Who still likes round nose bullets ?? Do they feel that the loss they get in BC is out weighed by there performance. Do they perform better for your applications. Were do they fit in today's world of High Ballistic coefficient bullets ?? I would like to hear peoples experiences and opinions on this matter.
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
Roundnose bullets really look great! For my .375 hh I occasionly load the 300 gr RN Hornady for the looks only, I know, I�ve lost it... Apart from that I hear some people think they actually kill faster, transmit more shock, I don�t buy that however and other arguments like they go straighter trough bushes etc. has been proven wrong over and over, nothing shoots trough heavy bush. Apart from looking right they offer only diadvantages in my opinion. Tron
RN bullets are shorter weight for weight and have more weight up front. As a result they are inherently more stable in the field.
They tend to set up or expand more quickly and exhibit less deviation in the wound channel due to the above properties. The blunt nose also means that even without expansion extra trauma is likely.
What does this mean in the field. Well with my 154gr Hornady RN I have a bullet that kills 20lb muntjac instantly without hardly expanding, knocks over deer at point blank range without coming apart, is the most stable bullet on twigs I've ever come across and bloody accurate.
It's downside is that it drops more and is more windprone so it is not ideal for long range windy open spaces. Consequently it is not the perfect allround bullet for the one rifle man who must on occasion take shots in such situations.
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001
so you defintely see advantages with the round nose bullets, in reality though do you think one is that disadvataged by using a round nose if all there shooting is within 300 yards max and mostlt between 50-150 yards ??
Funny you say that they are reliable killers as once you step up to .416 and above the amount of round nose bullet offerings may out strip non round nose styles.
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
I'll chip in for round nose bullets as well. They are not for all occasions - given their poor ballistic coefficient. Still, I like them. It seems to me that round nose bullets kill well. Now I know that every man and his dog think that their particular bullets are the best available. Neither do I *always* experience immediate ("lights-out") kills with round nose bullets. But,,, with the limited experience of one hunter, I get good results with round nose bullets.
There are other hunting situations than the one I experience on a daily basis, they often call for different tools. No problem with that. We primarily shoot fairly thin skinned animals (red deer, roe deer and chamois) at distances up to, say, 300 yds. I find "premium" bullets often fail to anchor my animals (possibly has to do with expansion characteristics??). So I resort to old fashioned, round nose, standard bullets (e.g. Rem Core Lokt).
Pity that round nose bullets are going out of fashion, they are becoming increasingly hard to find.
- mike
Posts: 6653 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: 11 March 2002
MHO, I am thinking that to 300 yards the round nose bullet would not be at that much of a disadvantage and 300 yards in most instances is as far as I would want to shoot at game other than rabbits with my 22/250 and even at that I must have a good rest to get a clean kill.
I have had good experiences with flat point style bullets in my 45/70, they kill well, and I feel the round nose is the bridge between pointed styles and flat noses.
woodleigh still make round noses as do speer.
I agree with trb in that they look classy.
I would like to hear about game taken with RN's and the calibre used/bullet brand and how did the bullet perform.
[ 01-16-2003, 16:14: Message edited by: PC ]
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
I love RN's, as well (not exclusively, though). For all the reasons listed above, etc.
I've used them in my .270 WCF for whitetail deer with "lights-out" effect.
Unfortunately, within the last couple of years, both Sierra and Hornady have stopped making their 150-gr. RN's in .277". I've also seen some .308" RN's disappear from some catalogs, lately.
A bunch of places are still selling their remaining stock, though. You just have to look and ask. But, after that's gone...no more.
RSY
Posts: 785 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 01 October 2001
quote:Originally posted by PC: if everyone starts buying a couple of boxes they may bring some of there offerings back ??
Arguably, the 215 grains RN bullet was the best hunting load ever for the .303 British, as old-timers will tell you. I recently managed to secure an old Remington box. But ammo companies are notorious for their stupidity and lack of caring for market demands...
Carcano
Posts: 2452 | Location: Old Europe | Registered: 23 June 2001
I also have found that the RN bullets perform well out to 300 yards or less. Fact is, I find them to be the among most accurate loads I've built for my Rem. 700's, Swedish Mauser's and Swiss K-31!
Further, I'm finding (in the U.S. of A.) no troubles locating unlimited supplies from Hornady, Speer or Sierra, through the normal venders. Such as, Midway, Natchez, Midsouth or even T&T Reloading Supply. At least in .308 and .264 diameters.
TRB I too think the Hornady 160g RN SP bullet looks just mean as damn-it sitting atop the 6.5 Swede cases and have no doubts that should I take it hunting it would (if I do my part) make short work of the receiving beast!
Looks like the genral consensus is that round nose bullets kill & perform better at normal hunting ranges which I say is to about 300 yards. Past that my shooting ability wanes.
At the same token not that many responses so it seems like the last bastion of RN users is on this thread.
