500grains,are the North Forks accurate?They look very similar to the Bear claw bullet.Have you used them on north american game?

Anyone get good accuracy with the Trophy Bonded bear claw bullet?I am going to pick up some TSX bullets tommorrow.I will test Np,A-frame,TSX,Balistic tip,and Bearclaw for accuracy and get back with my results(as soon as my new dies arrive).

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I will test Np,A-frame,TSX,Balistic tip,and Bearclaw for accuracy and get back with my results(as soon as my new dies arrive).

No need to test the Btip in my opinion.

quote:

and until I find something to shoot that a Nosler can't handle I'll likely stick with them.

And that's not going to happen, at least as long as you are hunting on THIS planet!

I think in the end this boils down to cost and game to be hunted though.

For 99% of N American hunting Nosler work, always do, and they don't cost so much that your hestitant to work up loads and shoot them at the range.

Real Premium bullets are great but for all the game I hunt Noslers work, and I can afford to do extensive load development with them.

I am going to start using Swifts real soon though, they make one of the few .423 diameter bullets available, and I always work out what bullets I intend to use before I build rifles. less suprises in the final product that way.

I am also real curious about their 7mm line. Just haven't had the time to get rolling on that yet, but I have intentions of getting some 7x57 and 280 Rem loads worked up next year with Swifts.

According to the GREAT JOHN BARNSASS, gunwriter know it all, the partitions are the greatest and the A-frames suck. Now we all know that gunwriters know everything and there is no use in arguing with them, (at the expense of bieng called ignorant).

Well, JB is buddy-buddy with the Nosler crew, so what do you expect? Objectivity isn't a requirement for being a gun writer.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Have never tested Swifts and Noslers side-by-side. So have no comparable data per se.

Nor have I...and I agree completely that this is reasonably subjective.

I will add this however...I've seen many photos posted here on AR of Nosler Partitions recovered from game.....I've yet to see anyone at all post a pic of a recovered A-Frame.

Not to forget that a recovered bullet is only from dead game...and that's the goal as I recall.

Vapodog,
I have a bag of recovered Swift A-Frames (everything from impala to buffalo), Nosler partitions (impala and 2 kudu), North Forks (buffalo and zebra), Hornady solids (buffalo), and a Barnes monolithic solid (elephant) somewhere around the house. All together there are probably 15 to 20 bullets. Most are from a 375 H&H, except the Barnes monolithic from the ele was a 416.

Even though all were recovered, the only one of these that was a less than stellar performer was a Nosler Partition from a kudu. It was from a strong angle into the rear of the rib cage toward the opposite shoulder, and the shank flattened as it clipped a couple of ribs on the way in, and only penetrated about 6 to 8". A long followup ensued before finally finding the animal. Thank goodness we had a great tracker who kept us on the right trail through the head high grass!!!

On that same trip I had another Nosler thrown off course on a shot at the point of the shoulder of a leopard, exiting behind the rib cage on the off side. A "VERY INTERESTING" followup ensued (After the leopard ran right toward the blind, stopping about 2 or 3 feet from me on the other side of a rather flimsy grass and branch wall before sneaking away into the waist high grass ). An adrenaline-filled three quarters of an hour later, we found him under a big bush where he had been waiting for us when he died.

After this I swore off the Noslers for the 375 in Africa, but I still use them in North America at times. I much prefer the A-Frame or the North Fork for big or dangerous animals, but others have had good luck with the Noslers, so I guess you pay your money and take your choice .

Jim

Swift A-Frames from a 375 H&H



Nosler Partitions from a 375 H&H

double post

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:
I am not a fan of the New Barnes bullets, The originals which are impossible to get nowdays were great though.

Schromf - What diameter, weight, and jacket thickness of Barnes originals are you looking for?

I guess I'm an old-stick-in-the-mud, but I've been using the NPs since the late 1950's and have never found a reason to change to anything more expensive or tougher. Have three little drawers full of them taken from game that look just like the pictures in the magazine ads... Matter of fact, for lots of game, even NPs are sort of an uneccesary indulgence for my shooting. There may be better bullets, but I don't need them, so I use the added money they would cost to buy more bullets and do more shooting. I find keeping my shooting eye in shape is the best edge for my hunting....

