The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Another American company sold...Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Berger Bullets announced today that it has been sold to the NAMMO group located overseas. No mention of if or when production will shift. I wonder who will be next... | ||
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What country? I sure do like their bullets. NRA Patron member | |||
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Raufoss Norway. Nanno is a aerospace and defence contractor. Seems they also own SK, Vihtavuori and Lapua. Most likely nothing will change at Berger. Here is the announcement - http://www.bergerbullets.com/b...s-joins-nammo-group/ ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Oh boy! Even MORE expensive bullets than before. Gulf of Tonkin Yacht Club NRA Endowment Member President NM MILSURPS | |||
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PRK is already another country. | |||
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So where's the rock you live under, little boy. | |||
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So, the man obviously received an acceptable offer. Don't like it, use your money to buy company's you like. Capitalism at work. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Yup. | |||
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RUAG owns Norma. Same, same. More acquisitions likely where there is IP. | |||
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I have no opinion on the sale, other than the profit will not be staying here any longer. What a number of you globalists here fail to realize, is that at a certain tipping point we will fail as a country, as Rome did, when we begin to rely heavily on political climates in other countries; having shipped the industries that employ American workers out. 38% of the households in the US rely 100% on government handouts for their legal income. So, ignore the unpleasant reality of the $$$ going overseas, until you go to work one morning and are told your company was sold, and your job is going out... | |||
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One of the places I've worked was sold to a European company; they moved the high-value-added jobs to Europe and dispersed the others among low-cost-of-living USA locations. It's policy in some countries, to buy the good jobs and disperse the rest. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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So, what are all you proud nationalists going to do? Pass a law that says a man can't sell his property to anyone (and no, I am not including national security related items) he wishes at a price that a willing buyer and seller agree upon. What would you think of a law that says you can't buy or sell firearms? Pah, I detest hypocrisy. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I don't understand your comment. My point is that I'm surprised they've put up with PRK this long. With NAMMO backing them perhaps they can move/expand production to a location that wants it. | |||
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Gato, if you are having trouble grasping the implications, just think Hummv. They had most of the military market sewn up, and GM decided to sell them to China. Within a few months, the US had cancelled their contracts, and within a year, the company was out of business. Just several thousand good-paying manufacturing jobs, GONE! People with jobs like that are the ones who buy houses, not single wide trailers, and can afford to send their children to college; not the ones who work at Wal-Mart... The US government does not buy foreign very often, perhaps we might follow their lead... | |||
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A "Directive 10-289" sort of law is not our kind of thing. National Security Items? If something is too good, it becomes exclusive to the king? Too many of us are looking for someone to give us jobs instead of looking for work that needs done. I used to have one of the jobs that was sold overseas, now do only freelance work, and mostly for startup companies. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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I didn't know that PRK doesn't "want" Berger. Though it would not surprise me. | |||
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That is history Rich No civilization or country has survived as a world leader for more than a couple hundred years - Except one. Guess! Even the British and roman empires collapsed after 300 years. Only one "country" dominated for about 1500 years as the world's richest economy.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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you'd complain if they hung you with a new rope -- company is on more sound financial footing that it was, QED opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Egypt??  I am fine with free trade. Even globaly. Competition is not something to fear, it is good! The problem I have with Americas current global marketing scheme is the highest corporate tax rate in the world. Talk about motivation to get the hell out!! Brain dead Liberal policy is the problem. Declare war on industry and what do you expect to happen?  AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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If you want to know where the USA is headed, just look at cities chronically run by liberals... Baltimore Detroit Philadelphia Chicago ...etc. Unfortunately, IMO, we are now beyond the point of no return. The takers out number the makers, and the makers that remain are leaving the USA just like they left the cities mentioned above. It is just a matter of time. | |||
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jeffe, you focus way too much on the messenger (as usual) and ignore or miss the message entirely. The reality here is that most of the people in America are NOT college educated business professionals. They do not own dot-com companies ore earn six-figure incomes. Many of them used to work in steel mills, or build cars and trucks, or mines. Foreign interests have purchased many of the steel mills in this country, and shuttered them. The town I grew up in had four steel mills employing nearly 10,000 employees. Those payrolls supported grocery stores, automotive dealerships, and about 80% of those employees bought homes. The customer support groups made a good living as well. I only remember one or two of my friends Mothers having to work outside the home. When the Japanese bought those steel mills, they shut them down to eliminate competition for Japanese steel. To take advantage of getting a tax write-off for the cost, companies moved their production overseas. Last I knew, you were driving a Dodge pickup. American made, in Saltillo, Mexico. There's a Ford plant a couple miles away. The Japanese now build more cars and trucks in the US than the Big Three do. The debt the US government will admit to, is in excess of Twenty-three TRILLION DOLLARS!!! The actual number is a couple trillion more. We are the biggest junk bond sellers in the world. FIAT could hold a press conference Monday and announce that, effective immediately, they are ceasing production of all Chrysler products. We buy imported products because they are cheaper. Then we bemoan the fact that production keeps going overseas. I am retired, and my government disability is guaranteed forever. I could, sit back and just watch the show. According to you, that is what I should do...? God Bless all the Globalists here, just wait for the sale and closure of your company, and report back how that works for you. | |||
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yo -- read what i ACTUALLY wrote -- every word of it...
