Sorry, this is another new to reloading post.
I have spend countless hours reading about reloading and I dont seem to be any closer to my goals. I live in the middle of nowhere and theres nobody to teach me how to reload either.

I really need some help with this and have A LOT of questions.

I have a Taurus .454 8 3/8 barrel
My goal is to make the best reloads possible for bear defense, personal/home defense and target shooting.

I will use mostly .45colt for my target loads.

Right now im just concentrating on the .454 loading for bear and defense.

Im told that bear defense and home defense are two different loads.

I dont really understand this... I figure if it will work on a bear it will work on just about anything ??

Im not sure what the best components are.
Im looking at Starline brass with Beartooth gascheck cast bullets and either Hodgdon Titegroup or H110 powder.

And thats all I know lol...

Is this the best mix of components for .454 ??
What should I use for primers ??

I want the best balance of accuracy/stopping power.

Im thinking of Beartooth 355 for defense and 340 for bear.

Also should I be using cast gascheck bullets or jacketed ??

I have about 3/4 of the equipment I need to start reloading but im not sure what im missing... but that will be another post.

BTW I live in Canada so some of the components may not be available out here.

Any help is greatly appreciated !!

Thanks !

A hard cast bullet is NOT what I would call a bear or home defense bullet.
You need a good expanding jacketed bullet, either a soft point or hollow point, but, personally I would go with a soft point for both.
I would also use the EXACT same load for both, then you can zero it and leave it 'as is' for whatever pops up.
The heavy end of the scale is probably the best choice, around 340gr should be ideal for both tasks.

A heavey for cailber hard cast WFN works great for bears. Go to the handgun hunting forum and lots of gunners swear by them for large tough game.

For home defense they might be a bit much for that I would prefer a good JHP of medium weight for cailber

Thanks that helps!
Who makes a good JHP for .454 ??
What should I use for a primer and should I go with Titegroup or H110 ??

Thanks again !

h110/win296 is best for heavy heavy loads

it will never be a 45/70... or 458 winmag

250gr xtp mags at 1000-1200fps is an excellent target and hunting load...

home defense? a pump shotgun is miles ahead, but the same load works,,,

Hornady makes magnum bullets for the casull. Small Magnum Rifle primers must be used. This cartridge must have a heavy crimp to keep the bullet from pulling out with each successive round being fired or else you will have a jammed cylinder. You must use a reliable recipe and follow it to the tee (every component) if you are going to load to maximum preasure which is 65,000 psi. Get comfortable reloading the 45 colt before moving up to the 454. There is little margine for error at 65,000 psi so most recipes are under 60,000 psi. H110 is only for near maximum and maximum loads it can not be used for reduced loadings. It needs high pressure for reliable ignition. Titegroup sounds like a 45 colt recipe.

Unless you want your home defense load to exit the perp and a wall or two, you DON'T want the bear load to be your home defense load.
For bear, heavy L-SWC bullet or flat-nose solid at max velocity.
For home defense, a 185-200gn JHP or 200gn L-SWC at 1200fps or so will do the job. Remember, the .45ACP, quite well known stopping people, uses an inefficient 230gn FMJ-RN bullet at about 850fps.
For lead, you need a bullet that is a tight snug fit in your cylinder's throats and is at least 0.001" over the barrel's groove diameter.
Also, reloading is very easy. Learning exactly what you want from you reloads will take a while.

quote:

Originally posted by noylj:
Unless you want your home defense load to exit the perp and a wall or two, you DON'T want the bear load to be your home defense load.
For bear, heavy L-SWC bullet or flat-nose solid at max velocity.
For home defense, a 185-200gn JHP or 200gn L-SWC at 1200fps or so will do the job. Remember, the .45ACP, quite well known stopping people, uses an inefficient 230gn FMJ-RN bullet at about 850fps.
For lead, you need a bullet that is a tight snug fit in your cylinder's throats and is at least 0.001" over the barrel's groove diameter.
Also, reloading is very easy. Learning exactly what you want from you reloads will take a while.

Ok I see, is this correct then. A 300gn LFN GC hard cast like Beartooth bullets is basically a heavy L-SWC and such bullets hold their shape, are usually high pressure and can overpenetrate. The penetration and large wound channel and ability to hold their shape makes L-SWC bullets better for large game.

A light L-SWC with lower pressure is less likely to over penetrate and can be used for home defense.

A FMJ penetrates less and tends to fragment more ?? Same sort of stopping power basically with less chance of shooting through the target ??

If the .45ACP is inefficient what makes it such a good people stopper, is it just the sheer mass of the bullet ??

