Was shooting my 300 Win Mag today, and had a complete case head separation. How do I get what's left of the case out of the chamber?
Thanks
Greg

Try a brass brush for a .45 cal pistol. Just push it in on a cleaning rod and it may grip on it's way out.

There are stuck case removers but you may have the brush right there.

If the brass bush doesn't do it find a tap that just fits into the case and doesn't touch the chamber and throat turn the tap into the brass so it holds then drop a rod down the barrel to knock the case out. Or find a struck case remover.

Depending on how polished your chamber is, and whether the brass is stuck to it, sometimes you can get the case to drop out simply by rapping the butt of the rifle on a hard floor with the rifle pointing straight up in the air -- I've succeeded in getting the front part of a separated case out of a .270 this way. Otherwise, use the method of going into the barrel from the front with a cleaning rod and brass brush.

I bought an Arisaka that turned out to have half a case stuck in the chamber.

I took it to a gunsmith, who tried the one way brush trick.

Next he poured Cerosafe in the case. He said he wrecked his favorite cleaning rod getting the case out.

I have to give him credit, he did not scratch the chamber.

Thanks for the suggestions. Nothing has worked so far. I had trouble getting the bolt open on this round and I pulled the back of the round off getting it open. The case is stuck! Pulled the bullets from the rest of the rounds in the box. Two other cases show signs of separating, one I got away with firing.
Away to the gunsmith it goes.

Gregory, either the oversize brush, a broken case extractor or a tap should do the trick. After that, stop FL sizing your cases. Partial sizing without pushing back the case shoulder will prevent case separation in the future.

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Andr�

Andre,
This happened on a neck sized case.
Greg

I'll need some help on this one but it really works...There is a tool that machinics use when pulling hubs or something during a brake job or wheel work, that you can slip in a chamber and expand it and pull any case and I have forgotten what it is..HELP me some of you machanics out there......

Its been years but this gadget is a wonder for stuck cases...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I get that once in awhile with a 6X45mm, crank in a 1/4-20 tap and pull the case out. An 8mm metric tap might do the deed, careful not to go too far and scratch the chamber or throat.

Tom

I had this happen recently with a .35 Whelen. The loads weren't hot but the brass was old.

When I got home, I fooled around with other methods until I spotted my set of e-z-outs. These are used to extract broken bolts. A hole is drilled in the broken bolt and the e-z-out is threaded into the hole counter-clockwise. Once a good bite is achieved, force can be exerted in a count-clockwise direction and the broken bolt can be turned out(in theory anyway).

I took the largest e-z-out I had and, after checking to make sure it wouldn't contact the chamber wall, I hand turned it into the case. It really bit into the brass. When I had it good and tight, I dropped a 1/4" length of coated brazing rod down the barrel and the brass and e-z-out just fell out.

You might try warming the chamber with your hand, and squirting starting fluid into the chamber. The idea is to expand the chamber with the warmth of your hand, and contract the case with the either. A rap on the but should then loosen the case.
A screw extractor might work, but the chances of damage are severe.

I had this problem with a 270 at the range using old cases. A fellow loaned me a stuck case remover that was in 8mm size(all he had). It worked like a charm. You just put it in the chamber and close the bolt then an expander on the end grips the inside of the neck and out it comes. He said they came from Numrich Arms a long time ago. I don't have a Numrich catalogue but if someone can look them up I would surely buy a set.

Ditto on the EZ out. Use the one made for tubing. I used to pay good money to get broken 30/30 cases removed from my T/C contender until I read about the EZ out method in Gunsmith Kinks. It works so slick it'll scare you. Just give it a little tap to let it bite into the brass and use an eight point socket to fit on the square head of the EZ out

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Grey Eagle

But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles;they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk and not faint.

Isaiah 40:31

This is exactly why I carry "Stuck Case Removers" with me when I go hunting. Just take the correct caliber.

Throw the bbled action in the freezer, after ten minutes pull it out and use a bore snake a cal or two larger than your rifle. Might not have to put it in the freezer.

A case head separation is a cause for alarm. It can result in very serious injury.

I have been reloading since 1953. I have had a couple of partial head separations but never a stuck case. What I do to any suspect cases is to "feel" the inside of the case with a wire with a tiny bent hook on the end of it. Just cut a coat hangar wire to 6" and bent the end to a little hook and then file it to a edge. Reach inside each case in at least two places as you rotate the case. If you feel a slight depression then that case may be OK but a real grabbing of the hook will mean that it's time to throw the case out. Hacksaw the case in half to check how bad they are to get a benchmark. You can't see the separtation starting from the outside. Yes you can see a ring there but you can't tell how good or bad it is until you reach inside.