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
The round nose bullet design is primarily used in Africa in the big four cartridges at ranges under 100 yards. The round nose bullet design has lost ground in the USA because of the evolution of several very good pointed and semipointed bullet designs. The round nose bullet has always produced very good mushrooming performance. It lacks longer range trajectory characteristics and few hunters like them for that reason. Hunters want flat trajectory, failsafe mushroom characteristics, and top accuracy potential in their hunting bullets. The pointed soft point bullets now produced give them all those qualities.
As there are many very soft spire points on the market, not to mention insert-tips, I don't see RNs have any significant advantage except in tubular magazines. (I consider a magazine detonation to be a rather significant event)
Posts: 612 | Location: Atlanta, GA USA | Registered: 19 June 2000
RNs are another victim of magnum mania. If anyone can tell me where I can get some of the old Speer 220 grn 8mm RNs Id love to get my hands on some of those. Unfortunatley they were replaced with the 200 grn spitzers some years ago.
Posts: 10160 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001
I prefer the round nose Hornady 174 gr. and Woodleigh 215 gr. in my .303 British. I don't hunt with it at long range, only in the bushveld or in Western Oregon, and at those ranges, the round nose (especially the 215 gr.) is devastating on large and small game.
I could not get the required amount of bullets I wanted in the hornady 190 btsp so I have just bought 5 boxes of speer 180 gr round nose bullets for mine and my mates 30/06's. We figure that for pigs out to 150 yards they will be alright.
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
I have never bought a box of roundnose bullets in the 40 years I've been reloading. My favorite shape is the spitzer. RN doesn't give me any advantage. As an engineer I think the shape inherently tells me it is less efficient in flight.
My reloading experience is in rifle calibers of .30 and under, so that might explain my bias also.
Posts: 13817 | Location: Texas | Registered: 10 May 2002
I have shot them a little in my .416 Rigby and used flat points in my 45/70 on a lot of game. I know they do not stack up in the BC contest, but I feel they are efiicient killers, you should try a pack one day just to see how they perform on the game you shoot. You have 40 years of experience under your belt with pointed styles so you should know pretty quickly how they stack up in the on game performance criteria.
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
quote:Originally posted by Kensco: My favorite shape is the spitzer. RN doesn't give me any advantage. As an engineer I think the shape inherently tells me it is less efficient in flight.
With all due respect, and as point of illustration, this is the attitude (valid, or not) that has led to the demise of the RN.
I am of the camp (right or wrong) that has a strong hunch that BC is...well, BS. Much more important to me is SD.
As for the flight characteristics, well, getting the bullet on target is up to me, not the bullet. It's as simple as that. A shooter should know his bullet's trajectory at whatever velocity he chooses to launch it, and work with/around that. When the bullet gets there, that's when its work begins. Everything prior to that is my job.
These are my opinions, and we all know what those are worth.
RSY
Posts: 785 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 01 October 2001
I do not know if you have seen my thread in big game forum but I have just purchased 500 speer 180 gr RN's for my friends and my 30/06 rifles for this years pig hunting. Have you tried this particular round nose ?? how do you expect they will perform ??
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
quote:Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr: If anyone can tell me where I can get some of the old Speer 220 grn 8mm RNs Id love to get my hands on some of those.
Dear Westernhunter, you may alreafy know this, so forgive me if I am pointing out something obvious...
Woodleight: 220 gr RNSP and 250 gr RNSP Degol (Belgium): 220 gr RNSP Don't yet know about Hawk and Delsing.
Regards, Carcano
Posts: 2452 | Location: Old Europe | Registered: 23 June 2001
I've shot RN's in my 416, the Hornady 400 gr. soft point. They look cool, I'll give them that. My friend used one to take a black bear last spring. I wanted a bit more velocity than the 400 gr. can give, so I used a 350 gr. Speer Mag-Tip semi-spitzer for my hunting.
quote:Originally posted by 1894: Well with my 154gr Hornady RN I have a bullet that kills 20lb muntjac instantly without hardly expanding, knocks over deer at point blank range without coming apart, is the most stable bullet on twigs I've ever come across and bloody accurate.
1894,
What cartridge do you load it in, and what velocity?
John
Posts: 1246 | Location: Northern Virginia, USA | Registered: 02 June 2001
And what is a "muntjac"? That's a new word for this old country boy!
I am currently loading the Woodleigh .312 215 gr. RNSP in the 7.65x53 for use in an 1891 carbine ,the Hornady .264 160 gr. RNSP in the 6.5x55, and the Hornady .358 200 gr. RNSP in the .35 Remington. I am pleased with performance but don't kill nearly the number of animals that others do.
Posts: 2324 | Location: Staunton, VA | Registered: 05 September 2002
quote:Originally posted by PC: Hobie what game have you killed with those loads ??
Virginia whitetails with the 6.5 and .35, nothing with the 7.65x53. However, the 7.65 is practically the same as the .303 British and so if any .303 shooters have experience with this bullet they could enlighten you.