Must add, I have had very good performance accuracy-wise from the Barnes-X bullets, and not very acceptable accuracy from the Barnes "Originals".

Some of my acquantances couldn't get their Barnes-X loads to shoot accurately at first, but it turns out they had tried to use the same weight Barnes-X bullets as they had been using in lead-core bullets. That can be a mistake...it was in their instances, anyway. At the same weight, the Barnes-X bullets are considerably longer than lead core bullets. That often means a twist that was quick enough to stabilize a lead-core bullet will not be quick enough to stabilize the same weight Barnes-X bullet. By dropping one "increment" in weight, their accuracy equalled their old lead-core-bullet loads. (For instance, if they had been using .30 cal. 180-gr.lead-core bullets, they dropped to 165 gr.Barnes-X bullets.)

In my .405 Winchester and .404 Jeffrey rifles, the Barnes Originals never shot worth sour owl poop (like 2"-4.5" groups) but with Barnes-X bullets, now shoot 1 MOA or better at 100 yards.

quote:

Schromf - What diameter, weight, and jacket thickness of Barnes originals are you looking for?

I am not sure of jacket thickness, and I am completely out of the 30 cal bullets so I couldn't even disect one to figure it out.

The two bullets I miss are the 30 cal 250 gr. I would need to dig through some old load data and see if I ever recorded the actual bullet diameter. I doubt it though I usually check but don't record that datum. I am looking for another source on 250 gr 30 cal bullets, and if I don't find them am considering having some customs made up, if I go that route I will possibly post a group buy deal. My application is my 30 mags, in dark timber, I am not looking for a long distant bullet, and 150 yards or so is the yardage I am expecting these to perform in. Big bears at uncomfortable close distances is the application, but I must admit I flattened a muley one year with this same load, I don't think he moved an inch. I might get fiddling with my 30-06 and this load again, but I never got serious about this when I had access to the 250 gr bullets, just a tad heavy for the 06 case, and these need a mag of some sort.

Second bullet which I still have some of is the 175 grain 7mm. I think I am one my last box, and these are being rationed right now, if there isn't game in front of one, I don't use them. These aren't as critical as I have suitable replacemnts and I have Nosler Partions in the same wieght and and there are or suitable bullets availbale which I am planning on working with next year. I have Swift A-Frames radared in on load development. If I could find a couple of boxes of the Barnes 175 Gr I would jump on them though, with rationing those would last me quite a while, and I wouldn't need to go through the load development. The Partions are OK, I have not been able to reproduce the accuracy with the NP's I was getting with the Barnes. It is close, and we are talking less than a 1/4 MOA at this point, I am still trying to tweak the NP loads , but I am really going to try the A-Frames first.

No the real problen child is those big heavy 30 cals. I want 240-250 gr bullets, and I must me the only person that laments there loss I quess, nobody is making anything close anymore.

When this rolls bak to the 338-06 vrs the standard 30-06 this is the one area the 338 bore gives us, readily available long heavy bullets with high SD's. It isn't that the 30 bore isn't capable, I guess its the fascination with fast and light nowdays and the manufacturers make what sells I guess. This just might end up me having some customs made in the end, I have had my eye open for literally years to replace these bullets. I don't have a single bullet left, and a regret not stashing a boxx or two away when I had the chance.

I have never had issue with the old Barnes originals and accuracy, I only used a few bullet types though so maybe I just got lucky.

I am not sure your theory of why the new "X" bullets aren't working for me is correct though. If you will notice the two bullets I am discussing are very heavy for caliber, these were already long projectiles, with very high SD's. the 7mm were around .311 and the 30 cal's were in the nieghborhood of .330. I am pretty certain the issue is ( and this goes back some years ) that Barnes had problems with the first generation X bullets, and did some re-engineering to correct issues, and the new bullets have been fixed. I am not motivated to experiment to find out though, once burned twice shy is where I stand nowdays on them.