Cases from rifles with rear locking lugs should be checked 100% of the time. I know someone will say that they throw out the cases after one reload or whatever but not me. I am pecunious and I shoot them quite a few times.

Another bad design is the belted magnums. Many of these rifles have headspace. While the advice above is correct on how to set a reloading die a case can be stretched with one shot!

Another thing to watch for is shallow or very tight primer pockets. If I primer will not seat at least flush then the bolt will hold the case tight forward and it will stretch. You can get a carbide primer pocket bottoming tool called the Whitetail from Sinclair. I have this problem right now with some Winchester cases in .300 H&H and I fixed the pockets.

I have had a few rifles with excessive headspace. I sold them. One was a nice 6.5mm Mannlicher S. No matter how much I necked the cases up to create a false shoulder they still got thin.

The best cartridges are like the 30/06. I never have had a problem with that cartridge and the cases last forever. But if it were in a 95 Winchester then I bet I would have to check the bases inside for separtations.

In summary: Don't let this happen to you even once! Don't carry a stuck case remover. That's after the fact. Prevent head separations!

Thought fer sure I'd see this trick somewhere in this string...... guess not. So here goes. Use another empty case. An intact one at that. And, if posible, anneal the neck before proceeding.

Procedure is simple - chamber it as far forward as possible with the bolt knob. Give it a fair push. Draw bolt back & extract the 'mated' cases. Theory is the intact case's neck swages itself into the ruptured case's neck from the inside. SLICK. Never had this method fail me - annealed or not.

Another trick is an aerosol solvent, such as auto brake cleaner. Contraction rates & a lite tap work most of the time with this one. The drill goes like this: With muzzle pointed down, (over a container) spray into chamber. Drain off excess solvent, invert weapon (muzzle up) & tap at bbl/receiver junction. This method is a bit more practical for pumps, autos & levers as no tool needs to be inserted thru ejection ports. Hope dis helps.

best,
joey

Gregory, you got me there. A neck sized case could/should separate at the neck. In the condition you describe, a head separation would make me suspicious about your rifle's headspace. Considering you detected incipient separation signs in other cases, a lone bad case is ruled out. If I were you, I'd put that rifle on wait and have its headspace checked by a competent gunsmith.

PS. : as an aftertought : what rifle are you talking about ? Could it be you're shooting a rear locking rifle, like a Steyr-Mannlicher, a Sauer 90 or the likes ?
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Andr�

[This message has been edited by Andr� Mertens (edited 03-26-2002).]

Andre,
It's a Ruger 77. I've loaded the cases several times before, so maybe they reached end of life.
Greg

Maybe Greg but, considering the potential danger, I'd advise :
1. have the rifle's headspace checked (I do no longer think it is the problem but... let's be sure and get that thought out of the way) ;
2. don't change anything in your handloading procedure and start again with ONCE FIRED cases (new cases may have a weakness to start with) ;
3. after each firing, check the inside of each case for incipient separation with a bent and sharp tipped metal rod. ANYTIME you feel a slight groove inside -a little above the solid base, discard the case, no matter how many times it has been fired.

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Andr�

Nothing has worked! The case is still stuck, gonna send it to Ruger to fix.
Greg

Thanks, guys for this post!!

I'm new to reloading and this morning was shooting some .300 Win Mags I loaded last night. Nowhere near max load - I have been trying different powders and primers and using light loads.

Got a case separation - the head just came off leaving the case in the chamber.

Your brush-from-the-muzzle worked! It's perfectly obvious to try that once I knew about it but wouldn't have thought of it - was about to go the my 'smith and give him another chuckle.

Anyway, thank you!

Dave has the broken case extractor tools.
http://www.ch4d.com/
Belted Magnum Collet resizing die
http://www.larrywillis.com/

quote:

Originally posted by Don Martin29:
A case head separation is a cause for alarm. It can result in very serious injury.

Just cut a coat hangar wire to 6" and bent the end to a little hook and then file it to a edge. Reach inside each case in at least two places as you rotate the case. If you feel a slight depression then that case may be OK but a real grabbing of the hook will mean that it's time to throw the case out. You can't see the separtation starting from the outside. Yes you can see a ring there but you can't tell how good or bad it is until you reach inside.

Another bad design is the belted magnums. Many of these rifles have headspace.

I have had a few rifles with excessive headspace. I sold them.

Thanks for the useful info, and reminder. It's been a long time since I bothered to check for the starting of case head seperation. In all the years I've been shooting and handloading, I've never had a case head seperation. I have probably become too casual about it. So, I took your advice and made the little tool just now, out of a paper clip, and used a dremel to flatten the tip. Then I checked some fired cases, several different calibers, but found no evidence of a problem. The tool is now sitting beside my press, so I'll use it.