Whats more accurate then an L-SWC or a FMJ and how does the pressure and speed affect the accuracy of these ??

If its a lead bullet for a .454 or .45 doesnt that mean the bullet is alreadyfit to the cylinder throat, or does that mean I will have to make adjustments somehow ??

What happens if it isnt snug fit to the cylinder throat, is it safe to shoot ??

Lastly with gascheck L-SWC I shouldnt have any leading problems or anything that would damage my gun ??

Please correct me if im wrong! im learning quite a bit here and thanks again for the replies !!

Wow so many questions in one post to keep up with. I will answer one.

As far as home or self defense I would and do not use reloads. With today's sue happy lawyers that gives them something to make you look like you wanted to shoot someone. Especially from a high powered handgun. Second that is not the gun I would use for personal defense to big and clumsy in my opinion but if you choose to use it I would get some .45 LC ammo that is designed to expand.

A FMJ bullet of any caliber will not fragment on flesh and bone and it will offer the most penetration because it deform very little. 45 ACP works so well because of good combination of weight , diameter and velocity.Quality components, quality guns and practice = accuracy/consistency. No one type of bullet is inherently accurate. Gas checks do not stop leading. You do not want lead to build up on the forcing cone and then fire 454 loads thrugh the gun. That would be bad. Bullets should be no larger than .452 if you are mixing 45 colt and 454 ammo. Lastly just use 45 colt loads on intruders.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackcat:
Sorry, this is another new to reloading post.
I have spend countless hours reading about reloading and I dont seem to be any closer to my goals. I live in the middle of nowhere and theres nobody to teach me how to reload either.

I really need some help with this and have A LOT of questions.

I have a Taurus .454 8 3/8 barrel
My goal is to make the best reloads possible for bear defense, personal/home defense and target shooting.

I will use mostly .45colt for my target loads.

Right now im just concentrating on the .454 loading for bear and defense.

Im told that bear defense and home defense are two different loads.

I dont really understand this... I figure if it will work on a bear it will work on just about anything ??

Im not sure what the best components are.
Im looking at Starline brass with Beartooth gascheck cast bullets and either Hodgdon Titegroup or H110 powder.

And thats all I know lol...

Is this the best mix of components for .454 ??
What should I use for primers ??

I want the best balance of accuracy/stopping power.

Im thinking of Beartooth 355 for defense and 340 for bear.

Also should I be using cast gascheck bullets or jacketed ??

I have about 3/4 of the equipment I need to start reloading but im not sure what im missing... but that will be another post.

BTW I live in Canada so some of the components may not be available out here.

Any help is greatly appreciated !!

Thanks !

Humans are comparable to thin-skinned game. Bears are thick-skinned game. Totally different terminal ballistics call for totally different bullets and velocities.

Winchester Silvertips are excellent for stopping people from doing things you want them to stop doing. They also do not penetrate through and through a relatively light-boned, thin-skinned target. They expend all their energy inside the target.

If you shoot a person all the way through a full-power 454 Casull, you will probably do less damage than if you hit the same person with a bullet that expands and expends all its energy in the primary target. Then, consider the 454 bullet expending its remaining energy through your walls and exterior walls and any innocent neighbors. This is why they invented frangible bullets and Glaser Safety Slugs.

Inside a bear, a thick-skinned, heavily muscled, big-boned creature, a hollowpoint like the silvertip is likely to create a shallow wound likely only to anger a bear.

To stop a bear, you need to break bone, not shred flesh. You can kill a bear but not stop him. A bear's heart beats slowly. You can instantly shred a bear's heart, but he will live on with the oxygen that is in his (now stopped) blood for long enough to totally eat your lunch.

You stop a bear by hitting the central nervous system. Brain or spine. You slow a bear down enough to outrun him by breaking a shoulder. Hard to do with anything less than 3,000 ft lbs of energy. That is 300 Win Mag territory. Around here, 45-70 and 12 Gauge shotguns are favored if you have the opportunity to carry a long gun. The shotguns are best filled with hard case slugs (like the Brenneke Black Magic).

If you want to practice hitting a bear's spine or penetrating his skull (remember an attacking bear will be looking at you, and his sloping forehead is THICK and bullets tend to slide off) try this; Set a soccer ball on a hill sloping towards yourself, about 15 meters away with a block of wood holding it. Have a friend shoot the block of wood out with a .22 (or pull it out with a string). When the ball gets 10 meters away from you draw and shoot the (now bouncing) ball before it reaches you. Extra points for hitting just the black spots.

