I'm at a friends place i Australia and he is planning to get a progressive reloading press. He shoots a lot of varmints with 222, 223 and 6 PPC. He is a experienced handloader and benchrester but he doesn't have any experience with progessive presses. We are looking a different presses and we get the impression that Dillon, Hornady and RCBS could be the possible candidates?

Could anybody with experience of loading rifle rounds in a progressive setup get us some info in this matter!? We need a bit of info about what to think about and what to avoid.

/Stefan

If I had to do it over again, I'd go with Dillon. I sold mine to a friend many years ago.

I have 1st hand knowledge of their unlimited warranty. I found an RL550B in the trunk of a car that had been in a lake for a couple years. Badly rusted non serviceable in my opinion. I sent it to Dillon. They sent me a new press even though I was not the original purchaser. They are known for doing just that.

Check out the youtube videos on Dillon and other tools.

1. To use one successfully you have to design the load to work in the press. That is, spherical powders meter much more consistently.

2. Use a carbide expander ball so the amount of neck lube is nil or minimized. If you get enough lube in a case neck to clog the neck with powder you can get bridging. You will have underloads and over loads. Very bad.

3. You need a very effective case lube in the little rounds like .223 or you will pull case rims off because you were going too fast to bother with case lubing.

4. Unless you get an expensive on the press trimmer like the Dillon you cannot trim cases without interrupting the progressive process.

5. Many shooters like to do all of the case prep off of the progressive.
Size, trim, debur and all that junk using a conventional set up. Once the brass is ready to go the progressive will make short work by priming, charging and seating.

I find loading straight case handgun rounds a natural fit for the progressives.
Bottleneck rounds do not work as well unless you give the load and the process a lot of thought.

I have an older Dillon 450 and I never use it anymore because I am primarily a rifle and pistol shooter.

quote:

Originally posted by Stefan:
I'm at a friends place i Australia and he is planning to get a progressive reloading press. He shoots a lot of varmints with 222, 223 and 6 PPC. He is a experienced handloader and benchrester but he doesn't have any experience with progessive presses. We are looking a different presses and we get the impression that Dillon, Hornady and RCBS could be the possible candidates?

Could anybody with experience of loading rifle rounds in a progressive setup get us some info in this matter!? We need a bit of info about what to think about and what to avoid.

/Stefan

I have a Hornady pro-jector. If I had it to over again, I'd buy the new Hornady L-N-L progressive.
My only caveat would be to use the LEE Disk Powder Primer.

i use my dillion 650 for both 223 and 308. works great, but you must slow down a bit over the speed of pistol rounds. it takes quite a bit longer for the powder to drop 40 grains into a rifle case vs 5 into a pistol case, sou you must pause for a second at the top of the stroke for the powdeer to fill otherwise you end up with a mess

I use the Dillon RL550B and it does a fine job. For my rifles, I normally use it like a single stage press and weigh each powder charge but when I want to crank out larger quantities of ammo, it does just fine. The groups in my .308 open up a little bit but they still are inside 3/4"
RCBS, the pro 2000 uses, I believe, the priming strips that you have to fill before use. They do have a primer conversion so you can get away from them but parts availability is hit and miss right now.
I've got 2 of the dillons and wouldn't change.

HORNADY; period. Dillon has serious design flaws which make it hard to operate and I do not like that floating die head. Note that you have to install brass with your right hand; on the hornady, your right hand stays on the tiller and you put brass and bullets in with your left; that is much more efficient. Dillon has a better ad campaign is all. 'I have had a Hornady since the first Pro 7 and have used Dillon 450s and 550s that friends have. (had) they now have LNLs.
RCBS? no.

I prefer my Hornady lnl over my dillon...223 7.62x25 to 550 express

I have used (not owned) both the dillion and Hornady. I would buy the Hornady based on my VERY LIMITED use.

I've just found that I don't shoot near enough rifle ammo to justify jacking with a progressive.

quote:

1. To use one successfully you have to design the load to work in the press. That is, spherical powders meter much more consistently.

2. Use a carbide expander ball so the amount of neck lube is nil or minimized. If you get enough lube in a case neck to clog the neck with powder you can get bridging. You will have underloads and over loads. Very bad.