*emphasis added one doesn't buy a premium brand to shutter it ... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The EPA is what killed our steel mills. Just ask Pittsburgh. The cost of keeping up with overbearing regulations kills their profit margin, so they get out. The same reason why Caterpillar no longer makes motors for class 8 trucks. Again, our own brain dead policies! So they pack up and go where there is no EPA!! Where they can make a profit. That ought to fix "Global warming"...  Liberals who vote on this crap dont think it through, and the jerks who implement it quite frankly are America haters who know EXACTLY what they are doing. Now Americas coal industry is in their sights and before they are through we will be buying our own uranium back from Russia just to power a damn light bulb. Funny how these same schmucks dont have a problem with China or India's coal industry.. If you think protectionism is the way to go just research the Smoot Hawley act. Protectionism doesnt work! But if people like Obama would just get their boot of the necks of Americas industry then there is no need for protectionism. America would very quickly become #1 again. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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Wstrnhunter you are very correct! Same thing goes for our own domestic oil producers. Over the top ridiculous EPA regulations that increase their operating costs to the point we can't drill and sell our own oil. As a kid I remember being able to see oil rigs off the California coast, they are no longer there, regulated out of existence. | |||
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To blame the EPA for your steel industry's problems is like blaming the doctors for your problem with obesity & heart disease. The EPA has a valid role to play - to ensure that the large corporations do not cut corners and pollute the environment just to make big profits. Look at the case of the Koch brothers pollution all their plants with "dirty" crude oil and paying millions in fines and then arguing that the government is wrong! The flow on effect is that the American steel mills have been sold to Mithal steel from India. those crooks now pollute India and make even ore money with even bigger cuts to corners and to quality standards. Just like the Chinese. Criminal capitalism is thriving in the US and being exported all over the world!  "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Sounds like we should enact a unilateral ban on all things Indian. No dirty Indian Steel here!! | |||
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It's been a long time, but I seem to remember Lukens and Carpenter shifting over to premium alloys and letting the Asians have the market for garden-variety stuff. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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In 1960 the unions went on a strike that was intended to put America on its knees. Their demands were extreme and they would not budge. In desperation, the various companies that had to have steel turned to imported steel. It was that or close their doors. At the time, I was working as a welder for a structural steel company. I was laid off and the company was reduced to a small core of workers that did what they could with what they had to work with. The steel union was going to teach America a lesson but they ended up being schooled. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Yup, can't maintain a country on service industries, which is what's happening. Only so much need for computer operators and janitors. .  Grizz Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln Only one war at a time. Abe Again. | |||
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yes, and the more janitors we create the fewer computer programmers we need. | |||
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I had no idea everybody here was a clairvoyant... I am amazed at the number of "facts" presented here by folks with zero knowledge of the details of the actual transaction. I am in awe of you. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike, I am on the Berger Email list. They sent me a complete copy of the press release. As I wrote, line two reads "partnership". Line four reads "acquired by". Berger no longer controls their own destiny. They are owned by NAMMO, just like you own the car/truck sitting in your driveway. I believe, based on several centuries of history, that the socialist agenda driving the democrats is global equality. The "New World Order/Government" the talk about. They absolutely cannot raise the standard of living world wide. Nor do they wish to. Instead, they are reintroducing a more modern version of the feudal system. That requires them to lower the living standard of the "haves" to that of the "have nots". Take the recent history of the US. I came home from my first tour of Vietnam. About two hours later, my Father and I went car shopping. I came home with a bright red Plymouth Roadrunner. The next year the EPA and congress mandated a 90% reduction in emissions. Killed the affordable high performance car industry. You can still buy a hotrod here, they just start close to fifty-thousand dollars. The next thing was gasoline, in 1974. 700-1000% increase by OPEC. Does the government care? Nope, they enjoyed it. My nephew worked the past four years at the Baaken Oilfield in the Dakotas. Can you explain to me why those fields are closed? Then, explain to me why nearly 40% of the oil pumped in Alaska goes to Japan? The blue collar jobs are leaving this country. You live less than ten miles from the Unemployment Office in Boise. Drop by there sometime and see what sort of jobs they have online. Service Sector, most of them. Then, explain to me why about 1/3rd of the people working at McDonalds, etc are over forty. Hint: it's not a new career field choice. regards, Rich | |||