Now, consider bear spray. It has a track record. In over 80 incidents in the Arctic in Alaska and Canada not one human using bear spray has sustained serious injury. Black Bears, Grizzly Bears and two Polar Bears. Firearms do not have that good a record.

Then, also consider that after you shoot a bear you have to report it to the authorities. I know of few ways to ruin a nice hike or fishing trip than to have to chase a wounded bear through the underbrush or report to the authorities and deal with the inevitable investigation. And after all that, you don't even get to keep the cape, as (in Alaska, and elsewhere, I am sure) the skill and hide belong to the government.

A sprayed bear is one that will likely be more wary of humans in the future, and that's a good thing.

When in the woods, I carry both a Ruger Super Redhawk 454 and bear spray. If only one, the spray. Really, though, the best bear defense is knowledge of bear behaviour and practising good woodscraft.

By the way, learning to load and target shooting with 45 Colt is a good idea and Trail Boss is a good powder to learn with. It is voluminous, which means you can easily see that you have charged a cartridge case, and it is very hard to double charge a case. Buy a bottle of TB and by the time you have used it up, you will have all the processes well rehearsed for full power Casull loads.

After shooting with 45 Colt, be sure to clean the chambers thoroughly, as the buildup of burnt powder and lube in the chambers in front of the (shorter) Colt case will gum up the chambering of the (longer) Casull case.

Lost Sheep

1. So, ya'll think a bullet that will kill a bear wouldn't work for home defense?

2. In the whole U.S.A. history of self defense with a gun, how many times have handloads resulted in a negative outcome for the one being assaulted?

3. Overpenetration? I love it. Some want their bullets to go clear through and others don't.

4. Per a bear guide I spoke with, the thing about bullets bouncing off a bear's skull is urban legend. I have not been in on killing around 100 bears like he has but according to him, a 22 LR bullet would penetrate a bear's skill just fine. Obviously, angle of impact is a factor, it would seem that just about any bullet in a 454 Casull should penetrate a bear's skull.

For components:

H110/296 and 2400 would be good powders and there are others but I won't complicate things.

Consider Hornady's 300 gr. hollow points for defense against bears and humans.

Cast bullets and jacketed bullets are two similar [but very different] things to work with! If your intention is to use cast bullets, my suggestion is to log on to the Cast Boolit web site and start reading. Join in and ask your questions over there. Personally I would learn to load and shoot jacketed bullets first and then, when I got proficient with those, I would expand to using cast. Have a great day.

Ok with all your help I have made a few choices and come up with some more questions.

Currently I shoot Hornady 45CAL .454 255gr FP cowboy loads as my .45 target round. I love the feel of this load and I want to try and make something similar for my light "target and defence" round.

Will these lead Hornady cowboy loads cause "leading" if I keep using them ??

My .454 rounds are also Hornady 300gr XTP MAG JHP.

Im a big guy and I actually feel little to no recoil with the 300gr XTP MAGs and no recoil with the .45's.

Heres what I have decided to go with...

For my .45 loads I will change the lead cowboy FN to either a Hornady XTP 250gr JHP or Winchester .45 colt 225gr JHP in Starline brass with Trailboss powder.

I might actually try a few of each and see how they feel.

For my .454 loads I am thinking of also copying the factory rounds with Hornady XTP MAG 300gr JHP in Starline brass with H110.

I think this is considered a high pressure .454
If I want to make a lower pressure .454 I think I need a different powder and bullet, any suggestions here ??

My final question is: I know I need small rifle primers for the .454 but what brand and type of primers should I use for both the .45 and the .454 loads ??

I will leave the cast bullets for another time!

Thank you for all your help so far!

Blackcat- Have a sneakin suspicion you have a good working knowledge of Canadian gun laws, so I,ll leave that one alone. I would suggest you call Beartooth and talk to Marshall, let him know what you have in mind, what questions you have, and you,ll probably get some good answers.. I,m gonna go ahead and say that two different objectives might call for two different actions. Not too many bear attacks where theres people behind the bear thats charging, so the sole objective in this case is survival, preferably with all the parts ya started with, unperforated. Heavy for caliber chunk of lead, or brass, such as a Belt Mountain, etc. I would look for mass,momentum, and penetration. As has been said already, instant CNS disruption, broken bones, if nothing else, slow the bugger down a bit, get a bit of room to back peddle,reload, hopefully give the bear a little extra time to limp off and die. No guarantees.. A speed loader would be a mighty handy accessory to have. Consider the idea off practing shooting from one knee. Bears have a certain amount of...pep in their step. A bit of bounce when they pounce. For home defence rounds, personally,since you,re already using XTPs, and I would favour a good hollow point, I would stick with those. Thinner critter, quicker expansion, more trauma delivered per round. Less (compared to a hard cast/solid bullet) penetration, which for me, becomes a desireable attribute, with neighbors on all sides.. Favour a .44 myself, for a bear load, 310 grain WFN lead bullets, doin aroun 1100 fps. For home defense, hate to say it, but theres a .38 with factory hollow points, and a .357 with XTPs under the night stand. Course, theres also a .44 with 240 grain,hot rod .44 special 'Teddy Bear' loads on Ma Bears side a the bed, Just in case...