Posts: 2324 | Location: Staunton, VA | Registered: 05 September 2002
quote:Originally posted by reloader-1: Round nose bullets can be used in tubular magazines, right/wrong?
reloader-1
If they cannot then I have been screwing up, because I use them in mine..
Carcano91,
Thanks for pointing that out, actually Ive never used Woodleighs but Ive heard that they make a very good bullet. Arent their RNs made with an extra thick Jacket? I believe Ive found the 8mm bullet Ive been looking for though. http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000068MMMAX
Its not an RN but just as antiquated.
PC,
I think youve selected a good bullet for your hunt. To me, the bottom line with any RN is its easy expanding chariteristics. For instance, in circumstances where a spitzer may do more penetrating than expanding (thin skinned game, especially close up), or simply not have enough poop left to expand at all (too far away), a RN will still make a nice mushroom almost instantaneously thus creating a devestating wound channel. They are at their best with big, slow, heavy bullets. The flip side to this, as with any lead core bullet, is over expansion and ultimatly core seperation because of too much velocity. But at 06 velocities with 180s you should be fine. In fact Ill bet that they do them hogs in fine fashion.
quote:Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr: or simply not have enough poop left to expand at all (too far away), a RN will still make a nice mushroom almost instantaneously thus creating a devestating wound channel.
The thing is, the RN will have much less poop left than a spitzer at the same distance. The farther you go, the bigger the poop deficit...or shall we call it the dP/dD (Delta Poop with change of distance).
quote:Originally posted by RSY: I am of the camp (right or wrong) that has a strong hunch that BC is...well, BS. Much more important to me is SD.
Expensive chronographs disagree. When a bullet is measured at a higher velocity at a certain range when launched at the same velocity as another bullet, it shows that BC's are not BS. This isn't something that somebody just made up. It is very real.
quote:Originally posted by RSY: As for the flight characteristics, well, getting the bullet on target is up to me, not the bullet.
That's akin to saying a rifle's accuracy doesn't matter at all. If it's only capable of 3 MOA it's your fault if you can't shoot 1 MOA with it. Look at wind drift figures for low BC bullets vs. high BC bullets. A low BC bullet will simply be less accurate at longer ranges unless you're shooting in a vaccuum.
That said, for many that never shoot beyond 250 or so, they'd probably never notice a difference. But if you buy a "magnum" for it's extended range capabilities, don't fool yourself by thinking you aren't nutering it by loading a RN. As the range increases, a standard calibler with spitzers will outpace your magnum with RN's.
[ 01-19-2003, 13:35: Message edited by: Jon A ]
Posts: 920 | Location: Mukilteo, WA | Registered: 29 November 2001
I shoot a lot of RN bullets for reasons that have not been stressed:
A. Heavier RNs than spitzers will stabilize in slow twist barrels.
B. A RN eats less powder space in a cartridge that must work through a short magazine.
C. You can often seat a RN closer to the lands in long throated rifles.
D. Most importantly, nobody else wants them and I buy mine out of closeout boxes for less than half the price of new spitzers.
I ain't much of a hunter and what little hunting I do is done in deep woods. At the ranges that I shoot game, the advantages of a spitzer are mostly illusory.
And, yeah, I run RNs through a tube mag. Might hesitate in something that recoils more, but I don't worry a bit with my .25-35 Improved.
Posts: 1570 | Location: Base of the Blue Ridge | Registered: 04 November 2002
quote:Originally posted by RSY: As for the flight characteristics, well, getting the bullet on target is up to me, not the bullet.
That's akin to saying a rifle's accuracy doesn't matter at all. If it's only capable of 3 MOA it's your fault if you can't shoot 1 MOA with it. Look at wind drift figures for low BC bullets vs. high BC bullets. A low BC bullet will simply be less accurate at longer ranges unless you're shooting in a vaccuum.
Jon:
I apologize for over-simplifying. You make some valid points.
When I say it's up to me, that definitely includes obtaining/maintaining an accurate rifle, as well as knowing the characteristics of your chosen bullet at whatever velocity you've settled upon...we're talking trajectory, wind drift, etc. Those are all variables you can influence, or for which you can make compensations.
But, when the bullet hits home, it's out of our hands. That's why I value sectional density over ballistic coefficient (the "BS" statement was perhaps a little strong, admittedly).
So, I stand by original statement...now slightly expanded.
RSY
Posts: 785 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 01 October 2001
I use the 200 Grn. Roundnose in my 30-06 for hunting in heavy swamp areas for whitetails and also during bear season. It seems the round nose shuts them down faster.......
quote:Originally posted by RSY: That's why I value sectional density over ballistic coefficient
For a given shape, they go hand in hand. The higher the SD, the higher the BC. For a given weight and caliber, shape has nothing to do with SD. A 30 cal 200 grain RN has a high SD and low BC. A 30 cal 200 SBT has the same SD but a much higher BC.
Posts: 920 | Location: Mukilteo, WA | Registered: 29 November 2001
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