Had a friend call me last week and ask if I could reload 257 Roberts ammo with 100 gr bullets for a friend of his who I don't know. I declined due to the liability issues and due to what I've learned here on the forum. I've looked in all my publications and on the net trying to find commercial 100 gr 257 ammo and haven't found any. Does anyone know if any company loads this? Any help appreciated.

I belive the big 3 all load 257 roberts. Do some more checking.

Let the friend select the load to be used from a manfactures manual (not a load he read about somewhere).
Instruct him in the operation of the equipment.
Set-up/adjust the equipment for him (scale, powder measure, dies, etc).
Have him verify the settings.
While he runs the equpment, you observe and provide further instructions to him as he works.
You double check and inspect everything that he does, especaly those things related to the powder charge.

I think Tailgunners got the right idea here. The guy gets his ammo and learns something in the process and your off the hook.

Let him load it under strict supervison.

I've often wondered how much a signed disclaimer would weigh in a court. I turn down people that ask me to reload for them as well, but recently had a coworker ask me to do some handload development for him. I'd like to help the guy out, but I'm human and know a mistake could happen. I've pondered drawing up a letter stating the risks involved, and claiming no responsibility for error - signed by both parties. I just don't know how it much weight it holds if push would ever come to shove.

The other issue is if you charge the person for the loads. Then you legally need a manufacturing license! Best to load for people you know and trust and yourself.

Bob257

Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of a liability claim against an individual who handloaded ammunition for another individual?

I've actually never heard of one. If this is the case and there are none, then the actuarial risk of such activity would be, by definition, approaching zero.

How about it? Anybody actually know of such a case -- not just "read" about it somewhere or heard it from a friend of a friend, but have actual, first hand knowledge?

[ 10-29-2003, 19:14: Message edited by: Stonecreek ]

I've been known to load the occasional batch for friends.

Not acquaintances, not associates, just for FRIENDS.

close friends, responsible friends.. mebbe...

DO you let other people shoot your guns and loads?

for a third party, never.

can't charge, or it's a weapons charge felony, by the atf, if you don't have a lic.

jeffe

no way..................
woofer

I've doen this for a few friends over the years. I have them bring me the rifle and select the components, and then I'll work up a load in their rifle that works. Load up a supply for them, and away they go. Some of them even want to help (hint, hint). - Dan

Thanks guys, I found 117 gr loads but no 100 gr. Anyone know of a custom reloader who would do this?

Isn't any way on this green earth I will load for some one else even friends. I also will not watch over some one useing my equipment. I would be responcable because I let him use my equipment. If they want to use reloads then buy the equipment and books and do it. If you are starting out and wish me to look over what you think might be a starting load for your appclation I might be so inclined. But in todays sue happy world I am making up most effort to stay out of that mess.
My dollar three eighty two.
Al

Gentlemen;

In today's litigious society, it doesn't matter ONE THIN DAMN if nobody can cite a case where someone was sued about his handloads.

Who ever heard of suing over a cup of coffee, and winning millions because it was HOT??? There are legions of what SEEM to be incredibly stupid acts which get rewarded with big bucks in court. Precedents are meaningless in this field.

Another issue in loading for "friends".... if you give him some handloads and his rifle subsequently comes apart with SOMEONE ELSE'S handloads, NOT yours, how do you prove it wasn't your mistake that killed or maimed him? Answer: you can't. Also, this fellow may be your dearest bosom-buddy blood brother, but if he dies....I'd bet his widow's lawyer won't be your pal.

Teach him to handload, by all means, but if it's not sufficiently important to him to learn how, then it's CERTAINLY not important enough for you to put your entire future at risk to do a ten-dollar favor.

Many brand-new handloaders, as soon as they get a grasp on the fundamentals, seem to think they are the newborn Johnny Appleseed of ammunition, and they set forth to spread glad tidings and cheap ammo amongst their friends, and THEIR friends too.

Don't do it, guys; it isn't worth the huge liability exposure.

Regards from BruceB (aka Bren Mk1

I agree that reloading for someone, especially a 3rd party, is a risky proposition. But the suggestion of letting a close friend use equipment is an excellent one. That's how I got my start in reloading. A much older and wiser friend from the local range invited to start reloading at his place. I used my once-fired factory cases, bought the dies and bullets from a shop. The rest I bought from him at cost. I've steadily bought more and more of my own components as I go.

He taught me the basics by showing me the steps a few times, then letting me go on my own. I'm still reloading with him because in my current living situation there's no room for my own setup.

It's really very similar to introducing kids to shooting sports. It is the best way to ensure they'll grow up with a healthy attitude and respect fo firearms. Same for reloading, if it wasn't for him I'd probably only shoot a tenth of the volume I'm shooting now.