If I get this 30 cal bullet solved I will post some details, its been ongoing though for some years, and it isn't for lack of looking. I toyed with the idea of making my own even, I just don't have the time though, I can't keep up with my reloading as it is right now. Another thought is get on my lathe and turn out some, I might give this a whirl yet, problem is I would prefer a lead core, and I won't be able to do that on the lathe. If you know of any really long and heavy 30 cal bullets let me know, but if its under 240 grains I am not interested.

OBTW, If I was getting the same accuracy results you were getting out of the originals I wouldn't give a hoot either, I always got sub 1 MOA with my loads. These were hunting loads not target loads, and both were really used mainly by me in dark timber, where a 200 yard shot was a real long one, most of these I used in under 50 yard shots, and the muley I mentioned before was under 15 yards, front shot, all they way through the amimal and no bullet was recovered (30-06). These really were flying frieght trains, the last game animal I shot with these was a quartering shot on a elk, not often you see a elk go right down. I have since shifted to using 200 gr bullets, but on the application I was using these they were just awesome, these and a 30 mag were a marraige made in heaven.

In my opinionn one can get by with ordinary bullets,when you need premium bullets is when your caliber is not the right match for the game.I would prefer an accurate bullet.I've got a silvertip that has mushroomed very nice.I am sure there is no match for a 400gr silvertip-if it exists.

Wow, two people on one thread who don't like John Barsness. No sarcasm here - I didn't know there were two people alive with that opinion! He's the only gunwriter I trust anymore.

Jaywalker

I've gotten some amazing groups from the 280g A-Frame out of my 358-404. The reamer was cut for that bullet, so I guess it makes since. I have tried the Noslers, but they only do 250. And those group pretty well, but the A-Frames still have a little edge there, and I'd trust them more at these speeds.
The 250g X I tried were slower, and I couldn't get them to group. Seems weird that a solid like that wouldn't be much easier to machine concentric than a mostly lead bullet.
The NF seems to be the holy grail, and I'll eventually tru them, though I can't see them being any "better" for me than the A-Frame. The 270g would likely give me more speed, but it's all insane at this point anyway, hunting mostly elk with this gun.
Any other rifle and I don't like paying all the money for bullets. My '06 likes Hornadies, and I don't see needing more for it. The 308 likes Sierras. I won't pay $1 bullet for no reason.

Partitions and AFrames are two different animals. Use the NP for the smaller stuff and AFrames for the bigger stuff. The NP in the smaller bullets (375 and under) kill from the front section disintegrating...which is why deer drop dead in their tracks. They're going to die from AFrames but usually not in their tracks. Shot a lot of impala that proves the now obvious!

Hi again Schromf...


sorry I don't have any Barnes Originals in the 7 m/m or .30 diameters to offer you...do have some spares in .411" and .423"diameters, both being 400 grain bullets. -Do have a couple of boxes of .330" diameter 250-grainers too, but on reflection think I'll save those .330" bullets for my mint little Hungarian carbine (now that I no longer have my WR .318).

Actually, I was NOT trying to suggest the reason YOU didn't get accuracy from the X bullets was because of the weight(s) you used, just commenting in general that was why some of my friends didn't get good accuracy from them at first. I figger you are experienced enough I am not about to need to tell you how to reload. Everyone else out there who reads the post will have to decide for themselves if that shoe fits them....

Of course, if you didn't try lighter weight Barnes-X bullets, now I'll have to suggest you give the lighter weights a whirl. Might just do the trick for you too. Or not....

Best wishes, anyway.

Make that 3 people that don't like JB. I read an article he wrote one time where he stated the problems with various rifle scopes when partnered up with magnum rifles. One particular brand of scope he used had the reticle crack twice within a very short period of time, after the second time he wrote the manufacturer a nasty gram in complaint of their product. JB the brilliant found out a short while later that he had installed the scope wrong causing the frequent failure. Trust him?

Alberta,

I am sorry if I came off gruff in my post, I never thought you were criticizing my reloading skills, hell if I am making a mistake I will admit it and gained knoowledge is always good in my book. Otherwise I just have one way to head in the future and getting stupid doesn't have many attractions.