quote:

Originally posted by Muttly:
Blackcat- Have a sneakin suspicion you have a good working knowledge of Canadian gun laws,so ill leave that one alone

LMAO I have no idea what you mean by that

I do have a pretty good idea of the laws even if I dont always follow "strictly" to the letter.
Where I live is around a good 45 minutes drive at top speed to get to any signs of life. The only neighbor lives several miles/kilometers from me and he doesnt much worry about it.
I walk 5 minutes in any direction and im lost in wilderness and I have a couple of grizzlies that live right on my property. My family has had a few run ins with them. Im not too worried though mind you, we know that for the most part if you leave them alone they leave you alone. Still most people in this area say your crazy to go out without some sort of bear gun. Most around here tend to carry revolvers, its easier than carrying a shotgun when tending to cattle and the police dont come out this far to check.
Also we can travel all over the countryside and never leave our own property so technically no law breaking.
I like your advice for the bear loads and im going to check out these Belt mountain coppers you mentioned. Like I said im not to worried about bear so ill leave those rounds till ive had some practice but I would like to work up a good bear load at some point just in case. BTW im not far from Alaska ! nice place, I was thinking of doing another trip out that way one of these days.

I recovered some of the links I lost a few weeks ago when my computer crashed. They make worthwhile reading.

See the post by windwalker, about 2/3 of the way down the page. He lives in Montana and has extensive experience living in close proximity to Grizzly Bears.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpB...storder=asc&start=60

http://www.adn.com/bearattacks/story/147318.html 4/18/08 Anchorage Daily News

Of course, Greg Bush had experience that is an exception that keeps the decision-making debatable.
http://www.peninsulaclarion.co.../out_478669517.shtml

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska...rs/story/897940.html

and for a direct quote from the surviving party with pictures

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/i.../topic,179994.0.html

Ninety-eight percent of the time, bear spray works optimally, biologist Tom Smith has concluded. In a paper published in "The Journal of Wildlife Management," Smith -- along with co-authors Stephen Herrero, Terry Debruyn and James Wilder -- indicates bear spray might be better than a firearm for protecting yourself against the rare attack.

Bear spray is cheaper. It doesn't require much shooting skill. And in none of the 83 cases the scientists examined was a bear-spray user seriously injured.

"All bear-inflicted injures associated with defensive spraying involved brown bears and were relatively minor," they reported.

Smith noted this has not been the case with firearms, the other main means of self-protection. Wounded bears sometimes turn on people, seriously mauling or killing them.

Bear spray has been used in Alaska more than 20 years, and no similar attacks against those using spray in self-defense have been reported.

In the study for the Wildlife Management journal, scientists examined 83 bear-spray incidents from 1985 to 2006 involving 61 grizzly bears, 20 black bears and two polar bears.

"Ninety-eight percent were uninjured by bears in close-range encounters," they concluded. The few that were injured suffered minor wounds.

Clearly, Smith said, the stuff works.

Now a professor of wildlife science at Brigham Young University, Smith spent years working in Alaska as a bear biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey and still owns a cabin on the Kenai Peninsula's Skilak Lake, where he regularly retreats on vacation.

His co-authors are widely recognized authorities on bears.

Herrero, now at the University of Calgary in Alberta, authored "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance," now considered the essential handbook for people wanting to learn about bears. DeBruyn heads up bear research for the National Park Service in Alaska. Wilder now works for the National Marine Fisheries Service.

Collectively, they represent a storehouse of knowledge about bears, and they gave pepper spray a clear endorsement.

"Bear spray represents an effective alternative to lethal force," they wrote.

And Smith notes there have been problems with bear spray in the wind, although its biggest drawback may be the one-shot limit. Once used, Counter-Assault cannot be reloaded.

As for the wind, Smith reported that in "7 percent of bear spray incidents, wind was reported to have interfered with spray accuracy, although it reached bears in every case."

First developed in the 1960s as a means to ward off aggressive dogs, red-pepper spray is noxious stuff that leads to painfully swollen eyes and nasal passages. Ramm, who has experienced tear gas, called pepper spray far worse.

