I have a collection of reloading components from the '40's, '50's, and 60's, and am worried about the powders going bad (some have), and having them light-off in my house (either by themselves, or in a forest fire).

I know about the 100 year old Bullseye story.

To test this out I took some old 4895 and some Unique, and soaked them in water for a few days. I dried them out and shot them in a rifle and handgun. Both performed perfect and shot to same POI as the test samples.

Does this sound like a good idea to preserve these old powders (even though it would be hard to break the seals on them)?

Sounds like a very bad and potentially dangerous idea to me.

Powder can be stored in labratory conditions in water but there are too many things to go way wrong to recommend the idea.

The best idea is to store you powders in exactly the way the manufacturers recommend. A cool dry place in original containers. Invest in a dehumidifyer and a fire extinguisher if you are worried..........................DJ

Yeah, +2

I wouldn't dry it in a micro wave...

Seriously, I think powder is like wine, it can be stored ony so long and should be consumed on time.

quote:

Seriously, I think powder is like wine, it can be stored ony so long and should be consumed on time.

Good way to put it DUK. My "working powders" do get used ASAP, but these vintage powders I have held onto as they seemed like reloading history to me. Mabey some day I will post some pics of my collection.

I probebly will put these powders under water, as I don't plan on shooting them. This way there is a better chance that they will survive, and I reduce my chance of fire in my house.

DougH,

why not just keep the cans without content?

I know, I know, collector's passions are sometimes beyond reason. Don't ask me how I know...

Some of the powders are extuded and cut underwater, then dried. Even black powder was milled wet. But storing powder in water will eventually ruin it. Water is solvent, a weak one but still a solvent. In time you'll have a nice collecton of mush.

FWIW, they are still selling ammo and pull down powder from WW2. Some of which was not stored in ideal places, and it still goes bang.... mostly.

Col. Nonte wrote a book that went into powder making in some detail. He said that "ball" powders are quite water proof and the manufacturer stores them in water at a huge reduction insurance costs. Both before and after they are packed for commercial sale.

At the same time, IMR powders are hydroscopic. They will suck humidity water out of the air.

Keith told a story of competing, Camp Perry I think, they got there, weighed charges carefully, set the powder measures, and never weighed another charge 'CAUSE the change in humidity would change the weight. Volume was more reliable. I wouldn't. Cool and dry is just to easy to have in modern housing. Your call.

Thanks for all of the replies. One problem is that my house has no heat or air conditioning, so the inside temps range from 37 on a snowy night to 90 on a hot summer day (I am in the California mountains).

I guess I just need to find and off-site place to keep the powders and let them age gracefully.

BTW-I have taken several deer with these old components in my pre '64 Model 70's. One combo used some Hogdon H4676 (ever heard of that?), CCI primers, and Sierra bullets (marked "Harris Machine Works"), all from the mid 50's I guess. Shot as accurate as current stuff, and took a deer on a 20 degree morning.

Interesting thread.

Although it is true that water is a solvent, there are things which neither interact with water, nor are soluble in water. Whether that applies to smokeless gunpowder, I am not certain. I don't think it is soluble in water, but That is a question I would ask at a chemist's forum.

An alternative, of course, is take a couple of small samples of powder and store THEM under water for a year or two and check every month or so to see how they are doing. If there was no visible deterioration in two years, I'd not worry farther about it.

I have a sizeable amount of older powders, and have the same worries as you. Just haven't gotten off my butt to do anything about it yet.

No matter how you store it, one of the important things if you store it in your residence is to build/buy an adequate container (or several containers) with wheels, put the powder in it (them) and keep them where you can quickly wheel them outside if necessary.

Even then, if you get spontaneous ignition of any amount over a few ounces, it is probably bye-bye to house and home if they are kept inside.

Hey DougH9, I've learned somehting new today. I had no idea people retained "old" Powders, for any reason. I do not mean that mean-spirited, I thought Collectors just retained the Cans/Containers.