3. You need a very effective case lube in the little rounds like .223 or you will pull case rims off because you were going too fast to bother with case lubing.

4. Unless you get an expensive on the press trimmer like the Dillon you cannot trim cases without interrupting the progressive process.

5. Many shooters like to do all of the case prep off of the progressive.
Size, trim, debur and all that junk using a conventional set up. Once the brass is ready to go the progressive will make short work by priming, charging and seating.

Pretty much sums it up. Some people use an RCBS Case Lube Die. But that seems messy to me and have never seen one is use for that.

Others, as my local gun club loading .303, 7.5mm French MAS, .308 Winchester and 7.62mm Moisin Nagant do as at 5).

So in fact FULL LENGTH SIZE off the press on an Aussie Simplex (RCBS Rockchucker look-a-like). Then cleaning off the case lube and using the press, a Dillon 550, for priming, powder charging and bullet seating the round.

They do this so that a no stage is a lubricant coated case actually ever on the progressive.

As the unfortunate fact is that as you cannot get carbide dies for bottleneck cartridges there has to be some stage when case lube has to be used.

And it is better if that and your progressive with "sticky" lubed up fingers from handling the cases come nowhere near it or its powder or primers.

I have the Hornady L-N-L AP and it runs well, but it needs ball powder exclusively to get consistent charge drops. I imagine this is common with all systems though.

I use my old RL-450B for everything rifle and pistol. Never had a problem. Use the Dillon or Midway Spray lube. Works great.

I use Hornady one shot spray lube and I trim my .223 cases -.020 the first time resized and never cut it again.

I use a Lee Loadmaster "Gasp"

All machines have some design features. And some limitations. Same for reloading machines.

Being an experienced loader, he already has experienced some of the ins and outs .

My set up , and useage, is similar to yours and your friend. I have two Redding single stages including a Big Boss 2, and a UltraMag to take care of smaller runs.

I use the Dillon 650 for the 223 and for a pistol caliber too. That is the 650s best application - getting it set up and tweaked and running a volume of ammo.

Dillon has a lot of options for these machines, including being able to set up for trimming, of course the case feeder, and even a primer filler. All of it is nice. Some of it is somewhat more costly than some other products may be. But it works well and works well for a long time.

The Dillon Quick Change system is nice too. You can change out powder measure and the priming system in one pass which is darn nice. Most of the Dillon equipment has been refined over time.

I prefer to decap, and trim off the 650 in most situations. That is just my set up. But again you can use the 650 in that role. With a tool head and the trimmer you can decap, resize and trim in an operation. Then you can have another tool head set for loading. Pull some pins, load the hoppers, and make rounds.

I like the ball powders in the 650 . I find I like AA more all the time. In just blasting rounds for AR something like the AA2230 meters very well. For my 69 gr loads the 2520 goes in the measure.

Like above, I prefer the carbide and do use lube sparingly too. I have yet to have a stuck case - knock on wood. For rounds going in a magazine, like ARs, you can go with Reddings taper crimp as another station. Or for your top rounds go with Reddings Competition seater in the seating stage.

Hornady makes some nice equipment I am sure. That is evidenced above. But for me, Dillon is progressive reloading machines.

Like a race car, getting used to and comfortable with your equipment is what it takes to get the best results. Having your process and the loading machine, with its particulars and preferences , that will become familiar to you and likely be what you prefer.

Once you get used to loading on a 650, you will be using Dillon. Your next stop will probably be a 1050 .

quote:

I use my old RL-450B for everything rifle and pistol. Never had a problem. Use the Dillon or Midway Spray lube. Works great.

Exactly the same here.

I bought a Dillon BL 550 for rifle cartridges. It's the basic 550 press without the powder measure or other accessories. I'm using it as a semi-progressive press. I still use the electronic powder measure on the bench. May not be as fast as a full progressive, but fast enough. Also have a Dillon 650 for pistol cartridges. I do have shell plate and dies for 223 for the 650, but haven't set it up yet.