Of course it's up to every individual to decide if another person is with it enough to be trusted with one's equipment and such. I'm extremely grateful to this guy for introducing me to reloading and letting me use his equipment. I hope others follow his example.

I've done this a couple of times for one of my friends (perhaps the only one who doesn't reload! ) Not anymore - all he does is blame me for his off-days shooting. "Your reloads don't work as well as factory ammo." So I don't do it anymore and let him come up with other excuses as to why he can't shoot half-inch groups after not shooting a single round for a year or more.....

[ 10-30-2003, 01:11: Message edited by: Calif Hunter ]

Superior Ammunition will load the 100 grainers for you but if your friend's friend wants "cheap" don't bother.

Well I am going to be kicked a bit for this but I do let others shoot my guns and reloads. In fact one of my friends ,who owns no guns of his own yet, has almost only shot my reloads in my guns. I figure if they are safe enough for me they are safe enough for others. I do not purport to be more skilled than anyone else and I tell people that I am shooting reloads.

Having said that I would never reload for someone else. I will let them use my press with my help. I will not take any money for that priviledge and I would never reload for a third party. I am also not one to shoot other peoples reloads, but have done so with they guy who taught me to reload.

I understand the fear of legal action, but at some point you just have to live as best you can all risks weighted and included.

[ 10-30-2003, 00:57: Message edited by: Dave In LB ]

Thanks Tigertate, that's what I was looking for. Any others?

Sorry guys, I simply can't see taking the risk of reloading for others in this society in which we live. They don't call the U.S. "The land of the Lawsuit" for nothing. Most of the shooters at the range I frequent are handloaders. There have been a couple of accident there this year, fortunately rather minor, but it could be much worse. I've been reloading for 35 years, have an excellent grasp of the components and techniques, but still make the odd mistake. I'd hate to think I've worked all my life only to see my retirement funds vanish in a lawsuit. It's not very fair to my family. Sorry to seem so adamant about this, but the possibilities are nightmarish at best. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I look at reloading as something, that is tailored exactly for "each rifle". My dad and i both shoot .270's I am the one that reloads, he had crappy old factory shells that where 50 years old. I am sure he prolly wondered why i didn't offer up some of my loads with modern high tech bullets ie hornaday interbonds. But to be honest I don't feel comfy with this, my loads are set up for my gun. No if he wants to loan me his rifle for a bit, I would work up some loads and do some shooting myself with his rifle and come up with a recipe for him, that is the only way I would ever do it, and this is my dad we are talking about. Also my father in law. whose equipment I use, doesn't have a .270 any more so, he said oh here are some ones I loaded up why don't you take um. I didn't want to make him feel bad so I said ok, well guess what even though I am pretty sure what his recipe for these where, as soon as I get a chance I will be pulling the bullets and dumping the powder to and then reusing the brass. When I first started doing this I blew a primer cause I didn't really know what I was doing, This woke me up right now, I read and learned all I could in fact I am still learning, this kind of thing is not something to play around with or take any less than totally serious

I load for my son and brother only. Both have found out that it is a process that takes time. I do not load generic ammo, only custom loads for specific rifles. "We" start by selecting components, measuring, preparing, assembling, testing, and final selection of an accurate cartridge that will perform. After this process both have knowledge of loading procedures and have a good idea of the answer if either was to ask me to load for a friend. NO!

Okay, so nobody has any actual knowledge of a liability claim or lawsuit over one individual providing handloaded ammunition to another. That doesn't mean there has never been such a thing.

So let's open up the responses: Does anybody have even a hearsay or second-hand tale of such an instance? Let's hear about it; I'm really curious now and would like to find out how often, if ever, this goes on.

He can get the ammo he wants here:

Conley Precision Cartridge 257 Roberts ammo

I load for others frequently, mostly without charging for it provided they buy the components. I've done it for years and have never had a problem of any kind. In fact, I load almost as much for others as I do for myself. As recently as two months ago I loaded almost 1400 rounds for a party going to Africa and got praise for the loads. Do it right and you won't have any problems. I never have had a problem and have never heard of any problems or claims, and I was in the insurance claim business for almost 30 years. If you're afraid of your own shadow, don't go out into the sunshine.

I am a new reloader but so far just about everyone that I have brought to the range has tried some of my reloads. but this is below max loads and with my gun only.

I dont think I would feel comfortable loading for someone elses gun unless I know them and the gun VERY well.

my fear is that they would have this nice shiney new barrel and use one of my reloads in it and it will end up like this.

that was from a flaw in the (no name) barrel, but all it would take is some hotshot lawyer to blame it on my anyway.