My reason for looking at the heavy thirty bullets are exactly why your wanting to hold on to those .330 bullets. That is a big game combo.

I have been just piled up and buried at work and I come up for a breath on occasion. Shitty side is I see some cavalry in the very far distance, but my wagons are circled and doubt relief is going to get here in time to make a bit of difference. Basically my politicians in Washington have finally realised they need to send in the calvary, unfortunately for me its going to be too little too late.

Back on topic, I am going to figure out a 240-250 solution for my 30 mags. I want a min of 2500 fps with this, and I am getting right at 2900 fps with 200 NP and my 30 mags. I know I can reproduce 2500-2600 ish with this and I am not going to give up on getting this high SD load back.

If you were playing with your WR you were shooting a very similar load to what I want back in my 30 Mags.

Anyway thanks for the post and once I get my 404 project farther along I will talk to you about those .423 Barnes you have. Are those old originals? Something tells me I would like that in a 400 gr slug moving along at 2250 fps.

Schromf -

Yes, the few hundred .423" diameter 400 grain Barnes bullets I have left are "Originals"...in fact, I bought this particular batch in 1969, if my memory is correct. (As I age, my memory is luckily still perfect...only problem is, it is now only .00004317" long! [Big wry Grin])

Anyway, let me know when you get your rifle built and I'll send you a few, gratis, to try for accuracy in your new tube.

AC

P.S.: I used to shoot my .318 WR bolt gun a lot. Loved it for large, hoofed game. Still damn the gov't of Canada for making me sell my large (I mean LARGE) collection of English bolt, double and single-shot rifles, Mannlicher-Shoenauers, and commercial Mauser sporters back in the 70's. Particularly miss all my Dan'l Frasers.....

If you know of a source of new .330" groove diameter barrels long enough to finish up at 25" or even 24", I'll spring for a .318 WR reamer, and we could both enjoy shooting the .318 in our own guns again.

quote:

If you know of a source of new .330" groove diameter barrels long enough to finish up at 25" or even 24", I'll spring for a .318 WR reamer, and we could both enjoy shooting the .318 in our own guns again.

Now that is a interesting idea, I do in fact know of at least one and most probably two sources of thos barrels. I know where to find bullets, as Woodleigh is still making those and I suspect I could find another source or two.

Big question I have would be brass and go root through my actions and see if I have something suitable. That way I could just leave my 30's alone and it would give me an excellent excuse to build yet another rifle. I will do some homework on this, if your serious we should talk, this idea ceratinly has merit, odd ball gun projects always brighten up my day. And I need to check but I think Woodliegh is making some 275 gr bullets in this. I will do some checking and verify that that later....neat idea

Brass is no sweat. One pass of an '06 case into a .318 WR sizing die, or better yet, into a .318 WR file-trim die, and you've got what you need for "basic" brass.

(if the sizing die has a smaller than .375" diameter seating stem, it is best to cut the top off of the die on the lathe if more clearance is needed for the full length '06 brass, or to trim the cases to about 2.44" length before running them into the die. They will shorten slightly as the necks expand in the die, but after initial sizing/forming it will still be necessary to trim them to the correct .2400" OAL.)

The .318 WR, for lack of a better description, is a shortened '06, opened up to take .330" bullets.

It is also very easy to make .318 WR from .35 Whelen brass, but more trouble to obtain in my opinion. Besides, "pick-up" '06 brass is available free on almost every rifle range......

P.S.: Another very similar performing round is the 8x57 S-bore Mauser loaded with some of the older 236 gr. RN bullets. One of the reasons I still love the 8x57, matter of fact.

quote:

Originally posted by Obmuter:
...One particular brand of scope he used had the reticle crack twice within a very short period of time, after the second time he wrote the manufacturer a nasty gram in complaint of their product. JB the brilliant found out a short while later that he had installed the scope wrong causing the frequent failure....

Could you give some more details about this? Not to jump in on one side or the other of the JB debate, I just think it might be valuable information some could learn from. Thanks.

Oh, and I'm with Schromf 100% on heavy 30 cals...but I plan to launch them around 3000 fps.

