I'm looking for a good 7mm08 reduced load for my 7 year old. In my research I have found that alot of people have used SR4759, Blue Dot, AA5744, and a few other powders but I see any load data that contains velocity. My son will be shooting a Remington Model 7, 7mm08 youth. Can anybody give me Min and Max loads and velocities.

hi, slim -

i'm not trying to step on any toes, but do you have a .22lr? might be a better place to start (if you haven't already).

as far as reduced loads, consult richard lee's second edition of MODERN RELOADING. he seems to ahve made this topic his life's second ambition. the member here named seafire has done quite a bit of work on them and you could ask him. one thng to remember is that with reduced loads the danger level goes up very far and very fast unless you are very careful.

started my daughter off with a 7mm/08. Search for seafires bluedot loads. I'll have to dig a little, but they were very accurate, and next to nothing on recoil. It's a good way to start a youngster off with centerfire rifles. My daughter now shoots a 12 ga. for sporting clays, and has shot her deer the last 2 years with a 7mm Remington magnum. You will love the reduced 7mm/08 loads, they are very effective.

Start here

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

I started the little one off at five shooting a cricket (.22). Now he wants some trigger time deer hunting. So I'll give seafire a try, maybe he'll have some more info.
Thanks

Just did a search for seafires bluedot loads and came up with nothing

hornady 100gr hp and a light load of varget --

quote:

Originally posted by acsteele:
.. Search for seafires bluedot loads. ...

Hey Slim, I'll strongly disagree with the above recommendation. seafire has already caused two over Pressure incidents with one of them completely blowing up the rifle with his blue dot loads. A few of us have stepped forward to say we have seen the Erratic Pressure with blue dot used where it should not be used, and more are seeing it for themselves all the time.

The Speer Load Manuals, as well as other Manuals, all contain Factory Tested down-loads which are the very best place to start. If she can't handle their recoil, then she is too young to be shooting.

Hodgdon also has the excellent 60% of MAX Rule with their H4895 which also works very well. You can find out about it on their web site.

I'd encourage you to forget the blue dot loads, as well as ANY non-factory Tested Load, they are going to Kill someone eventually.

Best of luck with your daughter.

While me and Glenn disagree on the use of Blue Dot, for anyone that has any concerns over its use, then I say avoid it...Blue Dot is not the only tool in the shed for jobs like this..

There are plenty of good loads available using SR 4759 out there...

I have been working with it extensively also as reduced loads has been a side hobby of mine for a while...

so I can recommend blue dot charges for your set up or I can also recommend SR 4759 loads for you, if you follow Glenn's philosophy...

they will both do the same thing.. blue dot will be a little more accurate and a hair less recoil than comparable SR 4759 loads... however the differences will be negligible, even for a 7 yr old...

Hodgdon's H 4895 loads are a waste of time.. while they can produce reduced felt recoil, the powder is highly inconsistent on accuracy in my experiences... one is a tackdriver and then move up or down 1/10 a grain and the bullets are all over the place....

SR 4759 or Blue Dot are not that finicky....

IMR 4198 or H 4198 are also two great powders for reduced loads, and are far more accurate than H 4895 for consistency...

I can set you up with load data using those two powders also...

as far as bullets for the 7/08, especially with reduced loads... bullet weights of 120 grains or less, will more than do the job..

I took a 210 blacktail last deer season with a 110 grain Speer TNT with an MV of about 2500 fps, using a charge of 28 grains of SR 4759 out of a 7 x 57 in a Win Featherweight...

to get a 7 year old use to the rifle.. starting them out with practicing with loads of Trail Boss which will give MVs of 1100 to 1300 fps would be an easy route also...

Hey seafire2, Any thing will be helpfull. If you think SR4759 is a better load then PLEASE by all means send me that info. Hopefully you have velocities...also if you can please send the Trail Boss info...By the way have you ever tried AA5744?
Hey Thanks in advance!!!

Thanks for in-put Hot Core..I think I'll try something like SR4759...or AA5744.Do you have anything on them too?
Thanks for eveything...

Slim,

I am not going to recommend AA 5744 for one reason. It has a loud boom when it goes off, and since your daughter is only 7, it stands a chance of intimidating her. Other powders are just as accurate, without that characteristic.

As I said, I am going to recommend using bullets or 120 grains or less to start her out...

for SR 4759, take a look at developing her a load using anything from 20 grains of 25 grains..