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Damn, Rich, you need to stick to something you know something about because economics ain't it. First part of your comment, Nammo is a Norway/Finnish Co. Norway is 3 slots ahead of the US, 6 compared to 9, on the world's richest list. Finland is farther down, just behind France and ahead of the UK. Hardly a group of "have nots". Oil comments: I'll answer these quickly so am going to avoid the myriad of details involved. The Bakken fields are FAR from "closed". Most new drilling has stopped for a simple economic reason, the lower price of oil and the quality of the Bakken oil makes it generally uneconomic to drill. However your "closed" is ridiculous. In Aug. 2016 the Bakken produced 930 thousand plus barrels of oil, out of 10,720 wells. To arbitrarily pick a comparison date, 2 years before in 8/14, it produced just over 1 million BO out of 8289 wells. The decline is a natural consequence of less drilling and the fact that all wells decline on a fairly constant slope from the IP (initial production) daily rates. As to your second, completely false statement, the first N. Slope oil exported in 10 years to any foreign country went to Korea in 2014.
xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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That point by Grizz is the key. The US boomed in the post war era with the manufacturing sector taking off to a new level along with consumerism. Go back in to 1870s when the US economy overtook Britain and you see the earlier stage of Industrial expansion in the US - Railways, mechanised agriculture etc. In the last 30 years in particular (post 1987 stock market crash and the digital economy), the artificial economy has taken complete charge. 80% of banking is in "trade" - not of manufactured goods but in speculation and "creating value". In other words its is all about building new "bubbles". The service industry is built on this artificial bubble. Over 70% of the value of such "assets" are notional - in the "perception of the market". Like Trump claiming he is worth $10 billion while one estimate is as low as $150 million & Bloomberg says it is more like $2.8 billion. The situation is made even more challenging when you look at wages - the US wages are low - but still very high compared to other countries where manufacturing is cheaper. Then add the factor of other developing economies catching up - IMF has just released data that China is now the world's largest economy with $11 trillion GDP - overtaking the US. The US and the West introduced Globalism as a virtue to camouflage Imperialism and 20th century Colonialism. Criminal Capitalism is central to that institutionalised system. Now suddenly Globalism is not so attractive when you no longer control and manipulate its course. You may control the fleet but not the winds of Globalism! Here are the top 10 US exports in 2015 Machines, engines, pumps: US$205.8 billion (13.7% of total exports) Electronic equipment: $169.8 billion (11.3%) Aircraft, spacecraft: $131.1 billion (8.7%) Vehicles: $127.1 billion (8.4%) Oil: $106.1 billion (7.1%) Medical, technical equipment: $83.4 billion (5.5%) Plastics: $60.3 billion (4%) Gems, precious metals, coins: $58.7 billion (3.9%) Pharmaceuticals: $47.3 billion (3.1%) Organic chemicals: $38.8 billion (2.6%) Apart from Arms supply and Pharmaceuticals, what does the US offer the rest of the world that they cannot get anywhere else in a better deal? China already owns much of US debt. China already owns much of US manufactured supplies. How is the US going to reverse the trend?
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Gato.s question: why Alaska oil goes to Japan? Because it is more efficient for the oil to go to Japan. | |||
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Poor old USA. It's really too bad we don't have one company that produces 1/14 of our GDP like New Zealand. Like Rich, if you knew what you were talking about it might be worth reading. Stick to NZ, you don't know shit about Americans. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Rich, That acquisition contract of even small company like Berger is likely 20 plus pages of terms and conditions. If you think that press release contains even just the material terms and conditions of the sale you are uninformed regarding the general nature of business acquisitions. Have you ever read an acquisition agreement for a company of Berger's size? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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First of all, it wasn't my question. Second of all, Alaskan crude oil doesn't go to Japan in any significant quantities compared to overall production.
xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Mike, there are restaurants in Boise that have more employees than Berger... | |||
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I would submit that if they were indeed profiting from the garden variety steel they would have kept on doing it. No business venture "gives up" a major share of their profits without good reason. | |||
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