I have some "older" Powders simply because I found something better for a specific Load. I use my "older" Powders for Fire Forming and Plinking and had never considered keeping it just to have.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
I had no idea people retained "old" Powders, for any reason.

I have some "older" Powders simply because I found something better for a specific Load. I use my "older" Powders for Fire Forming and Plinking and had never considered keeping it just to have.

Best of luck to you.

Me neither, HC...I keep my old powders because I like to be able to try out old loads I run across in the books from the '30s & '40s. I'd like to have some of the powders from the turn of the 20th Century, too, but that is a rather impractical wish.

For one thing it is darned hard to find. for another, it can be pretty dangerous to store. They had not come close to perfecting removal of all the manufacturing acids from many of the early powders...and the breakdown of the powders from those acids is one of the major reputed causes of spontaneous combution as those powders age.

But don't you wish you could get some nice Modite propellant from about 1905-1910 to try out the actual performqnce of WDM Bell's 6.5s back in his "Hey-day"? I'd like to shoot some in various ambient temps, and run some across a modern chronograph, just to see what he was actually relying on for plunking all those ele's.

I wonder if using distilled water would be beneficial?
You could always dig a nice hole in the ground for your storage, more consistant year round temperature. FS

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
...But don't you wish you could get some nice Modite propellant from about 1905-1910 to try out the actual performqnce of WDM Bell's 6.5s back in his "Hey-day"? I'd like to shoot some in various ambient temps, and run some across a modern chronograph, just to see what he was actually relying on for plunking all those ele's.

Hey AC, From a curiosity standpoint, I can see where knowing what the folks of those bygone eras actually used would be very interesting.

The Acid you mention probably explains why all the old Powder Cans I've ever seen had a good bit of Rust and small holes in them. As I think about it, a Powder Can Collector may have told me about the Acid a very long time ago, but I'm not sure.

Even the IMR Cans of my generation would begin Rusting on the outside due to the high humidity where I've lived. I always figured a Rusting Can meant I wasn't shooting enough of that Powder. Back then the Labels would come off the Hodgdon Jugs fairly easily, I'd wash them out and refill with some of the IMR Powders. Don't know if I still have any like that or not. But if I do, I'll do my best to use it up.
-----

Anyway, I wish Doug the best of luck with his Powders.

Water is the " Universal solvent " and will deteriorate most anything over time !.

" A BAD BAD Idea " storing in water !.

If you have a vacuum source and decent seal bags use that method .

A food saver vacuum system works very well , simply dbl fold the bag so as to not let the powder

be sucked into the vacuum stream . If using a vacuum such as a shop vac and plain sealing bags

then use pantyhose over the vacuum's suction nozzle and again Dbl. fold bag so as to not suck up the powder .

Best long term storage of most anything is the absence of air . Even inert gases can be introduced

if necessary . For fire danger , make an appropriate size chest line the inside with fire brick

or at least a non combustible material . 5/8 drywall , use a Dbl layer out side of the chest .

If your really paranoid about fire , either spray it with fire gel or bury it .

If you decide to bury it , make absolutely sure of TWO THINGS . A completely water tight chest with

seals and if possible positive air pressure 5lb. and up too 15 lb. is plenty . Last thing

" REMEMBER WHERE YOU BURY IT " !.

This is For all of you . A bit of information , please remember what Powder is made from

as it is soluble in water !. Look at your wife's hand lotion ingredients and tell me what you see !!.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
" REMEMBER WHERE YOU BURY IT " !.

Funny! We found about 35 lbs of high explosive buried in a trash pile on the lease once. By the looks of it (cast boosters, gel and some det cord) it had been there 10 or more years. We put a Tannerite next to it and WHAM!

We forgot to alert the rest of the hunters and in seconds our buddy called from his stand about 800 yds up the sendero..."MY GAWD! WHAT WAS THAT!?".

Odd, he knew just who to call....

Hijack over.

only in Texas

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
This is For all of you . A bit of information , please remember what Powder is made from

as it is soluble in water !. Look at your wife's hand lotion ingredients and tell me what you see !!.