"Bear spray diffuses potentially dangerous situations in the short term by providing the user time to move out of harm's way and allowing the bear time to reassess the situation and move on," Smith wrote. "When food or garbage is involved, bear spray is effective initially, but one can expect bears to (return) until these attractants are removed."

But bear spray is not quite perfect. Smith notes some problems:

• Spray residue (after some time to lose potency) has been found to attract brown bears rather than repel them. Someone who sprays a bear in a camping area could inadvertently turn the campground into a bear-baiting station.

• Smith suggests weighing canisters and discarding any less than 90 percent of their original weight and dumping any past their expiration date.

Even if you are hunting with a bear-appropriate round like a 338 Winchester Magnumthe rifle will not always be in your hands or even within arm's reach at all times. Especially when dressing a kill. (Some people believe a gunshot is like a dinner bell to scavenging-savvy bears.)

Does your hunting partner stand watch with a heavy rifle or 12-gauge with slugs (Brenneke, Black Magic, etc.) at the ready while you are dressing your kill? If not, both of you keeping bear spray on your belts at all times is cheap insurance. $30 to $50 per 10 oz cannister of pepper or UDAP spray.

Use what you like and can accurately hit with Just don't limit your choices.

Good luck

Lost Sheep.

Blackcat,

Between cast lead and the MUCH more expensive jacketed bullets, there are copper plated bullets. Use loading data for lead and don't crimp them deeply (the plating is thin and if your crimp cuts through it, you can peel the copper plating off, I am told).

Lead bullets with gas checks also lead much less than those without gas checks.

Different alloys of lead (harder, and with higher melting temperatures) bullets produce less leading than others.

The lubrication used on the lead bullets can make a big difference, too.

There is a bulletmaker in Anchorage here who makes hard cast lead bullets especially for high-powered revolvers (in addition to his regular line of bullets). Some of them are made specifically for bear protection and hunting (including his famous "Tyrannosaurus Thumper", a 700 grain bullet for the 500 S&W).

Don't stay away from lead just because of the possibility of leading in your barrel. Copper fouling is harder to remove, neither is all that difficult and leading is fairly easy to prevent.

Don't neglect the recoil ports in your barrel.

Lost Sheep

quote:

Don't neglect the recoil ports in your barrel.

Lost Sheep

I never thought of those... how do I clean those small port holes ??

Black&Decker small port hole cleaner.

Right on thanks !

quote:

Originally posted by Blackcat:
Right on thanks !

One interesting thread on bullets is this one.

http://forums.outdoorsdirector...193-Is-it-reely-true

I have never heard of a Black & Decker port hole cleaner. That doesn't mean Muttley isn't pulling your leg, but I just mentioned the ports because if you use lead bullets, lead can get scraped off into the ports, eventually they can lose their effectiveness.

Remember, believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for stuff you get from the internet. Verify everything you get from casual sources.

Lost Sheep.

It's been a while since I posted this. I composed it a couple of years ago and have been editing it ever since.

10 Advices for the Novice Handloader

My perspective is that of a handgun reloader, but I tried my best to make this universal, at least for metallic cartridges for handguns and rifles. Shotgunners, sorry, very little applies beyond the broadest generatlities.

When I first started (with a single stage press) I could produce about 50 per hour. I recommend doing things one process at a time. Multiple operations at a time are too complex for me to keep track of. My due care kept me moving too slowly. I used progressives for a while, but but finally have settle on a Lee Classic Turret as my preferred machine. Others may choose differently, but this one suits my style and temperament. I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universal. So much is a matter of personal taste and circumstance, though. So, all advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary".

Bonus advice: Advice zero, if you will, "Why load?"

At the same time as I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly. However, most shooters will not realize any savings at all. Instead of shooting for 1/4 the ammo cost, you will shoot four times as much for the same cost.

Eventually, however, handloading can be more than a means to an end (money savings or increased accuracy). It became a satisfying satisfying pastime in itself.

The pride of punching tiny groups in paper or harvesting game with anmmunition you created yourself is great. The independence to create your own designer bullets (velocity you choose, bullet shape you select, recoil you adjust to your purpose – teaching someone to shoot a 44 magnum is much easier if you can start them off with soft-shooting loads, for example). Independence - priceless.

Now, here are my Ten Advices.

Advice #1 Use Reliable Reference Sources Wisely –
Books, Videos, Web Sites, etc. Study up in loading manuals until you understand the process well, before spending a lot of money on equipment. I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Short on loading data but full of knowledge and understanding of the process. Check out offerings in your local library. Dated, perhaps but the basics are pretty unchanging. Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well.

