016" difference...what's 0.008" to trim off...chump change Now to find a few empties to work with.

I'm on my way...

LUCK

if those will work, look at the 45/120 case -- it will be 1/2 or 1/3 the cost for norma brass ... just saying

Unfortunately way too small for his requirements. Base diameter is .500 and he needs .546.

No one's reading the fine print...0.530 case OD, 0.560" rim diameter...not a lot of cases close to that with a rim.

The easiest way to go is to leave the &%)*#%^& thing alone...it's already a beast as far as recoil goes, as is, at 7#s and a 325 gr bullet at close to 2450 fs is well over 4300 ft lbs...I mean WHAT do you need for whacking a deer????...or even a BIG BEAR.

Going to the longer, 85 gr case, puts that output up almost to 5000 ftlbs but also allows for a heavier bullet to get well OVER that number.

Anyway, I just ordered a box of Hornady cases so time will tell the outcome.

LUCK

Did you say SEVEN pounds? How about a mercury brake in the butt? Or a big muzzle brake? I know, no on that one.
Elmer would have like it though. "I like my rifles to kill on both ends."

YEAH...7(seven) pounds...totally uncool...and YES...a nice 4 port tactical MB from Harrell's is sitting on my desk just waiting to be installed...PLUS about 4-5 pounds of lead in the wooden stock and forearm....just like my 50-90 NEF Handi.

Horn 450/400 cases shipped from Precision already...

After looking at a chamber drawing and the chamber cast I still might need a reamer...either one with a shoulder or one with the rim flutes removed..which might be the simplest as I could adjust the chamber length by increments. As it is, 0.500" longer would give a case LOA of 2.215" and ~90 gr case volume...or adjustable from ~80 - ~90 gr. The chamber has a nice long lead that should hold the peak pressures down.

Its still working!!!!

LUCK

I have a .535 neck reamer if that will help.

Thanks..but that's a bit big to go through the .530" chamber.

That might work if I just ran it full length and stopped at 2.125". That would give ~ 0.002" clearance and clean up the original chamber maybe and leave a shoulder at the bores 0.488"...definitely a straight walled case. Then I would need a throater of some kind for the transition to the .488" bore. Even when things are simple, they get complicated without even half trying.

Save on the 450/400 turning also. Might shorten the case life a bit all that squeezing at sizing.

I keep asking "What's the point" from MY position. For a person with only one or two rifles it does make sense to kick it up a bit, and this larger cartridge would make a heck of a pig gun on a lever or semi-auto platform, but that niche is already filled with excellent calibers...AND I already have those positions filled with several 45 and 50 cals...WHAT am I even thinking about.

This is starting to get into that "back out now BEFORE you get TOTALLY mired in the mud.

The thumbhole stock and the 5C collet holder for my lathe came in today and I went to town for some Horn 300 gr gumby and 350 Sierra jacketed and worked on a 375 gr truncated cone cast lead bullet mold. Still haven't gotten the bullet profile quite to my liking and I have plenty of 500-700 gr .510" bullets I can turn down, reshape and resize for kicks.

Having PT&G do a 500 S&W reamer without the rim cutters would make this a much easier project, still allow me to shoot 500 S&W mags or just download and make me wonder just what in the HE** I did this for.

LUCK

FWIW and for anyone interested...

Dave Mason will do a rimmed to the specified COAL or rimless reamer for 175 solid pilot, 210 replaceable pilot...GREAT...at least he returned my email request the next day while PT&G didn't bother...but long wait period so finalization and testing is a couple months down the road.

I took some pic's of the 3 dummy's I made up but can't get this WIN 10 to put them in a post for your viewing pleasure...

Hornady brass should be here today or tomorrow...priority mail from Precision...

QL is giving some very not-so-humble numbers even with the Special case...velos up near 2200 ft and energy ~3100 ftlbs at a COAL of 2.040"...basically run out of case volume and very narrow powder burn rate only 3 powders will do it, all the other are either too fast or too slow to get it up...at least the 300 FTX has a nice BC of .200 so it will fly fairly well and stretch the distance a bit.

My bullet design for a relatively pointy nosed bullet with enough meplate to drill a hole in and support inserting a Cutting Edge .375 nose tip hopefully will push up the BC, at least that's what the software shows.

Anyway...it keeps on working!!!

Luck

Do you realize that your picture is surrounded by ads to import a Ukranian woman? That's all I need around here, another woman to criticize my smithing work.
I know a guy who does need one though; in Canada......

SHI*...FREAKING NET...Used one of those "free" image posting services...DON'T USE POSTIMAGE. Should have known, but when I checked the URL it was just the picture...no fringe "benefits". Thanks for the heads-up, Hoss.

I couldn't get Photobucket to work without upgrading to their paid subscription.

I could solve this/these problems but then you'd think I was Idi Amine or worse and now Kalifornication has turned into a pothead state. You'd better strap in tight because we are in for a death ride for sure.

LUCK??????

AND...So, after all the monkey motion, hours on the 'net chasing "stuff", and cogitating over all the various requirements, I finalized the case size and volume then ran a spreadsheet comparing the standard 500 S&W mag, 1.625"/68 gr volume with the 2.15"/88 gr, 23% larger finalized case.

Par for the course, the old 1/4% difference gain still holds true...~5.5% possible increase boiled down to ~250 fs gain in velo depending on the bullet weight and a 500 ft-lb energy gain, again depending on the bullet weight...and a LARGE bite in the pocketbook for that gain, in comparison to other MUCH easier to do, already available wildcats.

So my dream of a multiple cartridge use rifle is just that...a very nice dream and an equally nice mental exercise.

Now I have a box of Hornady 450/400 cases to sell.

So after looking at the options in Ammo Guide and QL the 50 Alaskan, 50 BM Alaskan or 500 Martin would be cartridges to look at for those so inclined...the problem of gain is still there as far as the velo/energy goes...~250 fs/500 ft lbs, but a simple rechamber to the 348 Win cartridge based wildcats with the cases/reamer/dies readily available is easily and relatively cheaply doable.

No matter where you go, there you are...but getting there is the best part of the journey.

I'm just gonna leave the 500 S&W Mag T/C as is and fix the forend/scope mount problems and start thinking of another wildcat to play with...or not

My Accurate Molds 375 gr and 500 gr LFNGC designs are in the works with the 500 gr paid for and coming home in about 3 weeks...saved enough on the reamer to pay for the T/C work I can't do and the limbsaver pad for the new wood thumbhole stock, so, all in all, I'm VERY happy with my Christmas present.

Isn't this "wonderful world of Wildcatting" a thing of pure joy!!!!


LUCK