For IMR 4198, or H 4198 look at developing her a load using anything from 25 grains to 30 grains

for RL 7, develop a load between 25 to 30 grains also...


if you insist on wanting to try 5744, start a load at about 22 grains and work up to a max of about 26 grains...

either one of the 4227's, IMR or H, you can also start at 20 grains and work up to 25 grains...

all the above info is at or below what is safe for 140 and 150 grain bullets... so using them with bullets of 120grains and down, will be well under max pressure...

when you reload them afterwards for the second and third times, many of those loads will work well with just a neck resize as the brass will not expand all that much due to low pressure...

you should be well under 40,000 psi with any of these....

none of these load will be position sensitive in the case.. a mag primer is not needed and even a large pistol primer should work just fine, as these powders are easily ignited..

now as far as Trail Boss, according to the factory, the only real guidelines for it is that it is not compressed...

it is a very bulky powder.. it was developed for the cowboy action shooters in mind.. to be almost impossible to over pressurize a case.. yet bulky enough that it fills a case... looks like small oatmeal flakes or small Cherrios..
it is so bulky that 15 grains of it fills a 30/06 case...

it was also designed to where in any case, where it is full ( to the shoulder and not compressed) MV will compare to old black powder cases... between 1100 to 1300 fps..

Trail Boss makes a rifle go off like it was a big popgun or something...

hopefully somewhere in there is something that you and your daughter both will enjoy...

all these loads are also very easy on barrel life...another feature near and dear to my heart..

Originally posted by slim5010:
So Seafire you're saying that 20 is a good start and 25gr is the max for that reduced load....Any thing on velocity...18 1/2 barrel?....I sure don't want that big boom from AA 5744 just the sound could change a kids...or even some adults minds about shooting.
Thanks

Slim,

can't give you velocities right off on the 18 inch barrel... nice thing about reduced loads with those powders is that they don't loose much velocity in shorter barrels, but also don't gain much velocity in longer barrels either.. because most of the powder is burnt up quicker in the barrel...

as far as parameters, I am letting you have safe loads for the daughter to practice with and get accustomed to the rifle...max loads is a little beyond what I am recommending, but you don't gain that much....

SR 4759 won't pressure spike also...

you can actually go lower with it also...

I have loads for the 8 x 57 Mauser, that I pretty much use with SR 4759...15 grains, 20 grains, 25 grains, and 30 grains...and a 170 grain Speer bullet...

the 15 grain loads is used for short range, but it works well and the bullet expands well also..

playing with a 7 x 57, I've done the exact same thing...

so in a 7/08, you can even safely drop the charge down to 15 grains...

however the lower you go, the greater increase chance you have for a double charge... that won't be a major problem with a 7/08, with the lighter weight bullets as the case can handle a 30 grain charge with no problem..

I just know you will find useful, the charges between 20 and 25 grains..

with kids I always assume equal to the range of a 30/30... which I view as 150 yds..

zero you scope say 2 inches high at 100 yds and you should be easily good to 150.. or say 1 inch high at 50 yds will give you the same thing...

didn't notice before you were from Fayetteville..

I was one of the team captains for the Soccer Team at Fayetteville Senior High in 1967.. our first year out, we took state championship...

My dad was stationed at Pope AFB in 66 and 67, and then was sent to Vietnam.. so we went home to Virginia...

The year after I left, they changed the name to Terry Sanford Senior High, and then integrated it....That was the last year the school system in Cumberland County & Fayetteville was segregated...

quick addendum:

with reduced loads, I recommend charging a case, then seating a bullet before going on to the next round...

that technic eliminates a chance for a double charge...

this is highly important...for everyone's safety, because if your wife is like my wife, they sure can be distracting when handloading with the old, "honey can you do this for me, it will only take a minute....".. and then the guilt trip sets in...

Hey Man you've been a big help...You know I shoot and play around with guns all day at work and when I get home it's like another job....Always somebodies elses stuff and not mine....Kind of like a roofers job...fix roofs all day then go home and it's rains in his house..
I use a single stage press so seating them after every charge is not a problem. I only load to hunt so I'm not loading many at a time. Most when I'm working up a load.
Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by slim5010:
...Thanks for in-put Hot Core..I think I'll try something like SR4759...or AA5744. Do you have anything on them too? ...

Hey slim, No, other than recommending you stay with Down-Loads found in the various Manuals or from a Powder Manufactures web site.