Thanks everyone, and especially you Jackfish. Thats exactly what I needed.

Handloading and hunting/shooting are potentially hazardous, particulary for the stupid!!, everyone else knows this and takes responsibility for their own actions/mistakes...

a similiar question was asked on another board...wether you should show someone how to reload...the majority said yes, but under supervision,guidance, manuals etc etc,naturally,

scare tactics come from lawyers looking for the
next months payment on the Benz or Lexus,

Different question, along the same lines, how many people here taught their kids to drive a car and were sued (after the kid got their licence) after an accident by (a) your child, (b) other drivers?

not many, l bet, coz common sense applies,in everything...

Different question, which is scarier?, teaching your kids to reload or teaching them to drive??

in my case...definitely driving!!

cheers

I also would be leery of reloading for someone I don't know! However, IF that person would be willing to let me use his/her rifle and he/she purchased ALL the components, plus dies, if neceessary, I MIGHT be tempted to give it a try, particularly if it was for a cartridge I have never loaded for previously (an opportunity to learn somthing new!!).

I never load ammo for any of my hunting buddies either, unless they give me the rifle to use in the load development process! If they won't do this, I recommend a factory load for them to try!!

Anybody remember the recent thread started by a fellow who let one of his work buddies reload his own .340 Weatherby cases on his equipment, then got sued in small claims court after said buddy somehow crushed his cases?

I loaded some ammo for a guy I "thought" I knew pretty well. He came back and whimpered the cartridge wouldn't load the way his other ammo did. I tried it and it worked just fine. But, to make him happy, I did it all over again. Every round, 100, was hand weighed and rechecked. That was 20+ years ago. Since then, I've not reloaded one round for anyone. And, I tell them that storey and they never ask again. Plus, if something ever happened, I would carry that around with me forever. my advice, don't let it get started, it'll never stop. you could loose a friend. Just my two cents worth

If you load the ammo, you are liable for what it does. You could even be involved in a lawsuit if the ammunition you loaded worked fine...but was involved in an accident that hurt someone!

If you load the ammo and get PAID for the loading, then you are illegal and "manufacturing" w/o a license from the ATF.

Both Lose/Lose deals.

Loading for "friends only" doesn't cut much ice either. If a gun were to blow up in a friends hand and injure them, you would be surprised how fast your former "friend" and his family could turn into adversaries.

The only graceful way out of this request is to explain the liability and legal situation and then offer to TEACH them how to reload for themselves. That's really the best option for everyone anyway...and fun for all.

People who ask me to load for them that I don't want to mess with, I simply decline and tell them I don't have time to load all my own ammo...much less load for others.

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself"... l think that's how the quote goes, maybe?

now come on,some of you blokes are even scaring the horses!!
fair dinkum, sounds like some people refuse to walk out the front door because of what MAY or MAY NOT happen

Have a read of Bob338's post again... common sense,

anyone got any proof of any ammuntion company,gunshop, reloading "how to" night run by a club,anything! etc, etc, been succesfully sued?

l'd like to read about evidence,

Again thanks everyone. Epecially you Toyota and you Pecos 45. Toyota, regarding your post I always remember the quote, "Life is tough, it's tougher if you'te stupid." Pecos, I would like to have a drink with you. Are you up for that?

For a good friend, sure. For someone Ive never met, Id rather clean my garage.

I worked up a load 7 mag for a good friend of mine, fireformed, partial resized close to max. shot great out of HIS rifle. He had a friend who just bought a used 7 mag, custom?, rifle second hand. My buddy gave him a few "really accurate reloads" that I made for his gun. The other guys gun had a tight chamber and it messed his gun up somehow, I didn't get the details. Now I look like the @sshole for loading hot loads and ruining this other guys barrell, who I never met, never saw his rifle, or gave him permission to shoot a load taylored to another gun.

Think i go along with the majority on this one as well... I would never invite anyone to shoot the loads for 'my' guns out of anything else...Imagine a *fairly warm* 1400fps 300gr XTP load worked up for my 10.5" 44M Ruger SBH, now imagine some knuklehead throwing that same round into his *new to him* now third or maybe fourth owner purchased from a pawn shop pistol.... Sound far fetched? It almost happened, had i not been watching this young kid fairly close as he reached across the range table hoping my loads would perform better than the rounds thrown in to sweeten the deal of his new purchase.

Not really fearing the outcome of what should be a 'common sense' trial using the reasonable or common sense standards of a jury but I'd rather elmer someone new into handloading with all his own gear and teach him to at least my standards of safe than to load for him/her. Cheaper and less time consuming than being the 'precedent' case for some court to rule one the rest with.