I'm considering geting a rifle in the next few months, and want some imput as to what. I would like it to have keep recoil at or less than a 270. I like to tinker with things so a gun that things can be tinkered easaly would be good.
I do not reload, and I would like to start for this gun so it would be good if supplyes for brass, bullets, dies exe. were vary avalible.
(I have posted a similer thread on a diffent forum but I'd like your imput too)
Any sugstions on cal, or gun would be grate
,thanks

It sounds to me like you are describing a .223 bolt action rifle. If you want to start inexpensively, a Savage bolt action might be the best accuracy for the dollar.

It's a great hobby, but addictive!

Don

Check out savage rifles! 308 is also a great round to work with.

Ditto to Don G! As far as pure shooting pleasure goes, it is hard to beat a .223. There is plenty of cheap brass around, and the mil brass I have measured actually has more capacity than commercial. Bullets are cheap, and the loads only sip powder, unlike some that gulp it. Buying bullets in bulk, and using really cheap mil brass, I figure my cost at about $.085 per round. I can mess around at the range for a couple of hours and have no more than $10 in it.

If you want to go up a notch, maybe a .243, which would be more expensive to operate, but would also be adequate for deer. But for tinkering, plinking, target shooting, jack rabbits, coyotes, skunks, and raccoons, the .223 is your ticket.

If you like to tinker, you will inevitably tinker for accuracy. Bolt action is the right answer.

On the other forum people sugested 243 in a NEF single shot, which go for around $250. I do like the 243's trajectory, vary flat to around 300yards.
This rifel will only be for shooting paper, and maybe a few varment. There are vary few things that are ligal to hunt by rifle hear in Mass.

ING,

The 243 is a good round, but it will cost you more than twice as much to shoot than a 223 Rem.

It's hard to beat those military surplus cartridges if you don't reload.

I have a NEF 12 gauge rifled shotgun. It is a decent gun, but I think the bolt action Savage is hard to beat if you look at $ vs performance.

The nice thing about rifles is that if you buy them right they don't lose value. I think the Savage will hold it's value, but the NEFs generally do not.

Don

Needy,
If you want really available brass at reasonable cost pick either 30/30 or a military cartridge. The 243 can be made from 308 brass but the loads will have to be worked up a bit more carefully due to the capacity difference between the cases. I am a fan of the bolt action for rimless cases - it is easier to size for them than it is for break-open actions. For the 30/30 you can use either but the bolts are still less finickey. If you are just shooting paper and varmints I would recommend the .223 for cost and accuracy reasons to the 200 or 300 yard ranges - something a new reloader may work up to through tinkering. If you wanted to shoot out to 600 yards then I would consider the .243 or .308.
If you decide to get a .223 get one with a fast twist - 1:10 is best for the heavier bullets (which is what you'll want for longer range shooting and the shorter bullets will be OK with that twist even though it is a bit faster than would be required.
Good luck with your shopping!

PaulS

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stay safe and live long!

How about a 6.5x55. Not much recoil, accurate and plenty of components available. Great for coyote, deer and with proper bullets black bear, as well. I would ignore surplus arms and look for a modern design.

My vote also is in the .223 stack. But, I'm of the opinion that a 1 in 9" or even a 1 in 8" twist is going to do a better job at stabilizing the 68 through 80-grain bullets.

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Abe

If everyone thought like me, I'd be a damn fool to think any differently!

Is there more of a danger loading hot loads in a brake action vs. bolt?

The break action is not as strong as the bolt action, but for a 223 this is probably moot. The bolt action has a safer failure mode than the break action, but again this probably makes no difference.

I'd go to WalMart and see what they had in a 223. It is hard to beat their prices, if they carry what you want. The ones around here will order what you want, at reasonable prices.

Don

One round that I haven't heard menchoned is the 22/250. Any reson, or is it just becouse it is far more expesive for brass.

The 223 if not big game hunting.Dons right accurracy and cost of reloading or even new shells the .223 is tough to beat.Give me a Savage FP with a 24in tube and good glass tough to beat for the money.

The 22/250 is ballistically superior to the 223, and certainly one of the most rewarding calibers to reload. I don't know that I've ever seen one that didn't shoot well, and some that were just amazing shooters.

BUT, you hit the nail on the head with the expense factor. The .223 brass, especially, is available everywhere dirt cheap, they use less powder, and are easier on the ears and shoulder than the 22-250. The .223 is also, in general, superbly accurate.