One of my buddies daughters is using the 60% of MAX H4895 Rule in a 270Win, getting good accuracy, acceptable recoil and Killing everything she shoots at. The last time we spoke, he is in the process of moving her into a 7mm-08 because of the reduced weight. He mentioned he would begin trying the H4895 Down-Loads in it, but had not tried them when we talked.

I've not Down-Loaded my 7mm-08, so I have no first-hand experience with it there. As long as you stay with Factory Tested Loads, you and I will both feel better about the situation.

I really do not want ANYONE to get hurt with Reloads. It just isn't worth being Ka-Boomed.

Best of luck to you and your daughter.

With the velocity being so low is there a good bullet that will mushroom and have enough to go through for a blood trail...Deer here are small...average doe 60 - 100 pounds.
He'll be shooting out to about 75 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by slim5010:
With the velocity being so low is there a good bullet that will mushroom and have enough to go through for a blood trail...Deer here are small...average doe 60 - 100 pounds.
He'll be shooting out to about 75 yards.

Most 7mm bullets under 120 grs are designed for varmites. They should expand well at reduced vel.

Hornady I think has a 120 grain spp "soft point pistol" that is designed for lower velocity "pistol" expansion. I personally have never had a bad load with H4895, or IMR 4895 reduced or full and found it to be real easy to work with. Some people use rayon batting to fill the case and keep the powder from shifting. I am not going to rag on you or anyone else, but I personally seen ALOT of gut shot deer, by very young hunters, that don't completely comprehend where that vitals are and how important it is for proper shot placement. Lot's of kids "and adults" get way to exited for there first deer and go for "the broad side of a deer".Please practice.

any bullet at 120 grain or below will work just fine...

I am partial to using the Speer 110 grain and the 115 grain Hollow Points...

But the Hornady or Sierra 100 grain SPs work just fine,

all the 120s by all manufacturers...

the 130 grain SP by Sierra is also a good bullet...

Thanks everybody for the input....Maybe he wont gut shoot his first deer....But he has to start somewhere....At lower velocities which do you think would be better: hollow points, soft points, or ballistic tips?

Ballistic Tips will open well down to about 1400 fps...

HP's are about the same in my experience..

Don't forget to try some V Maxes if you have any.. a little more fragile than Ballistic tips in my experience...but still useful...

SP's would be in third place...

Try shooting some into some test media..

trees, water in Milk jug, wet phone books...
see what you get...

remember before Smokeless powder MV was about 1500 fps TOPS!

Seafire, with those ballistic tips, normally on a broad side shot will there be a pass through. The reason I'm asking is because I loaded some for my 7 mag. and after two deer and no pass through I pulled all the bullets and went to sierra gamekings. I recovered the deer, and I guess that is what mattered BUT in eastern NC the woods are thick and no blood trail most of the time means NO deer.

quote:

Originally posted by slim5010:
I'm looking for a good 7mm08 reduced load for my 7 year old. In my research I have found that alot of people have used SR4759, Blue Dot, AA5744, and a few other powders but I see any load data that contains velocity. My son will be shooting a Remington Model 7, 7mm08 youth. Can anybody give me Min and Max loads and velocities.

He is going to have such fun! I love love what you are doing!

Do remember that recoil isn't really such a big issue for youngters. I have two suggestions, firstly, starting loads with heavier bullets give a push as opposed to a 'kick'. Your youngster may well enjoy the feel of it. You could for example use a slower than normal powder with a lighter bullet so as to have a low max pressure - I see that H4831 has a starting load for similar sized cases with a CUP value of only 32,000 (Hodgdon website). That will give a very gentle push. (Sweet shooting, actually).
Secondly, there is a simple hybrid muzzle bread/suppressor that takes the blast and recoil right out of the gun.

This one overhangs the barrel by two inches. It reduces sound levels to that or less than a 22magnum.


This one is for a 22-250. It will add 1 1/2 inches to the gun. Earplugs would still be required for comfort. This one should be legal without any taxes - It's a "muzzle break".


The one on my 303 Brit is fatter and uglier but I can shoot it with any thought of loss of sight picture or firm hold. It's great!

Just an idea!

Oh, by the way, using a case full of slower powder produces a lovely muzzle flash which kids will love! (The muzzle device kills that, though).

quote:

Seafire, with those ballistic tips, normally on a broad side shot will there be a pass through.

only rarely will they exit out the other side, except at the lower velocities... impact velocity of 2000 fps or less...

What they will do is expend all of their energy inside the animal, and will be quite devestating in the damage internally...