I use a XL650 Dillon for volume reloading for handguns. However, my rifle ammo is loaded one by one on an old RCBS Rockchucker, using bench rest techniques and (mostly) Redding competiton dies.

for me, i would never consider a manual indexing press -- the 550 actually costs more than the LNL...

don't like powder throwing? want to weight them? great, take off the powder thrower, and drop a weighed charge.. i do that frequently...

want to use a lee factory crimp? works great on my hornady....

oal variations? not much...

i have NOT used a 650, but have a square deal and have loaded on the 550, and ammo master, and the weird piggyback rcbs.. and a lee thingie...

it boils down to 650 or hornady .. i like the hornady and can load from tiny to huge, anything that takes a standard die.. works great for me

Dillon = lifetime no BS warranty. No fine print.

Everybody else...umm yeah, for a year maybe.

I own two 550B's. Two, because I am too lazy to swap out the small and large primer systems. Couple extra toolheads, all set up, and switching is a ten minute or less job. I also own six SDB's because, again, I am lazy.

Dillon had a service rep named Darryl something, about twenty four years ago. He shot bench rest. 6PPC. He had a 550B set up to clamp to a tailgate or bench. I sat near him at the Cactus Classic about 1992 or 93. I watched him load the ammunition he shot on that 550B. He agged in the low .1moa at 100 and 200 with both LV and HV rifles.

The light came on for me, been a Dillon man ever since. I shoot maybe 1200-1300 rounds of 223 a year, and about a third that many in my 22-284. I started out with a Lyman Tong Tool and dies for my first 223. I still got that rig, but my stuff gets cranked out on one of my 550B's these last twenty years or so. Ditto for my 300 BLK. The other one runs mostly 308 win.

Dillons just work...

Rich

I have a Dillon 550 B with the removable tool head. I don’t think you can go wrong with this press. Yes it is a manual indexing press and some don’t like that. I happen to like that feature after loading on several brands that had auto index. Well back to the question of using a progressive for rifle. For cases that I want to measure the powder charge I basically use the press like a single stage and measure each charge on my Pact scale using my Pact powder dispenser when doing load development. I also do this when loading several of the big bores like the .375 .458 LOT and other loads that need a filler.
I will put my 308 and 223 match ammo loaded on the Dillon against any ones. I have found the Dillon powder measure to be extremely consistent with ball powders.
When varmint shooting you need lots of ammo well at least when we go prairie dog hunting. The major difference in progressive verses single stage is time. I can load 50 pistol or rifle rounds in less than 12 min.
As stated before you can’t beat the customer service from Dillon.

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
5. Many shooters like to do all of the case prep off of the progressive.
Size, trim, debur and all that junk using a conventional set up. Once the brass is ready to go the progressive will make short work by priming, charging and seating.

This is why I dont understand the attraction to a progressive press. If the above method is done, it can be done just as quickly, (prime, charge, and seating) using two single stage presses or a turret press with an auto prime system. And otherwise you are mass producing rifle ammo without proper case prep..

quote:

5. Many shooters like to do all of the case prep off of the progressive.
Size, trim, debur and all that junk using a conventional set up. Once the brass is ready to go the progressive will make short work by priming, charging and seating.

This is how most competitive shooters of my acquaintance load. We only "assemble" on the Dillon but most of us also load pistol calibers, loaded progressively. The 223 ammo can be assembled very quickly, really.

A progressive is a very useful tool!

My two cents, YMMV of course

Mark

I guess I am something of a Dillon fan.

I will load .223 and .308 "plinking," 3 Gun, and Varmint ammo on my Dillon 1050 and .45-70 on a 650.

Using the dillon or hornady one shot case lube, I have had no problems with commercial brass, although I do have to slow my loading rate down when compared to what I do with pistol.

I do trimming with .223 (and I have the set up for .308) on the 1050 as I can get rid of the military crimp and all at once- but have gummed up the works by missing that there was some berdan primed junk in there- it is a lot quicker than pretty much any method, but the set up is kind of guess and by golly until you get it dialed in. The case feeder really speeds the run up.

The .45-70 was actually a non issue.

I will also do some rifle on a 550B. Usually for non semi autos, as the shooting rate is low enough I don't need to load more than 100 in a batch.

