I am having difficulty developing a load for my NEF 30-06 that performs as well as the cheap Remington 150 gr ammo. I've used Varget, H335, and H4895 and I've used Nosler Ballistic Tips, Sierra Game King, Speer Hot-Core in 150 grain and cannot get groups as good as I get with the Remington factory 150 grain ammo. (Note: the Noslers produce the best groups but no better than factory ammo.) This is the only rifle I haven't been able to develop a good load for. Any suggestions? Does anyone know what powder Remington uses? Maybe I should switch to the powder they use and their Core-Lockt bullets.

Perhaps your barrel is trying to tell you it dislikes boat tail bullets. Of the bullets you list only the hot core is of flat base construction. Try a Hornady or Sierra flat base before pulling any more hair from your head, or better yet, try Remington's excellent 165 grain core-lokt. They're cheap when purchased in bulk.

H4895 is a good choice and so are the 4350s. Since the factory Remington shoots so well, replicate its C.O.A.L.

The 30-06 can be loaded well with many different powders. I think that the best for 150 gr. bullets in the 30-06 is probably IMR 4064, at or near the top load of 52 or 53 grains. The Nosler manual says that RL 19 was the most accurate powder they tested. So I suggest you try one of those powders.

Also, on rare occasions switching primers will make a difference. So, if you are not already doing so, I suggest using the Remington 9 1/2 (NOT magnum) primer.

As stated above, try a flat base bullet -- Sierra bullets are often the most accurate.

With a lot of bullets tried, and some powders known to produce good groups at some point in most rifles, the first question I'd be asking the loads is are you being fussy because of seating depth?

I have found that if a barrel is real picky or shows a dislike for boat tailed bullets the barrels crown should be cleaned up.

Funny...when someone asks if they need to "match prep" virgin brass and I say "no" I get roasted really good. My point is this....the factory sure doesn't do it and sometimes the factory ammo shoots really good. It's just a matter of luck...your gun likes whatever the powder/bullet combo are doing for it. If you knew what the recipe was you could dupe it and do as well or slightly better.
A while back a magazine writer was doing an article on reduced loads in a factory 270 win rifle. He did a bunch of reloads including some full power loads for accuracy comparisons. The bottom line was no load shot under an inch consistantly EXCEPT factory rem reduced loads with 115 grain bullets. They shot a consistant .55 inches.
Now back to your problem....keep trying different bullets and probably try seating them to the same jump to the lands that the factory ammo uses. There's a combo out there that will do better...just gotta find it.

Try 57gr of IMR4350 and 165gr Rem Core Lokt bullets. Primer of your choice. How tight is it shooting factory stuff?

Try RL-19 under that 150gr NBT, and work your way up to the (Nosler) book max charge of 61.5gr.
I don't seem to have cutting the "green box" factory groups in half with that combo

quote:

Originally posted by Red C.:
I am having difficulty developing a load for my NEF 30-06 that performs as well as the cheap Remington 150 gr ammo. I've used Varget, H335, and H4895 and I've used Nosler Ballistic Tips, Sierra Game King, Speer Hot-Core in 150 grain and cannot get groups as good as I get with the Remington factory 150 grain ammo. (Note: the Noslers produce the best groups but no better than factory ammo.) This is the only rifle I haven't been able to develop a good load for. Any suggestions? Does anyone know what powder Remington uses? Maybe I should switch to the powder they use and their Core-Lockt bullets.

Ok, try this... firstoff try a propellant that the 30-06 tends to be "happier" with, in this I'd say IMR4064, IMR4350 or RL19 in that order.

Want a specific suggestion? 55grains of IMR4350
behind a 150gr Nosler Accubond. (work up to 59gr max)

Doesn't like boattails? Don't be silly.

quote:

Originally posted by rickt300:
I have found that if a barrel is real picky or shows a dislike for boat tailed bullets the barrels crown should be cleaned up.

AMEN!!!

CLEAN the muzzle and look at the "fouling star"
If the fouling is unever you've found your culprit.

But if not the crown it's possible, even likely that a particular 30-06 doesn't like 150's and will shoot 165's better (or Vice-Versa). I've seen that more than once.

Personally I'd suggest a 165gr Accubond and 48gr of IMR4064 (work up to 50gr max)


If a 165gr AB and some load of IMR4064 doesn't shoot under an inch in ANY 30-06 rifle I'd melt the barrel with a torch before trying anything else.


AD

Disassemble a factory load that is shooting well.. see what the powder looks like it might be, and what the charge weight is...

then chronograph a factory load, and with all that info, you should be able to develop a handload that shoots as well as the factory load, with whatever bullet you desire....

I do this for a few old guys every season... disassemble the cheap factory ammo, one at a time.. take the Corelokt bullet off and replace it with a Nosler Ballistic Tip or a Barnes TSX or a Nosler Partition in the same weight range..

That is the cheapest way to get premium bullets and ammo....if you don't full blown handload..