Alberta,

Last noght I did some homework and yes other than the WR being about .008 samller on the rim, I could see this being formed out of 06 brass. Now bullet selection was another thing, I breifly searched and only Woodliegh seemed to be making bullets. DO you have another source? Also that 275 gr bullet I though was avaailable is in a .333 not .330. Do you know of any other source of bullets? I suppose you could get a swage die and run .338 bullets through it. Seems like an awful lot of work in the end, the 338-06 is darned close to being its twin brother and its easy ( I like easy and believe in KISS ). If I had a old WR rifle that was originally chambered in this I would most certainly keep it shooting, but building a new rifle with only two bullets being made would make me real nervous, downstream you could get burned on this.

Any insight into this bullet situation?

quote:

Oh, and I'm with Schromf 100% on heavy 30 cals...but I plan to launch them around 3000 fps

Ok I am curious and will bite, What case are you planning on using to do that. I could see it with a 378 Weatherby case, but I don't think any variant of the 375 H&H brass improved blown out, or other is going to get you there. Even the Ultra mag brass I would doubt that.

You must be thinking on Weatherby or 404 Jeff variant ( Dakota ). Years ago the reason I didn't build a 30-378 is because of lack of really heavy bullets, and I built a 338-378 instead. Much better bullet selection for that big case.

I really need to get this heavy thirty solved, this thread is like pouring gasoline on a fire, and I need to get my butt working this again seriously, I have side lined this to long.

Jon A,
do yu know of any sources of heavy thirty bullets?

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:
Alberta,

Last noght I did some homework and yes other than the WR being about .008 samller on the rim, I could see this being formed out of 06 brass. Now bullet selection was another thing, I breifly searched and only Woodliegh seemed to be making bullets. DO you have another source? Also that 275 gr bullet I though was avaailable is in a .333 not .330. Do you know of any other source of bullets? I suppose you could get a swage die and run .338 bullets through it. Seems like an awful lot of work in the end, the 338-06 is darned close to being its twin brother and its easy ( I like easy and believe in KISS ). If I had a old WR rifle that was originally chambered in this I would most certainly keep it shooting, but building a new rifle with only two bullets being made would make me real nervous, downstream you could get burned on this.

Any insight into this bullet situation?

Buffalo Arms Not as heavy as you would like, but reasonably priced.

Hawk bullets They offer a 200 grain bullet, but in the past they have been willing to make heavier weights with a reasonable minimum order (it was 200 bullets the last time I ordered a non-standard weight of a different caliber). They offer .333 bullets of 250 and 300 grains as standard weights (very easy to run these through a ring sizer to take them down to .330).

If you guys do go forward with this project, I might have interest as well. I still have a '98 action sitting around I believe.

Jim

Almost forgot that DKT offers .329 bullets, as did Graf's.

Well, now that adds an interesting twist. Barrels are available from Krieger and its a catolog item, but I haven't picked up the phone.

I also bet I could talk to Bauska and get tubes, if several of us were considering it I am sure he would make up the barrels, even if he wasn't geared up to currently. I just had them barrel a action for me, and my smith does a lot of work through them so if we got several of us together that would give us a cheaper option on the tubes than Krieger.

Your think very similar thought a I am, a 98 or varaint would be sweet in this.

Another really easy way to get .330 jacketed bullets is to "bump up" moderately smaller diameter ones which are already whatever weight one might want to shoot. All that is needed is a really simple 7/8-14 home-made die.

Just cut/thread some 1" cold-rolled round stock for the die body, then drill/ream the stock for the bullet shape/diameter desired.

(To get the proper reamer, take an old spare reamer you may have lying about, and grind (or even file) it to the shape/size you want the nose of the finished bullet to be, then de-burr and sharpen the edges in the area where stock has been ground away.)

Together with a proper diameter drill or two for the inital hogging out of stock and a straight, untapered reamer for establishing the diameter of the part of the die for the bullet body, it's just a matter of drilling, reaming and then using the home-made "bullet-point" reamer to ease up to the final shape one wants. There's probably lots of easier ways, too, but for a person with little more than a lathe of any size big enough to cut 7/8x14 threads, this will work.