As far as load data in older manuals, the powder manufacturers and bullet manufacturers may have better information and their web sites are probably more up to date. But pay attention to what the ammunition was test-fired from. (regular firearm vs a sealed-breech pressure test barrel, for example) The reason you want more than one or two manuals is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. You also get better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others. The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy. There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started. Richard Lee's book "Modern Reloading" has a lot of food for thought, and does discuss the reasoning behind his opinions (unlike many manuals, and postings). Whether right or wrong, the issues merit thought, which that book initiates. It is not a simple book, though and you will find it provocative reading for many years. Only after you know the steps can you look at the contents of of a dealer's shelves, a reloading kit or a mail-order catalog and know what equipment you want to buy. If you are considering a loading kit, you will be in a better position to know what parts you don't need and what parts the kits lack.

Advice #2 All equipment is good. But is it good FOR YOU?
Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive but not so durable (e.g. abrasion resistant) as cast iron. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Just think about what you buy. Ask around. Testimonials are nice. But if you thing Ford/Chevrolet owners have brand loyalty, you have not met handloaders. Testimonials with reasoning behind them are better. Better equipment costs more generally, and better customer service also translates to higher prices, usually. But there are exceptions. Lee Precision is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker, but some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes. (e.g. their hand primer)

Be aware that many handloaders don't use brand names, prefering themanufacturer's chosen color, instead. RCBS equipment is almost all green; Dillon, blue; Lee, red. Almost no manufacturers cross color line, so many handloaders simply identify themselves as "Blue" or whatever. But this is not 100%. I have a Lee Powder Scale that is green. On Kits: Almost every manufacturer (and retailer) makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except consumables). A kit is decent way to get started (with less puzzling over unknowable questions). Eventually most people wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as theirpersonal taste develops, but you will have gotten started, at least. Assembling your own kit takes more effort, but yields a good bit of knowledge as well as the equipment.

Advice #3 While Learning, don't get fancy.
Progressive or Single Stage? Experimental loads? While you are learning, load mid-range at first so overpressures are not concerns. Just concentrate on getting the loading steps right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, seating depth, primer seating force, all that). Use a "fluffy" powder, that is, one that will overflow your cartridge case if you mistakenly put two powder charges in it, and is easy to verify that you have not missed charging a case with powder.

Some definitions are in order at this point: Press types: Single Stage, Turret and Progressive. Single stage press mounts one die at a time and performs one operation at a time. A turret press mounts multiple dies in separate stations, but still only performs one operation at a time on only one cartrdige at a time. A progressive press mounts several time dies in separate stations and performes multiple operations simultaneously. The single stage is best suited to batch processing. Take a batch of cases (ususally 20 or 50 or 100) and do step #1 to each case in the batch, then swap dies and do step #2 to each case, swap dies and so forth. A progressive is best suited to continuous processing. Take a batch of cases and feed them into the press. Each stroke of the operating handle performs all the steps (#1, #2, #3, etc) simultaneously on a number of cases, producing one round per stroke of the handle. A turret press can operate in batch mode as if it were a single stage, or continuous mode (by leaving one case in the press and performing all the steps, in continuous sequence on that one case, before moving on to the next case in the batch). That makes it LIKE a progressive because you take each cartridge from empty cast to finished round before moving on to the next cartridge (continuous processing). But it still only does one step at a time and takes multple strokes of the handle to produce each finished cartridge. In other words, a turret press is essentially a single stage press with a moveable head mounting several dies at the same time. What makes it like a single stage rather than a progressive is that you are still using only one die at a time, not three or four dies simultaneously at each stroke.

Whether you are learning on a single stage press, a turret press or a progressive press, perform only one step at a time during the learning process. It is too easy to miss something important when many things happen at the same time and are thus are hard to keep track of. Mistakes DO happen and you want to watch for them ONE AT A TIME until handloading becomes second nature to you. You can learn on a progressive, but it is easier to make mistakes during the learning process. Most reloaders recommend against starting to learn to load with a progressive. Many recommend a single stage. Also, a good, strong, single stage press is in the stable of every reloader I know, no matter how many progressives they have. They always keep at least one single-stage.

Advice #4 Find a mentor.
There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technigue BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead")

I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. I educated myself after that. But now, on the internet, I have learned a WHOLE LOT MORE. But in-person is still the best.

After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community.