Red,

The advice above is all certainly worth entertaining but I tend to seafire2's analysis.

I have a .270 Winchester Ruger #1 that was exactly the same - it loved Federal factory ammo. I couldn't get my reloads to perfom anywhere near to what the factory fodder was giving me accuracy wise.

Took a factory round apart, picked a bullet of the same weight and shape (this one happend to be flat-based 130 grainer) and tried the Federal brass with Federal primers and a similar looking powder (H-4831) to the same OAL.

BINGO!

quote:

stillbeeman

The Remington factory ammo shoots groups just slightly over an inch (of course there is an occasional flier).

Seafire2
I like the idea of taking a factory load apart and finding what components they appear to be using. I'm going to try that and I'm going to try a flat base bullet for sure.

Thanks to all.

Red,

You may want to try loading some larger bullets to see if that shrinks your groups.

I have an '06 that shoots 180 grain bullets much much easier than 150 grainers. Rather than fight it, it was just much easier to go with the larger bullets and not have to tinker for consistency all the time.

I have a very nice custom 7mmMag that the previous owner sold because it simply refused to shoot 175's into less than 3"@100yds (and that was the BEST result some bullets wouldn't hit the paper), but will put 120's & 140's through the same hole until you get bored, tired or run out of ammo.

what does the "star" at the muzzle look like?

AD

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
Perhaps your barrel is trying to tell you it dislikes boat tail bullets. Of the bullets you list only the hot core is of flat base construction. Try a Hornady or Sierra flat base before pulling any more hair from your head, or better yet, try Remington's excellent 165 grain core-lokt. They're cheap when purchased in bulk.

H4895 is a good choice and so are the 4350s. Since the factory Remington shoots so well, replicate its C.O.A.L.

I'd try the 165 grain Core-Lokt option too, with a good dose of 4350 powder, and those bulk 165 grainers are a real deal.
In my experience, I've had .30-06s that would not shoot 150 grain class bullets worth beans, but began to settle down with 165 grainers and got really happy with 180 grain bullets. I have a Browning Safari that is a true garbage gut, shooting whatever I feed it, but my Mannlicher-Schoenauers only work well with 180 to 220 grain bullets. Almost every gun has it's own favorite food.
LLS

shoot the remingont load over the chrono, order you some corelock bullets, and match the vels...

and OAL

quote:

The Remington factory ammo shoots groups just slightly over an inch (of course there is an occasional flier).

quote:

I have found that if a barrel is real picky or shows a dislike for boat tailed bullets the barrels crown should be cleaned up.

Is there a link there, maybe?

What do you guys mean by "cleaning the crown" is this something more than a regular barrel cleaning? The crown looks Ok to me. Thanks for all the help.

probably talking about re-crowning the barrel

quote:

Originally posted by Red C.:
What do you guys mean by "cleaning the crown" is this something more than a regular barrel cleaning? The crown looks Ok to me. Thanks for all the help.

Clean the crown then shoot a few rounds, then look at the crown, you'll see a starburst shaped splash of fouling surrounding the bore, it should be even and concentric to the bore, a poor crown will result in an uneven pattern such as in the left pic below, the other pic is after touching the crown up with a ball bearing and 220gr, then 440gr lapping compound.

wrongtarget, how much did that crown dressing influence groups? Just from looking at the picture, one cannot actually see the defect. It looks as though the crown had not been de-burred after machining, otherwise it seemed true.

T'weren't mine, just a graphic that shows the pattern to look for and a possible cause of poor accuracy. That particular 17hmr rifle was shooting good before and after the crown was touched up, so it doesn't always tell the whole story, just an easy way to fix a possible problem.

I've done a couple myself, one made a remarkable difference, in fact the reason I got that 17hmr rifle cheap was cuz the previous owner couldn't get better than 3moa with it, I spent a few minutes with a small carriage bolt and valve grinding compound and cut the group size to moa with no other changes.

Could you give a little more detail into how to touch up the crown? Thanks!

If handloaded 30-06 is less accurate than factory, the ammo is probably not concentric.

If the brass has been bent with an expander ball pulling, then it has to get fire formed to straighten it out.

Then size the brass without the expander ball. Full length resize, but only push the shoulder back .001" after spring back. Some rifles that shoot new brass better than partially resized brass will respond positively to just .001" of shoulder change.

If the bullet will not get introduced to the case mouth without expanding, then do the expanding in a separate step, so the ball pushes, not pulls. Just expand the mouth, not the whole neck.

Seat the bullets as long as you can, without feeding or fitting in the magazine problems. If the round is hard to chamber, and pulling a loaded round leaves the bullet in the throat and powder all over the action, that is too long for hunting, ok for target. But getting the bullet touching the lands is good for concentricity.

quote:

Originally posted by Red C.:
Could you give a little more detail into how to touch up the crown? Thanks!

Here's a similar technique, although more agressive to a complete recrown, the carriage bolt finish is close to the ball bearing technique, only done manually.

http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/muzzle/mz.html