I hope I can take exception to something you wrote, without being offensive or confrontational. I disagree with your statment that the belted magnums are a bad design. The problem you mentioned - incorrect headspace - isn't the fault of the design. A headspece problem with a belted cartridge is due to some deviation from design, either the chamber or the belt on the brass. I have not had any problems with belted magnums, but I'm sure what you say is true to some degree, but again I say it's not the design, but a deviation from specs somewhere. After all, the 458WM depends on the belt, and it's success is well proven.

Another thing that I've started doing lately, which was mentioned in this thread, is to set the FL die carefully so it doesn't push the shoulder back too far, and create headspace in the handload. For a time I was sloppy about that too, mostly because for some cartridges I have more than one rifle.

Recently I unintentionally got two FL RCBS sizing dies in 9.3x62, so I got the bright idea to set one for one rifle, and the other for my other rifle. That seems to work well. Now I'm thinking of buying FL dies for the other rifles of which I have more than one in the same chambering, such as 308, 280, and etc.

KB

"actually".. belted cases are known for this, due to resizing before the belt, and expansion at the same point .. same thing as bending a wire back and forth to break it ... don't get all twisted up, you can prove it yourself with a set of dial calipers.. digitals work good...

take a fire HH case ... measure it about .100 in front of the belt, towards the mouth ...

scratch the case there

full length resize it

measure again...

Greg K ; Do you know how many reloads were on that particular case ?. what make is the brass ?.

Do you load Hot or near maximum charge ?.

Do you anneal cases If so when do you normally anneal ,after how many reloads ?.

I think this illustrates perhaps a useful posting section in AR reloading area .

Case data ; Caliber # of loads type of loads when or if re loader anneals , this type of information

would be of particular value too all of us . What do you think Jeffeosso ?.

Hey Doc, look at the post date of this thread....2002

I doubt that Greg is watching anymore.

But I do have a question of you.……
How does annealing have anything to do with case head separation?

Unlike rimless cases that "headspace" on the shoulder, rimmed and belted cases have a pre-set point from which they "headspace". Because of this pre-set factor, manufacturers are not as careful as they could/should be when they cut chambers. This sloppyness too often results in excess "chamber-space" which is too often refered to by the masses as "headspace" and it results in leaving room for the case to expand excessivly, resulting in case-head separations from over working the brass. The answer is to partially full length resize, filling up the chamber-space and effectivly ignoring the belt and "headspacing" off the shoulder!

RD,
not exactly, but it is true in some cases.
Part of the problem is that the belts of the brass very greatly ... in fact, ALL are short of the headpsace spec, and some more than others ..
BUT that is not the problem for them seperating .. it is that die makers resive great at the area immediately before the belt, taking them back to a <spec condition, while the chamber is great than spec.

take a black marker and color the case infront of the belt.. you'll see for yoruself, quickly

and the in/out/in/out working of the brass, right at the belt for a terminator (in this case, headspace isn't actually a condition) the brass hardens and cracks RIGHT there.

Ole Hollywood enspousing annealing at the belt? oh my .. talk about weakening the web ... Ihave always heard to only anneal the shoulder and the neck/case mouth ..

i can see how that could lead to an explosive condition

Hey Doc, look at the post date of this thread....2002

I doubt that Greg is watching anymore.

quote:

But I do have a question of you.……
How does annealing have anything to do with case head separation?[

Not Much ,I see your point Ted , I didn't even look at the date !.

I was more interested in establishing some type of a thread ,where re loaders could post , experiences on

such things as number of re loads on brands of brass , how many re loads before annealing , what type re loads

Bullet weight FPS per caliber ,Powder charge data , Etc. . Things like that , which could possibly benefit

ALL of US and maybe prevent some future case head separation issues . Just an Idea ;

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
"actually".. belted cases are known for this, due to resizing before the belt, and expansion at the same point .. same thing as bending a wire back and forth to break it ...

don't get all twisted up, you can prove it yourself with a set of dial calipers.. digitals work good... take a fire HH case ... measure it about .100 in front of the belt, towards the mouth ... scratch the case there ... full length resize it .. measure again...

jeffe, doesn't the same thing happen with non-belted cases? I mean, doesn't the sizing die squeezes the case back to specs in about the same place, whether it has a belt or not? I haven't understood how the belted case is different than any other case in that regard.

I mean if one did your test with the calipers, and markers and such would not the results be the same with or without the belt?

