If left-hand is not your criteria, consider Winchester Stealth(a push-feed model) in .223, it comes in 1-in-9 twist, 26" heavy barrel, full length aluminum bedding block, kevlar reinforced stock. It's a very good looking sniper rifle. The downside of this rifle is weight, 10 3/4 lb. The rifle costs around 760$ (This is my favorite actually, but they don't have it in lefthand)

If push-feed is not your criteria, consider Ruger Target rifle in .223 1-in-10", It's stainless steel with heavy barrel tapered slightly at the end, laminated wood stock. About 750$

Remington makes 700 Varmint rifles in heavy barrel, with aluminum bedding block and kevlar reinforced stock, about as good as Winchester Stealth but Remington discontinued
left-hand model and their 1-in-12" twist is not what I am looking for. About 760$

If 1-in-12" is OK for you, give Tikka and Sako rifles serious consideration, But rule out Tikka if you hate detachable magazines.

My 0.02$

Winchesters are not $750 and if they were your not going to get $600 for one. Not from me or a dealer. A used gun is worth about 1/2 of retail at best. You can get a M-70 at walmart with a scope for $375! New!

And why does the recoil have to be under a .270? The .270 is the smallest cartridge that will be satisfactory for game.

The bottom line is that I have no use for the .223. As Elmer said "whats it good for?"

Then get a 7.62 X 39 it's a much better cartridge than the .223. It's world famous and it's cheap also.

SOmething else you might consider is saving up $250 or so and try putting an ad in the local paper for a 223 or other centerfire bolt action rifle. Actually how I would do it is just say something like "WANTED- used centerfire rifle in medium or smaller caliber, will pay cash". That way you might come across something else interesting and then you can decide if you would like to buy it. Now it sounds like your parents will actually buy this for you, so speaking from the hard teacher of personal experience tell your parent beforehand to not let you spend over a certain amount if this gun is not what you are exactly looking for. So when someone shows up with that 45-70 that you want you don't mortgage the farm buying it and then are SOL when someone else wants to sell you a bolt 223 cheap and you don't have the dollars anymore. Anyway just an idea, more people buy used guns than new ones.

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The bottom line is that I have no use for the .223. As Elmer said "whats it good for?"

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My .223 is great on feral cats! and crows, groundhogs, skunks, coyotes, etc...

I'm sure that they would be much more dead if I had shot them with a 22-250 or a .243, but the .223 doesn't hurt my ears or draw as much attention.

Low cost = more reloading/shooting practice per dollar spent.

Mild wind drift = practice for wind reading.

Low recoil = stay at range all day, sans bruise.

Low knock down energy = running practice if there is a big bear coming.

ING, if you plan to change caliber, how about getting a gun that is capable of caliber interchange? If NEF produce .223 in a proper twist barrel then go for it, but what is better than a THOMSON/CENTER CONTENDER RIFLE?
All you change is(are) the barrel(s).

I have herd it menchoned that the brake actions are not good for reloading, but how bad. Can anyone give me a comparison of case life?

I wouldn't monkey with switch barrels at this stage in the game, by the time you get a second barrel you are most of the way towards another gun. It's better to buy an additional gun than it is to buy an additional barrel.

Raccoons, skunks, coyotes, and jackrabbits, to name a few.

No one gun will do all things well. For "cheap and fun", the .223 is about impossible to beat.

Cost of reloads: Lake City milsurp brass, $.03 each. Since I neck size, they wear out very slowly, so under $.001 per shot. They also hold more powder than my commercial brass. Bulk Remington BTSP FMJ bullets, $38/1000 at the gun show. Primers, .0189 each. One pound of AA2015 powder, $14.50, good for 350 loads, at $.041 each. Ooops. That's $.098 each, not $.085.

ING : forget T/C contenders, buy a bolt action instead, BTW what is your budget?
If you are low on budget, so low as you don't even want a factory new rifle, get a used one or buy a military mauser in 6.5 or 7mm, a clean one is often capable of good accuracy.

My M96 Swedish Mauser is the first gun I reload for (6.5X55), of course the gun is in perfect condition. I asked for good loads on the internet and prepared for some loads.
The mauser bolt is bent by my gunsmith and drilled for a 24X scope. My first scoped centerfire rifle, my first reloading.

The combination shot sub-half MOA

I got my reloading kit from Natchez, they have some very good price. Recall I spend under 250$US for a RCBS rockchucker kit. Lee have some portable press under 50$US. Or you can choose the Lee anniversary dies, they do not require reloading press, the brass is driven into the dies with a mallet.

As to the rifle : Howa(Legacy sports), Charter Arms, and Savage Arms produce rifles at 300$~500$US range. In the military rifle department, I only spent 120$CDN for a Swedish Mauser in Exc. condition, but scope mounting, bolt work and an after market trigger cost total of 170$CDN extra. The military rifle route probably will cost you 260$US, more if you go with an Argentina or Brazilian Mauser. The low cost benefit of .223Rem is not available with military rifles.

A scope is what you need as well, don't settle for low powers because of their low cost(I bought a 4X, made a mistake), it just can't tell you what's going on, though they are good as hunting scopes.
I bought a scope from Natchez again, a Tasco 6-24X42, I cost me around 110$US, it is now my most often used scope. A Tasco is not the best, but it allows me to shoot some groups that is amazing enough.

Hope this helps.

The .223 is the easiest for me to get accuracy.

The 357 mag is fun to shoot.

Incidently: this particular rifle, once the fore and aft guard screws have been tightened well, is exceptionally accurate with the original iron sights.

There is another reason why this rifle is fun: it can be battered around and even moderate careless abuse seems to make no difference. But, it sure is fun to shoot.

Paladin

quote:

Originally posted by SteveM70:
I'm with Don. If I were to be purchasing my first and only centerfire rifle it would not be a 223 or any 22 caliber for that matter. My personal preference to fit the criteria would be a 7-08 in a Savage rifle or even a 308. The versitility alone would be worth the extra cost to reload.
Second the vote on the 7m08 or 308. Both are outstanding calibers with light recoil. Fun to shoot. Easy to load. Good bullet choices. Good for almost all of NA game.

JMHO, Steve

quote:

Originally posted by SteveM70:
Just read when the original post was made. Wow, I hope he has made his desision by now Still makes for interesting conversasion I suppose

quote:

Originally posted by I Need Guns:
I'm considering geting a rifle in the next few months, and want some imput as to what. I would like it to have keep recoil at or less than a 270. I like to tinker with things so a gun that things can be tinkered easaly would be good.
I do not reload, and I would like to start for this gun so it would be good if supplyes for brass, bullets, dies exe. were vary avalible.
(I have posted a similer thread on a diffent forum but I'd like your imput too)
Any sugstions on cal, or gun would be grate
,thanks