Sorry Doc, but comparing hand lotion with gelatinized nitrocellulose just doesn't get it with me for an explanation. A better comparison would be smokeless gun powder and early movie film and/or cellophane, and I don't recall either of those dissolving in water with any particular rapidity.

What, specifically, makes you think plasticized cellulose is water soluble? Perhaps you could provide some scientific references for that statement?

Then if you are correct, we can all agree quite gracefully with you. But without more info, I can't accept an unsupported statement or opinion quite yet.

Not trying to give you a bad time, and you may be right, but I don't see enough evidence to reach a verdict yet.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doc224/375:
if necessary . For fire danger , make an appropriate size chest line the inside with fire brick

QUOTE]



That's quite contrary to the recommendations of most fire authorities, and against both the model fire code and most federal and local fire codes, as well as powder magazine codes.

They specifically list 1" wood sides for containers RATHER than fire bricks so as to NOT confine the powder more than enough to allow it to be moved easily & securely, if need be.

After all, the powder provides its own oxygen source, so it doesn't have to be prevented from getting external oxygen to deflagrate. And because what we are discussing here is the possibility of spontaneous combustion, NOT combustion from external sources, fire brick protection from external heat or other ignition sources is not an issue.

And, burning powder gives off great quantitites of gas... so the more it is confined, the greater the pressure build up as those gases are produced, and the hotter it burns. The hotter it burns, the quicker it burns, and the quicker it gives off even more gas. Repeat, repeat, etc....a vicious circle.

So, if one dreads spotaneous combustion, but still doesn't mind building a potential bomb, use fire brick. But, it's safer to use the recommended materials established in magazine codes.

As far as water being a "universal solvent", many water containing "solutions" are not really solutions at all, but "suspensions". Ever try dissolving oil in water?

You could always "wet store" them like tank shells in modern tanks! Make up a large box with a series of vertical plastic tubes in it that will hold the powder canisters.

Put the powder canisters in these and fill the spaces between these tubes and the large box with water.

That way if the canister catches fire it is already surrounded by water that will extinguish it when the tune walls melt.

But there is a simpler way to achieve the same effect!

Personally I would store as manufacturers say. A good large at least one inch thick stout wooden box is actually pretty fire proof as the fire from your powders would be quick and intense.

Maybe lined with metal?

Some people use such a box in an large old metal filing type cabinet.

So not enough actually to ignite anything outside the box! But with large enough room for gas expansion.

Now, stick a few thin walled plastic bottles filled with water in that box with them and you've got your "wet storage" if your wooden box is relatively leak proof...which it should be if well made with the wood planks tight up against each other.

If a canister catches fire it will melt the plastic bottle and liberate the water which your tightly made wooden box will contain long enough to douse the fire.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
You could always "wet store" them like tank shells in modern tanks! Make up a large box with a series of vertical plastic tubes in it that will hold the powder canisters.

Put the powder canisters in these and fill the spaces between these tubes and the large box with water.

That way if the canister catches fire it is already surrounded by water that will extinguish it when the tune walls melt.

Personally I would store as manufacturers say. A good large at least one inch thick stout wooden box is actually pretty fire proof as the fire from your powders would be quick and intense.

Maybe lined with metal?

Some people use such a box in an old metal filing type cabinet.

So not enough actually to ignite anything outside the box!

The problem isn't one of just burning, it is that as gas pressure builds, the container may "explode". the trick is to let the container rupture and release the gas before enough pressure can build up to cause an explosion.

In a way, it is kind of parallel to what we do in working up a cartridge load...we want the bullet to move on and release the pressure before it builds enough to explode the container...the gun.

OK, I've emailed Alliant for an authorative answer on this topic. There are two different internet stories about an early lot of Unique from 1899 at the Alliant facility for reference. One version says it's in a big jar for over 100 years, and the other says it has been stored in a big jar of distilled water for over 100 years. Both versions say it burns to spec, the water version when a sample is dried out. Hopefully their answer will settle this question!