Although in reality, for me, the set up time for the progressives makes it not really worthwhile for low volume (hunting) loads and the constant moving of load work up tends to get these done on a RCBS Rock Chucker.

I feel that if you have a stable load the progressives are great. If you are tinkering or if (say in a group situation) you are loading lots of different small lots of loads, it doesn't work so well.

The brass prep done on the 1050 is not as precise as I can do by hand, but its good enough for holding say 3/4 MOA in my guns that will do .5 MOA with everything done one at a time by hand in my experience. If you do the prep work elsewhere, once it is dialed in, I can't say I see the difference between the progressive loaded ammo and the single stage; although getting the press dialed in in the first place can be tricky with rifle as opposed to handgun.

I will say that I know several folks who have the hornady LNL system and like it. I had a LNL press and couldn't get it to hold for beans, so gave it away. I may have had a lemon, but it did go back to the factory and they did not fix my problems (said everything was in spec), so away it went. Dillon has replaced more broken decapping stems and pins than I can count for free. The caveat being they consider the 1050 a "production" machine and the no BS warranty is not valid for that...

Stay away from the Dillon SDB though- it requires its own dies, its touchy, and is really only for handgun rounds.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

Everybody else...umm yeah, for a year maybe.


Rich

Umm yeah bull spit

Rcbs is widely praised for their warranty...

And, why lookie here Hornady has an lifetime warranty as well... Pretty darn reasonable warranty http://m.hornady.com/support/warranties

I won't bother looking up lee

However the only time a warranty is actually important is when the machine breaks.. One wouldn't suppose that either break down regularly?


But, of course, like most "my product is better because I own it" positions, such a post is usually completely innocent of exposure to use of a competing project... And utterly resistant to objectivity


Dillon makes a good product. The 550 doesn't remotely feature to feature compare with the 650, now, does it? And the lnl Ap is feature parity with the 650 and cost basis with the 550

I have loaded on nearly every type of set up from the old Lee Loader to commercial reloading equipment. I got into Dillon 550B long before the new Hornadey presses were available I think they are a good press but I am to far down the Dillon road to switch.
Jeffosso is right that most tout the brand that they have. I have had good experience with Dillon, Redding, RCBS, Lyman and forester.

Wstrnhunter let me try to explain the attraction of the progressive press. You tout the turret press that is a progressive that the case stands still and the dies are moved. As to case prep I tend to do it one time when I get new brass. When I return from shooting I dump the brass in the tumbler. When ready I use a spray on case lube. If I have to set up change caliber on the 550 it takes about as long as setting up the fl sizing die on a signal stage press. After the 4th stroke of the handle I have a loaded round drop in the bin. So in the time you size 100 cases I have 100 loaded rounds that shoot as well or better than yours.
Bill

Before getting a progressive press carefully examine your reloading technique to be sure it is compatible with a progressive press.

Years ago I traded a nicely modified and very accurate 45 Combat Commander for a big box of reloading gear. I was very exited when I found I had gotten a progressive press - a Dillon 550! I attempted to set it up for use and then realized it was the same press that they used at the range to reload the 38 special loads for the police practice rounds. I got some help from the guys at the range and got it set up and working... sort of.

My anal retentive side would not trust the press to throw accurate powder charges and every once in a while it would seat a primer upside down. It ended up taking longer to load 100 cases than it did for me to load them on my Rock Chucker press. (that's what happens when you stop to check after the seating of the primer and again after the powder is dropped.

I sold it cheap and went back to loading in batches on the Rock Chucker press. I don't miss it at all and I am sure that my powder charges are all the same and my primers are properly seated.

There is nothing wrong with the progressive presses but they don't fit well with my reloading process.

Just another aspect to examine before you lay out the cash for a press.

PaulS, You could have called the Dillon teak support line. “Call us. We mean it. Anyone can make a mistake. There's no such thing as a dumb question. If something is giving you a problem, let us help you!” 800-223-4570.
I am wondering what test you did to decide the powder measure was throwing inaccurate charges? I have had a primer flip over but only rarely and mostly when not working smoothly. I did find doing the basic mint on my press as with any piece of equipment makes every thing work smoothly.
Bill