I have a pound of Red dot which appears to be a very fluffy flakey powder. I've a bunch of 405 gr lead bullets, WLR primers, and some old brass.

I plan on loading down from the Universal load of 13 gr of Red Dot to maybe 2 gr, if I can get it that low.

If I can get it to fire sucessfully at the low powder levels it should be a fun plinking load, and I may even be able to get my wife to try the ole thumper.

The rifle is a Marlin 1895 with the 22" barrel.

Any thoughts or anything I may be missing here?

Thanks!

If they are lead bullets or light alloy you will need at least 13,000 PSI of chamber pressure for proper obduration of the bullet. Multiply BHN by 1,422 to get minimum chamber pressure for proper obduration of the bullet to prevent gas cutting.

So.. How would I calculate the chamber pressure?

Take it from an old RED DOT loader- find a published load or don't f*** around with it. RED DOT is a great powder but you can get in trouble wit it if you don'e watch out. I use it for .45 ACP and Colt loads in the range of 7 grains and it works great, maybe a little dirty. But lots of bang. It may be Fluffy and all but it is a med fast powder and does need some pressure to burn properlt.

Just my Humble opinion, its your eyes, hands and gun.
Judge Sharpe.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeSharpe:
Take it from an old RED DOT loader- find a published load or don't f*** around with it.

I'm gonna have to agree with the Judge. I've never seen a published load using Red Dot in the 45=70.

Use that Red Dot in something like a 44 Special handgun. It is far better as a pistol powder than for use in this huge case.

If you want to shoot a good load with a 405 L in a 45/70, I have been using 27.5 grains AA5744 with a 405 LRN, R-P cases, WLR. My velocities are 1323 fps.

This powder just works great with cast bullets. The SD's and ES's are quite reasonable.

Unique is a much better powder for cast in the .45-70. Alliant even has published data or was it Lyman?

I use 14 grains with a 400 grain LBT in my Marlin CB. great shhoting load. Use it mostly for cast bullet silhouette matches.

RedDot isn't "fluffy" enough for my use in a 45-70. I have used 10gr of Unique, a Dacron wad & 300gr lead bullet for 900fps plinking loads, very accurate, even out to 100yds.

!! SUPER DANGEROUS, MR. CLEMENT !!

I've used it with success in a case bigger than .45-70, no filler, about 300 rounds so far.

After charging I visually inspect the powder levels then weigh each primed, charged case.

After seating bullets I weigh each loaded round.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

AA 5744 has performed well for me but I will not use it anymore because of the unburned granules it leaves in the case and bore. I don't think I have much use for reduced loads but if I try them again I will use SR4759 or H4227 for my caliber.

!! EDITED DUE TO INHERENT DANGER !!

I trust the above safety precautions because I know what my cases weigh and average weight of the primers I use.

Here is what I did at first:


1. Prep and prime cases

2. Weigh each primed case and write the weight on the case

3. Visually inspect the inside of cases

4. Charge all cases

5. Visually inspect powder levels

6. Weigh each primed, charged case

7. Visually inspect inside of cases

8. Seat all bullets

9. Add weight of bullet + charge weight and write on a piece of paper

10. Put the paper and a pocket calculator beside your scale

11. Place a loaded round on the scale, add the number on the case to the number on the paper, the sum on the calculator should match the weight displayed on the scale.

12. Test fire via lanyard

!! IT IS VERY EASY TO DOUBLE CHARGE A CASE !!

!! KA-BOOM !!

NOTE: I think I'll delete this post in a day or two, it's just too darn dangerous.

!! EDITED IT'S VERY EASY TO TRIPLE CHARGE A CASE !!

Also, if you try to download you will not get an effective neck seal and gas will blow past the case and out of the back of the action, right into your eye and face.

A modern gun might survive a double charge of RED DOT but not a TRIPLE charge.

quote:

Originally posted by Clement

I plan on loading down from the Universal load of 13 gr of Red Dot to maybe 2 gr, if I can get it that low.

Hey Clement,

I could be wrong, but I think the "universal load" you refer to pertains to Unique, not Red Dot. Other than being able to say I can and I did, I see no reason whatsoever to use Red Dot in the 45-70. Use it in your hangun loads.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the .45/70 case just like the .45 LC only a little longer?

Fast powders like Unique as well as the slower handgun powders like Blue Dot work well with the .45 LC, I shoot reduced loads with fast powders for the 9,3x74 R, the 8x75 RS, the .338 WM and others, all worked well to a certain degree. Regading this Red Dot project of your I'd just run the data through QuickLoad and give it a try.

If you avoid a double load (this is in fact a risk you better avoid), what could go wrong?

The .45-70 case is considerably longer than and has twice the volume of the the 45LC, 4.06cc vs 1.93cc.

My plinking load is 12gr of Unique and cast bullets from 340 to 420gr. Very easy to shoot for the wife. I personally don't use a filler with. Just raise the muzzle up and set it down and shoot.

There is an article by CE Harris in the Handloader's Digest Twelfth Edition , "The Load or What you can do with 13 grains of Red Dot." I have been using this load for a number of years now using about 12 pounds of it total. I've loaded and shot 45-70, 30-06, 375 Mag, 416 mag with both cast bullets as well as jacketed. I kicked the 45-70 up to 14 grains of Red dot with a 350 cast bullet to around 1400FPS out of my 1885 Browing Single shot and I use 16 grains of Red dot in my 375 H&H Ruger No. 1 with 280 cast and jacketed, and also 16 grains with 350 cast in my 416 RM, all without any fillers. They fill up around half the case and if you accidently drop a double charge, you can see the difference immediately by visual inspection and then can dump it out and recharge the case. They are all pussycats in the recoil dept with those loads, but very accurate (2" and less at 100 yds)and make great inexpensive plinking loads. I wouldn't recommend going any lower in the charge weights.

Pat

Some interesting replies.

Thanks DUK, Mark, and gumfighter.

I've loaded up some 13 grain loads with 405 gr cast, but haven't had time to get to the range. Maybe next weekend.

quote:

Originally posted by Clement:
So.. How would I calculate the chamber pressure?

Hey Clement, Here is a way to measure CHE & PRE which will allow you to decide if the Loads you are using are really SAFE or not.

Best of luck to you.