Oops, I posted too late. I was pretty close with my memory though!

I don't recall exactly where I read this, either Handloader mag or The American Rifleman some years ago. I believe it was Hercules Bullseye powder from 100 years ago. The factory QC department had it stored in water and about every decade they dried some out and test fired it. It was just as potent as newly made Bullseye. I even think there was a pic of a clear jar with the powder in the water or whatever other liquid would be appropriate.

I can't be the only one who remembers it. Can I?

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
OK, I've emailed Alliant for an authorative answer on this topic. There are two different internet stories about an early lot of Unique from 1899 at the Alliant facility for reference. One version says it's in a big jar for over 100 years, and the other says it has been stored in a big jar of distilled water for over 100 years. Both versions say it burns to spec, the water version when a sample is dried out. Hopefully their answer will settle this question!

Good move. Hope their answer is a scientifically backed one, not just some opinion from a customer service rep who doesn't know chemistry from basketball.



Something else to think about until they answer...

Most of the powder made in the U.S. right now is made of cellulose from wood...the same kind of wood found in TREES.

And the most valuable tree timber currently being logged in the U.S. may well be stuff which has been underwater for up to 100 years or so. Has the water dissolved it? NO!! It has actually protected it and the wood is as sound as the day it was first surrounded by the water.

So much for the universal solvent theory?

quote:

Originally posted by iiranger:
At the same time, IMR powders are hydroscopic. They will suck humidity water out of the air.

Actually, gunpowder is not hydroscopic. It is hygroscopic. G instead of D. But you new that.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
So much for the universal solvent theory?

I always thought acrylic lacquer thinner was the universal solvent.

?

Interesting thread! Now how many of us are going to store our powder in water? I have more powder than most and I'm not about to bother. roger

You might want to ask your self why powder doesn't come packed in water ?. Or storage instructions that

include water storage ?. I believe the local fire dept. would be happier if it was !.

AC ; I understand your reservations concerning powder storage in an enclosed area . No gun shop or

powder retailer that I know of is allowed to store powder in a wooden container !.

Further more I didn't specify what the container was to be made of Only what would be a suitable

lining material , in regards too fire prevention I E Dbl. 5/8 drywall !.

If gas build up from burning is the concern , your storage solution has FAILED !!!.

As I believe the object was to maintain the powders integrity and provide a safe long term storage solution was it not ?.

LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL SECURITY

Energetic compositions are a heterogeneous composite of oxidizer, fuel, binder and other additives such as plasticizers, burning rate modifiers and curing agents. The heterogeneous nature of the material lends itself to lot-to-lot production variability as well as a wide variety of aging processes. Both production variability and aging have been noted as possible contributors to propellant performance problems. Moderate environmental conditions may have little impact on the service life of energetic formulations, however temperature extremes, temperature cycling, and drastic humidity changes may have a more significant impact in a short period of time. Aging studies, spectroscopy, and mechanical testing have focused on the polymer binder, typically hydroxyl-terminated polybutadiene (HTPB), used in composite propellants.

Polymer binders provide both mechanical integrity and adhesion for the composite. Other composite ingredients have received less attention, such ingredients including, e.g., plasticizers, stabilizers or burn rate modifiers. Propellant research indicates that the concentration of certain components such as the polymer binder and oxidizer change very little with time. However, plasticizer evaporation and diffusion is quite common and may possibly contribute to the mechanical properties and physical aging of the composite, especially at extreme storage conditions,high humidity dampness or hydro saturation . A method for uncontrolled delivery of all, or a portion of other composite ingredients could lead to a more unbalanced concentration profile of such ingredients within the composite. This could lead to an unstable base and there for become a safety concern .


Nitrocellulose deteriorates with time, yielding acidic byproducts. Those byproducts catalyze the further deterioration, increasing its rate. The released heat, in case of bulk storage of the powder, or too large blocks of solid propellant, can cause self-ignition of the material. Single-base nitrocellulose propellants are most susceptible to degradation; double-base and triple-base propellants tend to deteriorate more slowly. To neutralize the decomposition products, which could otherwise cause corrosion of metals of the cartridges and gun barrels, calcium carbonate is added to some formulations.