I learned to deer hunt on the Ft Bragg Reservation there in 1966 and 67....so I understand what you speak of, having hunted that terrain...

if the distance of the shot isn't too great and you want a pass thru for a blood trail, consider switching to the Hornady 139 grain FN for the 7/30 Waters...

another good choice would be their 154 grain Round Nose..that will give LOTS of penetration at lower speeds....

even better will be the old Sierra 170 grain RN or the Hornady 175 grain RN...

I have had the 175 grain RN Hornady penetrate thru over 18 inches of wood, and keep on going when the MV of the shot was only 1800 fps..

The Round Noses will open up at those lower velocities...

the data I gave above for SR 4759, RL 7, IMR and H 4198, should be able to take those charges in most rifles, but remember to work up as all rifle barrels are a hair different...

I myself have always been a fan of a bullet expending its energy within the animal, where I don't need necessarily to follow a blood trail..

I took a 650 lb cow elk one time with a load that sent a 165 grain ballistic tip out of an 06 muzzle at 2250 fps... hit the cow at 175 yards broadside, when it was at a gallop...

she went about 60 yds and collapsed...

the ballistic tip had penetrated to the hide on the far side and did not exit... the damage it did on the inside was unbelievable.... but even more unbelievable was the elk made it 60 yds before collapsing with how much damage it had internally...

the HP's will not usually exit...

Hey Seafire, I see over on 24 Hour campfire you are still working on the reduced loads. Hey you done any thing with the 7/08, 120gr. yet? I see you crono'ed some of the other stuff. You told me to use 20-25gr's of sr4759; but I can go as low as 15. Any velocities yet?

I also recommend SR4759.

I use it for light loads in the 308.

How does it perform in the .308? I'm setting it up for a 7 year old and recoil is a important factor.

Slim,

Haven't done the full load research on this, but here is some numbers I can put out here...

you should find something you like and can use in there...

7/08 Savage, 26 inch barrel

1. 30 grains H 4198:
a. 100 grain Hornady: 2675 fps
b. 139 grain Hornady: 2408 fps

2. IMR 4198, 30 grains:
a. 100 grain Hornady: 2723 fps
b. 139 grain Hornady: 2445 fps

3. SR 4759/ 25 grs:
a. 100 grain Hornady: 2601 fps
b. 139 grain Hornady: 2284 fps

4. 30 grains H 4198:
a. 120 gr Sierra: 2474 fps
b. 130 gr Sierra: 2424 fps

5. 30 grains of IMR 4198:
a. 120 gr Sierra: 2552 fps
b. 130 gr Sierra: 2478 fps

6. 25 grains of SR 4759:
a. 120 gr Sierra: 2444 fps
b. 130 gr Sierra; 2377 fps

7. 30 grs of RL 7:
a. 120 gr Sierra: 2521 fps
b. 130 gr Sierra: 2441 fps

as far as accuracy with the Savage with an ER Shaw 7/08 barrel:



or:



or:



acuracy of all the IMR 4198 and RL 7 loads were like these, regardless of bullet at 100 yds...

the charge weight I used was 30 grains of either powder...

25 grains of SR 4759 proved to be as accurate, I just haven't posted targets on the net for those yet...

but as you can see, the ER Shaw barrel is doing a good job with them...especially considering I am using regular old hunting bullets, nothing special...

quote:

Originally posted by slim5010:
How does it perform in the .308? I'm setting it up for a 7 year old and recoil is a important factor.

My loads were with the Speer 100gr Plinker.
Start with 15 gr.
19gr of SR4759 is max.

When my Nephew [he was 10 but he is 11 now] first started hunting deer, pigs and turkey he used, and still uses the Remington 125gr Managed Recoil.

It kills game great. I have taken deer and wild pigs with it as well.

Post corrected for TYPO. THE POWDER IS SR 4759.

N E 450 No2
Why did you stop at 19gr? I see Seafire went up to 25gr. with a heavier bullet.

A note on reduced Blue Dot loads in rifles. I talked to Mike at Hodgdon a couple weeks ago about the 257 Weatherby Magnum blow up that was with a reduced Blue Dot load and jacketed bullet. You may have read it here. Mike was very into to this. It's his believe that it wasn't a double charge or whatever, but more caused by the primer blowing the bullet into the bore before the powder gets ignited. Thus when the powder lights you have a bore obstruction. He said the powder is fine, BUT to crimp the bullet to prevent the bullet from jumping or at least give the powder a chance to ignite.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by slim5010:
N E 450 No2
Why did you stop at 19gr? I see Seafire went up to 25gr. with a heavier bullet.