Make a little bullet ram (rod) which will fit in place of the shell-holder by turning 1/2' drill rod to snap into one's press ram, and with the upper part of the rod about .001"(+0 /- <001) smaller than the bore at the base of the bullet bump die. Put the die in the press, put the bullet ram into the press ram. Set the bullet on top of the bullet ram and run it into the die. Adjust the amount the die is screwed into the press, to control how far the bullet will go into the die.

The typical Rock-Chucker press has enough leverage & frame strength to bump bullets up the .007" required to bump up 8 m/m bullets from .323" to .330".

I know this sounds daunting, but it is really dead simple. You have lots of machine experience, so would be no sweat for you, but anyone can do it if they just go slowly...about 1/4 the speed they feel secure at.

Really takes almost longer to write down the process for making the die & punch than to do it, once a person has done one of them.

Of course it is even easier to just make or buy a sizing die and size bigger bullets down, but I've never trusted that the jackets wouldn't spring away from the reduced diameter core when using the sizing-down approach. I know lots of people say they have no problem with jackets springing away from the cores, but with my luck they'd separate so far I'd have space enough to throw a Momma cat and her whole litter in there.

Also, for those who enjoy shooting cast bullets, there is no reason whatsoever they couldn't have an outfit like Mountain Moulds make them a mould for even a 300 grain .331" or .332" gas-checked bullet. Mountain Moulds has a mould design engine on their website, and I believe it directly digitally feeds their mould-making machinery, so what you design is what you get. Costs a little over $100 for any mould one would like to design, and as they store the digital program data, one can always get another mould just like it if need be. Gas checks can also be made from .338 or .35 GCs, again by using a home-made, hand-hammer-powered ram-post and die.

Certainly, there is no problem in propelling cast bullets to at least 2,200-2,300 fps when using the right alloy(s). I don't think a person is gonnma get much more than that with this capacity case and really heavy bullets, whether cast or jacketed.

I know this speed is possible, because I shoot 215 gr. RN cast bullets at 2,100-2,200 fps as a regular load from my much smaller cartridge case .30-BR rifles, and I move the 196 gr. cast bullets from the .30-BR at an average of 2,305 fps with match-winning accuracy

So, there are lots of bullet options for .330" bores, other than buying them....

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Partitions and AFrames are two different animals. Use the NP for the smaller stuff and AFrames for the bigger stuff. The NP in the smaller bullets (375 and under) kill from the front section disintegrating...which is why deer drop dead in their tracks. They're going to die from AFrames but usually not in their tracks. Shot a lot of impala that proves the now obvious!

I thought this was worth repeating...thanks Will.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Another really easy way to get .330 jacketed bullets is to "bump up" moderately smaller diameter ones which are already whatever weight one might want to shoot. All that is needed is a really simple 7/8-14 home-made die.

Just cut/thread some 1" cold-rolled round stock for the die body, then drill/ream the stock for the bullet shape/diameter desired.

(To get the proper reamer, take an old spare reamer you may have lying about, and grind (or even file) it to the shape/size you want the nose of the finished bullet to be, then de-burr and sharpen the edges in the area where stock has been ground away.)

Together with a proper diameter drill or two for the inital hogging out of stock and a straight, untapered reamer for establishing the diameter of the part of the die for the bullet body, it's just a matter of drilling, reaming and then using the home-made "bullet-point" reamer to ease up to the final shape one wants. There's probably lots of easier ways, too, but for a person with little more than a lathe of any size big enough to cut 7/8x14 threads, this will work.

Make a little bullet ram (rod) which will fit in place of the shell-holder by turning 1/2' drill rod to snap into one's press ram, and with the upper part of the rod about .001"(+0 /- <001) smaller than the bore at the base of the bullet bump die. Put the die in the press, put the bullet ram into the press ram. Set the bullet on top of the bullet ram and run it into the die. Adjust the amount the die is screwed into the press, to control how far the bullet will go into the die.

The typical Rock-Chucker press has enough leverage & frame strength to bump bullets up the .007" required to bump up 8 m/m bullets from .323" to .330".