To prevent buildup of the deterioration products, stabilizers are added. Diphenylamine is one of the most common stabilizers used. Nitrated analogs of diphenylamine formed in the process of stabilizing decomposing powder are sometimes used as stabilizers themselves.[8][9] The stabilizers are added in the amount of 0.5-2% of the total amount of the formulation; higher amounts tend to degrade its ballistic properties. The amount of the stabilizer is depleted with time. Propellants in storage should be periodically tested on the remaining amount of stabilizer, as its depletion may lead to auto-ignition of
the propellant.

Diphenylamine is the organic compound with the formula (C6H5)2NH. It is a color less solid, but
samples are often yellow due to oxidized impurities. ( Which is all to common in powder manufacturing ! )

C6H5NH2 → (C6H5)2NH + NH3

It is a weak base, with a KB of 10-14. With strong acids, it forms the water soluble salt.

Diphenylamine is only slightly soluble in water, but more soluble in polar organic solvents.
A water depending on mineral composition may qualify for a weak polar solvent !.

Calcium carbonate CaCO3 water soluble !.

http://www.sheffield-pottery.c...efractories_s/24.htm

http://www.vaultandsafe.com/fi...fe_information.shtml

I'm all to aware of powder magazine storage regulations , which by the way vary from county too county

with in a state in some cases . I also used to haul 60K Lb. of explosives for Hercules too Union Carbide

twice a month 44 years ago . So save the lecture on box and magazine storage for the kids !.

Store it how you will , I prefer mine dry and cool with absence of air . Still using powder that

I purchased in 1965 . Have yet to have an accident concerning powder storage or driving for that matter
!.

AC ; Ever bother to find out why they never stored the old nitrocellulose film in

water ?. Rather opted for controlled temp and humidity didn't they !!!.

Thanks Triggergaurd for e-mailing Alliant for some info...I look forward to their response.

This all started years ago when I noticed that there were no US made magnum class rifle powders (the last one was Olin WMR in the early '90's I belive). I wanted US powders for my hunting loads, and I found that I could get US made, real DuPont No.4350, and others (ever heard of Herqules RL-21?) at gunshows, and I started hunting with all of these old components. I also like that they were the same components as mentioned in the old books I read (when I found some 30 cal Western Tool & Copper Works open points, I had to have them after reading Jack talk about them).

The old yellow box lathe turned Noslers are one of my favorites, and I have quite a collection of them.

?

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:


And the most valuable tree timber currently being logged in the U.S. may well be stuff which has been underwater for up to 100 years or so. Has the water dissolved it? NO!! It has actually protected it and the wood is as sound as the day it was first surrounded by the water.

So much for the universal solvent theory?

True, but that is specific only to a relatively few trees, cypress here in the US. I think there are other types of wood in other parts of the world. I can tell you from experience a pecan trunk will be lucky to make 24 months before it's rotted away.

Back to the core topic: even if the powder can be stored in water (distilled or not) the can is another matter. That is the context of the post and I can't believe that it would be healthy for the collecible steel can to go that route. I suppose one could store the powder separately but what's the point?

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Oops, I posted too late. I was pretty close with my memory though!

I don't recall exactly where I read this, either Handloader mag or The American Rifleman some years ago. I believe it was Hercules Bullseye powder from 100 years ago. The factory QC department had it stored in water and about every decade they dried some out and test fired it. It was just as potent as newly made Bullseye. I even think there was a pic of a clear jar with the powder in the water or whatever other liquid would be appropriate.

I can't be the only one who remembers it. Can I?

I remember it, and what I saw wasn't an article. It was a full page color ad on the back cover of either Handloader or Rifle Magazine. I've saving those mags for the last 15 years, I could probably find it with some digging. And yes, there was a picture of the powder in the water in the lab storage jar.