For action style, if you do intend to reload, the bolt is the way to go. I haven't seen any mention here of the Howa 1500 rifles - you might want to check them out. They're in the Savage's price range, and don't have that ugly barrel nut sticking out there for the world to see.

R-WEST

i would go with a 25-06 but thats just what i want so my judgment may be clouded a little.

What cartrige would you think would be best if cost of ammo didn't matter? (it dose matter, just want to see what what ya'll think)

I've only been at reloading for a year but the .223 is the one I'm having the most fun with.I'm down to 3/4" at 100 with my Ar-15 and I think I can get it to 1/2".I have about a thousand rounds of surplus for it but when I do what I have to and start fooling and fussing,I pull out the .223 dies.
.308 is a close 2nd and the .416 Rigby would be 3rd.
I'd say buy the most accurate rifle you can in a caliber you like or will use most and do that one.When you talk of cost in reloading,yes the surplus calibers will be cheaper but even the Weatherby calibers will be cheap compared to factory loading.
Mad

If the buyer does not have a rifle then we must ask what he is going to use it for?

Massachusets does not have rifle hunting for deer as far as I know not that it's hard to drive north for that. Varmints can be shot with centerfires I believe.

The .223 is not very useful nor does it do anything best.

[This message has been edited by Don Martin29 (edited 01-21-2002).]

Don,

I beg to differ on your last comment about the .223. It is the "staple" round for prairie dog shooting. If I could only have one gun to shoot PD's with, it'd be a .223. Now, granted, that's a fairly specialized use, but...

Combine recoil, cost per round and ease of loading, it can't be beat for PD's.

Cheers!

I was planing on using the gun mostly using it for paper, and a few varmnts, and if I could take a deer with it that would be a plus but not rilly the reason I want to get this rifle would be for. I am looking for the gun to be good for mostly accurassy. I don't mined if the components cost more that the 223, but I would like to keep the price of the firearm down as much as posible.

We have hot dogs and chilli dogs here but no prairie dogs. I have shot a lot of woodchucks and other varmints with the .222 Remington. When my buddys had .22 hornets and 25-20's it was king. But go chuck hunting with a little .223 and find a long shot and your friend say's "here shoot my .220 Swift" that get's old fast.

The .223 is not of much use in the North East. Too weak for deer (and we have bear here). Too weak for long range shooting compared to the standards.

Our corespondent here should look for a used rifle in .270. He mentioned it so let him try one. Anyway the .270 Winchester is the smallest cartridge that will prove entirely satisfactory for hunting everything in the lower 48 states.

I don't have a .222 Rem any longer. No use for it.

Just got thinking (bad news) would I be dumb to try to take a blacky with a 243win with a 105gr. A-Max bullet? I just checked and it is legal to hunt bear in mass with anyhting bigger than 22.

A 270 would be be good if I was to uses it for a foe hunting.

My feeling is our friend is looking to plink so steering him away from the .223 would be unwise IMO.
Mad

I do not if this is for you but the most fun gun I reload for is my marlin 1895ss in 45/70, recoil is not at all bad with the 300 grain sierra's. 45/70's are heaps of fun.

Regards PC

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I am presently loading for .223 and don't even have the rifle yet. I just did a per shell break down today and without the cost of the brass they each cost 14.2 Cents each, wish I knew where Denton was buying his supplies, If I factor in brass life it goes up about a penny a round, so it is very cheap.

I have a .218 Bee and have had a .22/250 and I won't be able to give you any info relative to shooting this until I get my own. I have shot Howard H's Magnum Research 223 and it is a dream. I would agree with most and go with this one.

Chic

Bears can eat you right - I think a 585 Nyati or a 600 Nitro maybe even a 700 Nitro would be good. Just kidding.

Seriously I wouldn't plan to shoot any animal over 150lbs with a 243 unless you were a really good shot, and had time to take the shot.

If only paper and varmits then 223 would be good, or if for longer stuff 300yds plus then a 243 Win or a 6mm Rem would be better.

IMHO a 270 WIN would be the best all round cartridge, if you plan to reload, shoot paper and hunt animals over 150lb. Load it with light bullets for target and varmits and heavier for animals.