I know this sounds daunting, but it is really dead simple. You have lots of machine experience, so would be no sweat for you, but anyone can do it if they just go slowly...about 1/4 the speed they feel secure at.

Really takes almost longer to write down the process for making the die & punch than to do it, once a person has done one of them.

AC,
It's times like this that I wish I had some machining skills . Unfortunately, I don't.

One question, what are you doing about an ejector pin with this set-up.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:

Ok I am curious and will bite, What case are you planning on using to do that.

Just the plain old 300 RUM. That puppy really comes alive with really heavy bullets and slow burning powder. My particular rifle has a very sloppy chamber (116.3 grains of water case capacity) and a generous freebore.

My old favorite load of H870 behind the 240 SMK gave me 2978 although I had resigned myself to dropping that load by a grain for hot weather use. It still would have been right at 2950 and very mild...and my new barrel will be an inch longer which is good for ~30+ fps all by itself and it's a 3-groove Lilja which are supposed to be nice and slick.

But then I ran out of H870. As much as I love Retumbo, it's too fast to be optimum for this application and I'm limited to 2850 with it. H50BMG gave me 2900 but accuracy sucked. I don't like that powder. So to match the old H870 you're left with military surplus WC872 but that stuff is so temperature sensitive you have to have winter/summer loads....

The good news is: I have every reason to believe the new US869 will, at the very least, match the old H870--if not exceed it--in this application--and it's very temperature stable.

So in the end, with the longer barrel and a slow burning ball powder, I'm quite confident I'll end up in the 2950-3000 range with 240's.

quote:

do yu know of any sources of heavy thirty bullets?

Give Richard an email and tell him what you're looking for: wildcatbullets@hotmail.com I believe he's off hunting at the moment but he should get back to you eventually. Last I heard he's still waiting on the jackets he ordered from the jacket maker for these long 30 cals. It may take some patience, but they will come eventually. Here are some samples he sent me to play with in .338 cal:



From the left, a 210 (bonded), 250 (bonded), 300 and a 350. From your description, it sounds like you'd want the style of the 250, second from the left (and that's probably the style you'd have to have from a 1:10 twist barrel for a 240--my new barrel will be a 1:9). Nothing fancy, just a flat base tangent ogive with a fairly large meplat--a shape similar to the typical A-Frame, TBBC, Grand Slam, etc. Not the most ballistically efficient shape, but it will still have a respectable BC from its massive SD.

The bullet of my dreams will be the style of the 210 at the far left. Flat based but with the ULD secant ogive which should give it a BC very similar to the 240 SMK. But it'll be a quality bonded "hunting bullet." This bullet might be OK in a 1:10 twist but I wouldn't guarantee it. These long and heavy bullets ought to perform better in a 1:9 twist (as well as the heaviest Barnes X's which I've found could use a bit extra stability for straighter penetration).

Hope that helps.

Alberta,

Two things I do a really crappy job at: One is any electrical welding, would you believe I was certified about 35 years ago, I wouldn't pay $.10 for my welds. I know what a good weld is and can spot one across the room from shipboard work, but if it isn't gas or solder I am in deep trouble, solder and gas I am a pro, electrical I just suck hind tit.

The other machining issue I have is I am working on good threads, I have improved a lot, I still am not happy. I bought my machines and taught myself so I have holes in my machining knowledge. My mill I have down, and most operations on my lathe. I am not ready for prime time on threads though, this would be a neat practice project though. The ram is a snap.

I did find a easy cheap fix ( I am a good engineer and problem solving is cake ) C&H makes bullet sizing dies for $57 a pass with a 338 cal bullet, I need to call them they are recommending .004" per pass and I want to see if that can be stretched to .008" if thats the case there is a wealth of 338 bullets, and one pass through the die and its a done deal.

Check your PM

Will,how many grains were you using on the impala?

quote:

AC,
It's times like this that I wish I had some machining skills . Unfortunately, I don't.

One question, what are you doing about an ejector pin with this set-up.

Jim

I knew I forgot to cover something!!