I too remember seeing the article. The point that I would make is that it's one thing to do something in a lab and another to do so in other conditions..............................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:


And the most valuable tree timber currently being logged in the U.S. may well be stuff which has been underwater for up to 100 years or so. Has the water dissolved it? NO!! It has actually protected it and the wood is as sound as the day it was first surrounded by the water.

So much for the universal solvent theory?

True, but that is specific only to a relatively few trees, cypress here in the US. I think there are other types of wood in other parts of the world. I can tell you from experience a pecan trunk will be lucky to make 24 months before it's rotted away.

Back to the core topic: even if the powder can be stored in water (distilled or not) the can is another matter. That is the context of the post and I can't believe that it would be healthy for the collecible steel can to go that route. I suppose one could store the powder separately but what's the point?

Well, I don't believe it is Cypress here in the Pacific NW...in fact I think (but am not sure) it may be Doug Fir, as most of the logs were lost in the float down stream from the falling sites. The trees logged most in the NW were probably Doug Fir, Cedar, Spruce, various Pines, Redwood, and a very little Hemlock...plus the various hardwoods....not Cypress in this part of the country.

Either way, rotten wood is not caused by the water, but by the bacteria in the water. Have you ever seen gelatinized cellulose "rot"?

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
You might want to ask your self why powder doesn't come packed in water ?. Or storage instructions that

include water storage ?. I believe the local fire dept. would be happier if it was !.

Having been a Deputy Chief of a California Fire Department, I suspect they would be, but then they are always telling news reporters how the ammo stored in a house which caught fire was threatening the lives of all the firefighters, too.

May I suggest that because it is relatively new to its cannisters, and carefully inspected/tested powder, shipping in water would be un-needed? And because of the weight of water, needlessly expensive.

AC ; I understand your reservations concerning powder storage in an enclosed area . No gun shop or

powder retailer that I know of is allowed to store powder in a wooden container !.

In that case, you need to check BATF Dealers' regs. Therein, under storage of powders, it clearly specifies 1" wooden sides for the container. so do many local fire ordinances and the national Model Fire Code. BATF also goes so far as to answer inquiries with the info that the 1" isn't held to mean EXACTLY 1", but whatever the thickness of nominally traded 1" planks may be.



Further more I didn't specify what the container was to be made of Only what would be a suitable

lining material , in regards too fire prevention I E Dbl. 5/8 drywall !.

If gas build up from burning is the concern , your storage solution has FAILED !!!.

As I believe the object was to maintain the powders integrity and provide a safe long term storage solution was it not ?.

LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL SECURITY

Where my son worked until two years ago?

Energetic compositions are a heterogeneous composite of oxidizer, fuel, binder and other additives such as plasticizers, burning rate modifiers and curing agents. Both production variability and aging have been noted as possible contributors to propellant performance problems. Moderate environmental conditions may have little impact on the service life of energetic formulations, however temperature extremes, temperature cycling, and drastic humidity changes may have a more significant impact in a short period of time.

Note that this refers to variability of temp and humidity as the villain, not the mere presence of either.


Aging studies, spectroscopy, and mechanical testing have focused on the polymer binder, typically hydroxyl-terminated polybutadiene (HTPB), used in composite propellants.

Polymer binders provide both mechanical integrity and adhesion for the composite. Other composite ingredients have received less attention, such ingredients including, e.g., plasticizers, stabilizers or burn rate modifiers. Propellant research indicates that the concentration of certain components such as the polymer binder and oxidizer change very little with time. However, plasticizer evaporation and diffusion is quite common and may possibly contribute to the mechanical properties and physical aging of the composite, especially at extreme storage conditions,high humidity dampness or hydro saturation . A method for uncontrolled delivery of all, or a portion of other composite ingredients could lead to a more unbalanced concentration profile of such ingredients within the composite. This could lead to an unstable base and there for become a safety concern .

Unfortunately, as they say, this has not really been tested.