Advice #5 Design your loading space for safety, efficiency, cleanliness
When I started reloading, I did not use a loading bench at all. I just mounted the
press on a 2" x 6" plank long enough to wedge into the drawer of an end table My loading gear all fit in a footlocker and spread out on a coffeetable, end table and/or the lid of the footlocker. Good leverage meant the table did not lift or rock. I still use the same plank, but now it is mounted in a portable folding workbench. A loading bench "bolted to the center of the earth" (as some describe their setups) would be more stable, but I do not feel deprived without it. You will probably spill powder or drop a primer eventually, so consider what you have for a floor covering when you pick your reloading room/workspace. I would not try to vacuum up spilt gunpowder unless using a Rainbow vacuum which uses water as the filter medium. A dropcloth is a good idea. Cloth, not plastic.

Advice #6 Keep Current on loading technology
Always use a CURRENT loading manual. Powder chemistry has changed over the years. They make some powders differently than they used to and even some powder names may have changed. However, if you are using 10 year old powder, you may want to check a 10 year old manual for the recipe. Then double check with a modern manual and then triple check with the powder maker. Exception: "The ABC's of Reloading", an excellent tome on the general processes of reloading is timeless. Any edition in the past 40 years is good. Check your local library where you could read several for free.

Read several forums on reloading; here some I read.
TheFiringLine.com :: Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting forums.accuratereloading.com/eve :: THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS RugerForum.com :: View Forum - Factory Ammunition and Reloading RugerForum.net
:: (there are some VERY EXPERT guys on this one,
including the illustrious Iowegan.)
TheHighRoad.org

Let me share with you some posts and threads I think you will enjoy. So get a large mug of coffee, tea, hot chocolate, whatever you keep on hand when you read and think. Then read through these. Don't read just my posts. These threads in their entirety will be useful to you. Like manuals, which have many different authors and different writing styles and emphasis different aspects of loading, the different authors of the posts in these threads will give a wide variety of viewpoints with different styles. Some writers may "speak" to you better than others.

The "sticky" thread at the top of TheFiringLine's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST " thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

The "sticky" thread at the top of TheHighRoad.com's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Thinking about Reloading;
Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST"
thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=238214

The first draft of my "10 Advices..." is on page 2 of this thread, about halfway down.
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543

Most Recent Draft of "10 Advices for the Novice Handloader"
thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7672653

rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=22344

My thread, "Budget Beginning bench you will never outgrow for the novice handloader" was informed by my recent (July 2010) repopulation of my loading bench.
It is what I would have done 35 years ago if I had known then what I know now.
rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-budget-beginning-bench-you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html

I have a thread "To Kit or Not to Kit?" that describes different philosophies of buying or assembling a kit one piece at a time.
rugerforum.net/reloading/33660-kit-not-kit.html

rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543

Minimalist minimal (the seventh post down)
rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332

Thread entitled "Newby needs help."
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391

My post 11 is entitled "Here's my reloading setup, which I think you might want to model" November 21, 2010)
Thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439810

thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448410 scale choice

Advice #7 You never regret buying the best (but once) When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy too cheaply it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without overpaying.

Put one way: "The bitter taste of cheap equipment lingers long after the sweetness of bargain pricing wears off." Another way, "The sweetness of quality gear lasts much longer than the pain of the price paid."

Advice #8 Tungsten Carbide dies (or Titanium Nitride) T-C dies instead of regular tool steel (which require lubrication for sizing your brass) for your straight-walled cartridge cases. T-C dies do not require lubrication, which will save you time. For your rifles' bottlenecked cases, a carbide expander button avoids the need for lube on the inside of the cases.

Advice #9 Safety Always Safety All Ways.Wear eye protection, especially when working with primers. Gloves are good, too, especially if using the Lee "Hammer" Tools. Children (unless they are good helpers, not just playing around) are at risk and are a risk. Pets, too unless they have been vetted (no, not that kind of vetting). Avoid anything that might distract you (e.g. cause a no charge or a double charge, equally disturbing). Imagine everything that CAN go wrong. Then imagine everything that you CAN'T imagine.

I could go on, but it's your eyes, your fingers, your house, your children. Enough said?