There is a little difference between 4756 and 4759. roger

Thanks, I'm at work and when I read it I didn't even motice that NE 450 No2 used 4756 vs. 4759.

GENTLEMEN, SORRY BUT I MADE A TYPO.

THE POWDER I USED WAS SR 4759.

Just for informational purposes, my charge of 25 grains of SR 4759, the reference was the old IMR brown sheet they use to give out before Hodgdon owned them...

their max was actually higher than 25 grains in both the 7/08 and 308, but in 308 sized cases, like the 243, the max is 25 grains... so I just standardized on that for ANY 308 sized case.....

Slim,

I had a similar issue only I was dealing with a headstron determined 4.5yr old who was insistant on shooting his own hog.

After many considerations, and trying him out holding up several different rifles he ended up using my Ruger Compact in .308. One of the issues was it only weighs 6.5lbs fully loaded, the other was he only went about 50 fully loaded.

I tried out several of the already mentioned powders but settled on the H4895 loads from Hodgdon. One reason being I could simply continue working up the scale until I hit the standard load max with the same powder.

I went with the BT's at first, however switched after them not exiting on a broadside shot coyote. I went with the 130gr Barnes TTriple Shock, and now am loading the Tipped version. Velocities have been very consistent, as have groups. In fact, the loads have been the most accurate I have ever loaded for this rifle, even with the grandson shooting.

If you have a chance to try them out I would not pass it up. You might be somewhat surprised. I have not noted the issue with one load shooting way different than another as we have moved up the scale or even changing bullets.

Good luck with your young ones, I know I have enjoyed many hours of shooting with the boy as he has learned to shoot and hunt. This year he will 8 and hopefully will get his first deer, he already has several hogs under his belt, and has had a grand time over the past few years.

Two shots from him at 180 yds,


First hog, just before his fifth birthday,


First Yote, right after he turned 6,

MKE/TX,

FINE JOB

So the Hodgdon loads that you tried worked out well....
At 5 years old it wasn't to much recoil??
Did you have him shoot with the gun locked down or did he just shoot off bags/bipod?

Did you reduce the load below what the Hodgdon reduced load called for?

What ever it was it did the job!!!

quote:

Originally posted by slim5010:
MKE/TX,

FINE JOB

So the Hodgdon loads that you tried worked out well....
At 5 years old it wasn't to much recoil??
Did you have him shoot with the gun locked down or did he just shoot off bags/bipod?

Did you reduce the load below what the Hodgdon reduced load called for?

What ever it was it did the job!!!

Back from out in the boonies now, so to answer your questions,

At 5 years old it wasn't to much recoil??

The first couple of rounds popped him pretty good. However he was determined and after a little coaching on how to hold the stock better on his shoulder he got into it pretty well. We started off slow with only three or four rounds then swapped over to a .30 Carbine simply for trigger time and noise association. He actually did quite well with the Carbine but I did not feel it was up to the task with the particular loads we were shooting.

Did you have him shoot with the gun locked down or did he just shoot off bags/bipod?

He never shot the rifle locked down, always from either off bags or a rest similar to what we would use while hunting, (either Stoney Point rest or one I built for him to use while hunting out of a pop up.) as I wanted him to be as familiart with field shooting as I could get him.

Did you reduce the load below what the Hodgdon reduced load called for?

No, never backed it lower than the Start loads. I did use several bullets with each change of the load however, which I felt would be better depending on what and where we were hunting. If we were strictly hunting the hogs, I had some Alaskan 135gr Bonded core handgun bullets loaded for him to give more of a punch, but we never used them. I also had some 130gr Speer's loaded which we never used as well. Once he got the coyote and I found the ballistic tip did not exit on a broadside shot, I switched over to the Barnes TSX and we never looked back. He now has the TTSX and likes them much better due to the blue tips being "cooler".

Last time we were shooting however he decided that he liked my daughter's 6.5x55 and shot it very well and decided to start using it and let me have my .308 back, to the daughter's displeasure. I think her response was something along the lines of,"what the hell, did I just loose my rifle or what?", to which I laughed and replied,"yep, welcome to my world".

Hey Seafire2, I saw on another forum that you were going to do some more work on the 7mm08 and SR4759 powder.I tried to crono. but the crono. here at work is given wrong readings....(someone must have dropped it). I worked up some loads; 20gr. and 25grs. SR4759 and they shot O.K. Do have any velocities down yet?