Nitrocellulose deteriorates with time, yielding acidic byproducts. Those byproducts catalyze the further deterioration, increasing its rate. The released heat, in case of bulk storage of the powder, or too large blocks of solid propellant, can cause self-ignition of the material. Single-base nitrocellulose propellants are most susceptible to degradation; double-base and triple-base propellants tend to deteriorate more slowly. To neutralize the decomposition products, which could otherwise cause corrosion of metals of the cartridges and gun barrels, calcium carbonate is added to some formulations.

To prevent buildup of the deterioration products, stabilizers are added. Diphenylamine is one of the most common stabilizers used. Nitrated analogs of diphenylamine formed in the process of stabilizing decomposing powder are sometimes used as stabilizers themselves.[8][9] The stabilizers are added in the amount of 0.5-2% of the total amount of the formulation; higher amounts tend to degrade its ballistic properties. The amount of the stabilizer is depleted with time. Propellants in storage should be periodically tested on the remaining amount of stabilizer, as its depletion may lead to auto-ignition of
the propellant.

It may also be worth noting that acids from this aging is the primary fear. And how are acids removed from powders? By immersing it in WATER! It is called, as you likely know, "water-drying", meaning cleaning off of the acid by removing it with the water when the water is removed and the powder dried, No?





I also used to haul 60K Lb. of explosives for Hercules too Union Carbide

twice a month 44 years ago . So save the lecture on box and magazine storage for the kids !.


I'm not sure how driving a truck load (or 100) of powder qualifies one in this field. My dad used to drive nitroglycerine tankers in WWII, but he didn't know sweet tweet about it chemically....just that you damned sure went slower than slow and tried like crazy to avoid bumps.

Store it how you will , I prefer mine dry and cool with absence of air . Still using powder that

I purchased in 1965 . Have yet to have an accident concerning powder storage or driving for that matter

And I am still shooting Hi-Vel #2 in some of my rifles. They quit cannistering that in 1964. I also load my .404 Jeff with Cordite made before the 1930's. I don't store either in water and DO store it in a temp & humidity controlled room (50% humidity and 69-71 degree temp). But the important point to me is that those factors do not fluctuate
!.

AC ; Ever bother to find out why they never stored the old nitrocellulose film in

water ?. Rather opted for controlled temp and humidity didn't they !!!.

Yes they did, and they didn't opt for bone dry either, did they? They wanted to avoid variations in both temp and humidity.

Anyway, it has been an interesting chat with you. As you may see, there is much yet to potentially be debated but, honestly I doubt there would be much profit from continuing from this point.

I think I'll just go eat supper instead.

Best wishes,

AC

I'm not going to argue a pointless matter , yet will simply rebut two points . READ THE POSTERS INITIAL POST !.

To test this out I took some old 4895 and some Unique, and soaked them in water for a few days. I dried them out and shot them in a rifle and handgun. Both performed perfect and shot to same POI as the test samples.

Does this sound like a good idea to preserve these old powders (even though it would be hard to break the seals on them)?

I them posted the following .

Water is the " Universal solvent " and will deteriorate most anything over time !.

" A BAD BAD Idea " storing in water !. ( Perhaps I should have specified DIRECTLY IN WATER but

seeing as the poster was doing just that I felt it was unnecessary !.

As for qualification aside from my doctorate in organic chemistry how about . The manufacturing of

powders including commercial gelatin for Hercules later to become Alliant Powder for several years !!!.

A last note I was in a Turners gunshop last week checking on primers , CCi were available but little

else . I then turned my attention too the powder safe , just to look at prices . Imagine my shock and

awe the powder is stored inside an upright vault safe !. AS PER REQUIRED IN THIS COUNTY !!!.

P S ; I saw no wood lining the inside or out side of that safe ???. Want me to snap a picture or am I

still good for my word !. They only sell 1 lb. canisters and are limited too the number of canisters they can have on premises .

OK! After 738 people have read this thread and some small number have answered it , how many of you are going to store their powder in water???? Fess up now. My guess is NONE. roger