I would suggest a .25 caliber. 25.06 is a nice shooting round, but the .257 Roberts is maybe better for some as it has good speed, lots of bullets selection, brass is available, recoil is less that a .270, and it will kill anything from mule deer on down. the 25.06 will do just about anything a .270 will with a smidge less recoil. Felt recoil probably would be about the same. The .257 Roverts could be an Ackley Improved version, and still have less recoil than the 25.06 or the .270. Hard to beat a .257 Roberts AI. I like the Remington rifles. I am not sure about the new ones, though. I have some that are about 7 years old, and they are excellant shooters. The trigger on one of mine is set at 2 pounds, and the barrel is free-floated and it shoots 3/8" groups at 100 meters. The pachmeyer de-cellerator pad helps reduce the felt recoil in my .300 weatherby, so could also help on a .25.06 If I was limited to a couple of rifles, a 25.06 would be one of them.

308 in a savage rifle. the 308 is fun to shoot and there is lots of ammo choices and everyone would agree it is very accurate. As far as a target,plinker or deer hunting rifle i think it is used by more people to fill all three of those jobs then any other round out there!

PC, the 45/70 is a completly diffrent rout, but it looks like it would be a fun gun. I think I'll probly get 45/70 affter I get this gun.

So I have it down to 5 cartirdges:223, 243, 25/06, 270, and 308. Now as to which one...

[This message has been edited by I Need Guns (edited 01-21-2002).]

.223 cheap and easy to load for and accurate in most cases. I have 3 and love them all.

"I do not reload, and I would like to start for this gun so it would be good if supplyes for brass, bullets, dies exe. were vary avalible."

The .223 is one of the cheapest and easiest to reload. Also it has a very wide avaliability of reloading products.

You can go down to Walmart and buy a(Winchester) box of 40 cartridges for $12.00. Try that with some of the others. If you have a problem with flinching, this one would help to overcome it.

I have a Savage 12FV.

Some of the other cartridge choices will work well also.

Andrew V. McGee

Last Spring I was in the same boat. I wanted to learn how to reload, and I also wanted a rifle that would be easy and inexpensive to shoot.

I found a Remington 700 ADL with a synthetic stock in .223Rem for $385, and a Simmons Whitetail Expedition 4x12AO with Redfield rings and bases for $158. The first 5-shot group with this rifle measured .390" with factory ammo. Last week at a close-out sale I bought a RCBS Master Reload Kit, Redding Deluxe Die Set, and Lee Perfect Powder Measure for under $250. I have to set up a reloading bench and buy a few more items, but I can't think of a cheaper/more rewarding round to shoot.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by I Need Guns:
i think the 25-06 would be the best way to go it does deer like you would not beleave but on the other hand its a little to much for varmits but the recoil is lest than the 270 and the brass is there.and if you realy want to play with something try the 22 hornet
my favorit for messing around with because it is cheap to reload. just my opinion.oh i have a 308 also it is fun also and a 30-30
and a 25-20 and a 218 bee and a 41 mag and a
22 lr there all fun to shoot but my favorite is the 25-06 for hunting.

lol, I don't remember saying that. I think you can say the same about the 25/06 as the 243 win.

Need Guns,

Put me down as a vote for the Savage in 223. If you like to shoot you will be shooting paper a lot, and only one animal. After you have gotten some experience and a better paying job then talk about a different caliber. My suggestion is get a rifle, spend every or every other weekend at the range, and learn all you can about making small groups. I know it sounds easy listening to these people here at this site, but remember you are chatting with the cream of the crop here

Start shooting next spring, really go at it seriously, and you'll probably have some shooting pals next fall who would be happy to lend you a rifle in a bigger caliber if you need one for hunting.

Remember, to get really good you need to do several things, but one of them is shoot a lot! And a 223 will allow you to do that better than anything except 22LR.

.223 Rem!

The cost to reload a round is 40%~50% less compared to typical .308Win class rounds.

I think you gys have convinsed my to go with a 223! I defitly would like a 308, 243, 7mm08, 25/06 or a 22/250, but i don't need it now.

Now which rifle?

I think I need to fided out how to type! I think I tried to say I think you guys have convinsed me to go with a 223

700 VSSF

I just cannot believe the suggestions for the .223!

As Elmer Keith would say "What is it good for?"

The best "fun gun" is a .22LR. The best "real rifle" is a .308 Win/.270/06. The most practical gun is a 12 ga shotgun. That's it!