Most of the time, I take the easy way out,and drill a very small hole all the way through the bump die (vertically)...a hole about 1/16th"or 3/32" works fine...or for that matter the size of a medium-sized nail. then I take a piece of 4" long drill rod that size (or even that same medium-sized nail) , lap it into place for an easy sliding fit, and shove it about 1"-1-1/2" into a piece of 5/8" wooden dowel.Then, put the pin back into the die, with the dowel atop the die.

Shoving the bullet into the die will raise the pin (or nail) and dowel. When you lower the press and bullet rams (lowering the press ram automatically lowers the bullet ram), then just tap the top of the dowel with the palm of your hand. Out pops the bullet from the bottom of the die.

A nicer piece of work in some ways is to make the hole through the die about 1/4"-9/32" diameter, and insert rhe appropriate drill rod into the hole WHILE REAMING THE DIE. Done properly, That will give you an ejection rod with the profile of the end of the bullet nose cut into the tip of it. That pretty much means you can never shove the rod into the tip of the bullet, which is a good thing, and you probably will never bend the ejector rod either, which is another good thing. BUT, it is not always easy for the home mechanic to ream the die and the ejector rod simultaneously, with the rod inside the die during the process without having something slip or othewise go awry. So, the first method is much the easiest.

If a person uses the second method, it is also easy to make an automatic ejection system where lowering the press handle also drives the ejector rod down, ejecting the bullet. It's too complex for me to explain here verbally how that is done, but it is very simple in actual construction once you've ever seen one. If you need a look at something like that, send me a private message and I'll take a digital pic or two of mine and e-mail it/them directly to you. (I don't know how to post pics here...a member of the computer literatti I definitely ain't!)

From what I got out of some test firing,the A-frames don't seem to be that accurate.Both rifles I shot A-frames and trophy bonded bear claws out of did not seem to like them.Unless I was not using the right powder or quantity of.I prefer test firing out to 200 yards.

If you want to shoot the most accurate tough bullet try the North Forks. I shoot them from .270 up to .416 and they are the most consistently accurate primium bullet on the market. I have tried all the bullets except Woodleigh and GS. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
If you want to shoot the most accurate tough bullet try the North Forks. I shoot them from .270 up to .416 and they are the most consistently accurate primium bullet on the market. I have tried all the bullets except Woodleigh and GS. Good shooting.

Phurley5,

I agree with you on the North Forks, at least in the rifles I have tried them in. However, the A-Frames are no slouch in the accuracy department either.

Here is a comparison of comparable 375 H&H loads in the same rifle. These are representative 100 yard groups for this rifle under good conditions (low wind). With a better shooter and a higher power scope, they would probably be a little better, but I wouldn't expect a lot more from a light weight 375.

Jim

At 100yds all the differnt bullets I tried shoot within an inch or an inch and a half.That is from any rifle that is in good condition.That is also from a variety of calibres.At 200 yds they say another story.Some remain within an inch,others open from 1 inch to 1 foot.One brand that seems to open is swift a frame,also trophy bonded bear claw.I guess these bullets foul too easy.Someone said something about the Barnes x being a fouler,and less so the tsx due to the less surface area the rings provide.

I have killed several deer with Nosler Partition 454 Casull 260 grain bullets. This year I shot one heading towards me and recovered the bullet from just under the belly skin. It had expanded well and passed through a lung, the liver, etc. Worked perfectly, but it did lose quite a bit of its front core. Some lead flakes were in the wound channel. I have seen several recovered A-Frames (shot by others)that seemed to do a better job of retaining the front core, but I have not yet used any Swift bullets myself. I am interested in the A-Frame for use in my 444, but the balistic coefficient values look too low by comparison to Partitions. Is this difference real?

I think it's the best to simply experiment with various premium bullets, then hunt with the one that shoots best out of your rifle. I don't think it has to get a whole lot more complicated than that. They're ALL great, for the most part, and you can hunt with confidence with just about any of them.

I will say that I've generally had better accuracy with Nosler Partitions that A-Frames, and if some how the Partitions fail to penetrate well or kill well, I've failed to see it. In fact, the Partition's likely my favorite all-around hunting bullet........

AD