On my 458 WM cases, I have the die backed way off bottom, so it partially sizes the brass. It has been working good that way, but from the looks of the fired brass, I think the chamber is minimum specs. That probably wouldn't apply the same way to something like a 338 WM or other with a shoulder.

KB

quote:

I haven't understood how the belted case is different than any other case in that regard.

beause the belt acts as a "pivot point" working the brass there, not along the entire case. like bending a wire back and forth to break the wire

Keeping Brass from excessive stretching regardless of design ,is keeping it as close to your chamber

dimensions as possible . While still allowing for chambering . Hunting rounds are worse than BR rounds .

Simply because if a BR round doesn't feed it's no big deal , a hunting round could cost one their life !

Setting shoulder back .001 .002 ,not excessively trimming back on cartridge neck length .

It's about all that can be done .

Thanks jeffe and doc and others. It's useful info, and something to ponder, especially the "pivot point" re belted mags.

After all, why reload, even for hunting ammo, and be sloppy about it? I think it's worth the extra effort to minimally size the brass. It's just a matter of paying attention to detail, and slowing down a bit. I generally cycle all the loaded shells in a batch/box through the intended rifle anyway. On normal hunting loads or target loads, (not DG loads) I always felt some level of satisfaction when I feel that slight resistance to closing the bolt, knowing the reason is the brass shoulder is tight against the shoulder in the chamber.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
"actually".. belted cases are known for this, due to resizing before the belt, and expansion at the same point .. same thing as bending a wire back and forth to break it ...

don't get all twisted up, you can prove it yourself with a set of dial calipers.. digitals work good... take a fire HH case ... measure it about .100 in front of the belt, towards the mouth ... scratch the case there ... full length resize it .. measure again...

I agree with the above, but it will also happen with Non-Belted Cases that have been FLRed.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

jeffe, doesn't the same thing happen with non-belted cases? I mean, doesn't the sizing die squeezes the case back to specs in about the same place, whether it has a belt or not? I haven't understood how the belted case is different than any other case in that regard.

Yes, it does.

Jeffe has an interesting thought about a Pivot Point created by the Belt. But for me it gets back to FLRing, which always reduces the Case Life due to Insipient Case Head Separations, whether they are Belted or not.

In Controlled Feed, Fixed Ejector rifles, when FLRed or NSed, the Case simply lays on the bottom of the Chamber.

In Push Feed, Spring Ejector rifles, when FLRed or NSed, the Case is "shoved crooked" in the Chamber by the force of the Ejector pushing against the Case Head.

So, unless a person P-FLRs, the CenterLine of the Case never properly aligns with the CenterLine of the Chamber.
-----

Many years ago I read in a worthless Gun Rag about some Hack deriding the Belted Cases as having a short life. Having loaded a good number of Belted and Non-Belted Cases, I realized he was talking about FLRing and wondered why he had not noticed the same thing with Non-Belted Cartridges(since they act exactly the same).

Decided to run a Life Test on three 7mmRemMag Cases using a SAFE MAX Load. Used R-P Cases, Rem 9 1/2Ms , IMR-4831 and 150gr Nosler Solid Bases(100/box back then). All Cases were P-FLRed and no annealing was done.

After the 33rd shot in each Belted Case, I noticed " 1 " Neck Split. Had I Annealed the Cases along the way, it would have been interesting to see how many shots those Cases would have made.

If a person is Hunting in Dangerous Game country, or using a semi-auto, pump and some lever actions(depends on the cartridge), then I'd encourage them to always FLR and simply accept the shorter Case Life - whether it is Belted or Non-Belted.

Otherwise, I've never experienced a problem with a Belted Case that does not also occur in a Non-Belted Case.

In old Winchester and Remington Brass 40 plus year old ,

I've got some which have gone 40 Plus re loads , annealed after 7-10 times depending on load .

I just used a couple of them !. without a single separation . Did finally blow a hole

in the shoulder neck area on one don't know which .

It may of had an age spot on the brass which weakens brass over time .

I'm certain those were Winchester Super X and Remington Core Lokt . Funny story ; I bought a few boxes of each

back in mid 60's, I used a couple of them during 2 hunting seasons . Then they set along with my Riles pistols

and everything else I owned ; For a few years while Uncle Sam provided my weapons and ammo .

Then college and what not , well I then bought reloading stuff . As I've been banging away with the 7's for

the last few weeks , I came across a fresh box of each underneath a lot of reloads !. 1965 Vintage Super X

7mm Remington Magnum Winchester .

quote:

1965 Vintage Super X 7mm Remington Magnum Winchester.

I'd like to see the pricetag on those...