Advice #10 Remember, verify for yourself everything you learn from casual sources. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly. I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and frequently hit "7" instead of "4" because they are next to each other on the keypad.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep

Muttly had ,ideed, taken some liberties with the posting of the alleged Black&Decker small port hole cleaner, and deeply regretted the hasty posting of said imaginary, but handy to have small tool..
That being said, Lost Sheep is right on the money, especialy, and for me this was absolutely invaluable, the part about finding a mentor!.
Some cat that,s been reloading for a while, and has,nt lost any extra fingers or toes in the process.. Or bulged the same barrel twice.. What,s that saying, there,s old pilots, and there,s bold pilots, but there,s no old bold pilots?..
Aye. No B&D small port hole cleaner, some times I run my mouth before my brain thinks to stop it. One other thing,that worked well for me, mostly repeating something Lost Sheep said. I,ve been impressed with the quality, and the consistency of the Starline brass, and some of the other brands in rifle brands. A few others, I,ve experimented with, and have decided not to move forward with. But for myself, I needed to start with,and stay with, at least initially, one caliber, one brand of brass, one type of primer. Start at the starting loads, establish a baseline. Cut down on the variables. Which let me get a feel for what I was doing. And see for myself what effects, if any, were had by a slight increase in charge weight, or changing powders. Took a lot of baby steps, and asked a LOT of questions.
Went from buying a rifle I could,nt get ammo for, planning to get a little Lee hand held press so I could make up 20 rounds to see what it was like to shoot the beastie, to...well, taking over the better part of one small room, quite a few different calibers, an obsession all it,s own.

Welcome aboard! Don,t know about distributors in Canada, but I did have Graf and Sons send a reloading kit to one of my brothers who lives in Saskatewan. Last I checked, Midway did,nt actually have an importer, and did,nt ship directly across the border. That may have changed. Anyhoo, reckon you,re finding pieces, just a matter of putting em together.

No worries muttly its all good. Its the internet, I often say stuff I kick myself for later too. A mentor is a good idea but I live so far into the boonys I cant find one. Thats why im doing most of my research online. It giving me an ulcer im sure lol theres so many opinions and so much info I find it hard to tell whats what.
How do I find the correct load info... do I ask the powder manufacturer or the bullet manufacturer ?? and the same for pressures... I find a lot of conflicting info and guesses about pressures how do I find the right info... I just want to get this right and not blow up my hand.
I think im on the right track... and I will start with the .45 loads before the .454.
Lots of good info from lost sheep!
Im not starting from kit because I was given lots of parts for free.

- I have an RCBS single stage press
- RCBS lube and pad
- Bullet breaker
- RCBS powder measure
- Bar scale
- Digital caliper
- Flashhole cleaner

And several random sets of dies.

Im going to get a cleaning deburring tool
Some more dies and seater plates
A lee crimp die to get a good crimp on the .454 loads
Tumbler and tumbler media

Im not sure what else I need.

Btw whats better Winchester primers or Federal ??

Could,nt tell ya on the Winchester or Federal primers, I started priming as a seperate part of the process using a Lee hand held priming tool. all I,ve used have been CCI primers.

Starting out, I tried to seperate the process into individual steps. With virgin brass, size, trim if neccessary, chamfer and deburr. Then prime, charge the case, seat the bullet, crimp as a seperate step. But I,m getting ahead of myself. Lemme start over.

One way or another, most of us,when we start out, are basically following a recipe, trying to get the results we want. I,m going to suggest rounding up a couple reloading manuals. And the Hornady reloading video. Lets ya actualy see the reloading process, as its happening. And, its entertaining, in a weird sorta way.
Hogdon reloading manual, in magzine form, runs about 9-10 bucks, handy to have, lot of load data in a compact package, all Hogdon powders.
Since you mentioned XTPs, the Hornady reloading manual would be a good place to start. As you can, does,nt hurt to round up more manuals, Nosler, Barnes,Lee, etc. Lets you cross reference loads. If three manuals are showing one powder as meeting the parameters you are looking for, be a good place to start.

When I started researching this whole idea of reloading, did a lot of snooping around on the net, watching videos of the process to get an idea of whats involved. The reason I reccomend the manuals, as opposed to getting data online, is, living in the land of the lawsuit, the folks who print reloading manuals, by default, pretty much have to put their money where there mouth is. So to speak..

Can,t help thinking of the Smithers, Houston neck of the woods.Used to do a Seatle run, it was always one of the little goals, coming down the Cassiar, try to get from Whitehorse to Smithers. Depending on the weather, that was sometimes a long day. Seem to remember one stretch , few hours north of Kitwanga, wanna say around Bell 2, goin through at dusk. Bears every where.
Yah. Fun little hobby. Handloader magazine. Also good.

quote:

Can,t help thinking of the Smithers, Houston neck of the woods.Used to do a Seatle run, it was always one of the little goals, coming down the Cassiar, try to get from Whitehorse to Smithers. Depending on the weather, that was sometimes a long day. Seem to remember one stretch , few hours north of Kitwanga, wanna say around Bell 2, goin through at dusk. Bears every where.
Yah. Fun little hobby. Handloader magazine. Also good.

Funny you should mention that area, I know it well. I was recently thinking about how many bears there are in that area especially around dusk!