So you weigh the bullets, and sort them.
My digital scale weighted some 150 grain Accubonds that turned out to be 150.2 and 150.1 on my digital scale with a few odd weight bullets.

My question is as you seat the bullet there has to be some loss of jacket material? As the bullet travels down the bore it deposits some of it's jacket, right? Not every bullet loses the same amount? Or does the amount shed in the barrel really not effect accuracy?
Just wondering.
Your opines are appreciated.

When you start talking about weight differences of that amount, it could be an air bubble in the core or the core making machine cut it a little fine.
Regardless of how thick or thin the cup was, it seems that it would still leave the same amount of metal in the bore. The lands and grooves are only touching the outside of the bullet. Considering the violence of the ignition and gas expansion of the cartridge firing, I don't think a small amount of weight variance would matter.
All that said, I'm not much for weighing bullets.

For benchrest competition, sorting bullets into lots of .1 grain can definitely improve accuracy...but it takes a benchrest rifle, benchrest loading equipment, a benchrest SHOOTER, (and benchrest group-measuring equipment) to see it.

For highpower rifle competition, silhouette competition, or hunting, I believe weighing bullets is an absolute waste of time.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
For benchrest competition, sorting bullets into lots of .1 grain can definitely improve accuracy...but it takes a brenchrest rifle, benchrest loading equipment, a benchrest SHOOTER, (and benchrest group measuring equipment) to see it.

For highpower rifle competition, silhouetter dcompetition, or hunting, I believe weighing bulleryd is an absolute waste of time.

+1

One thing, AC, when you get to the level of serious BR competition, you are buying components that are presorted. I checked some .223 brass --made by Lapua under another name-- and it was dead on. I checked some Remington BR bullets that were within .01. So I agree with you, bullet weighing and brass weighing is a pointless PIA. Especially when you're talking about a factory box gun.
Of course, some folks truely believe that it makes them a better shooter, and it probably does but IMO the advantage is between their ears.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wasbeeman:
One thing, AC, when you get to the level of serious BR competition, you are buying components that are presorted. I checked some .223 brass --made by Lapua under another name-- and it was dead on. I checked some Remington BR bullets that were within .01. So I agree with you, bullet weighing and brass weighing is a pointless PIA. Especially when you're talking about a factory box gun.
Of course, some folks truely believe that it makes them a better shooter, and it probably does but IMO the advantage is between their ears./QUOTE]

But can that make a difference for some and is it quantifiable? Isn't the mind a large factor in many of these shooting exercises anyway?

I never weigh bullets as such, only to make sure they are the weight listed on the box.
I shot 1000yd for a while and the guy that had the club record would spinn all his bullets and thats how he claimed to shoot so good.
some groups were under 1" at 1000yds. amazing.

Loss of jacket material when seating a bullet means you need to chamfer the case mouth.

As far as weighing bullets, I think it's a waste of time. If the bullet met quality control leaving the factory, it's good.

quote:

I never weigh bullets as such, only to make sure they are the weight listed on the box.
I shot 1000yd for a while and the guy that had the club record would spinn all his bullets and thats how he claimed to shoot so good.
some groups were under 1" at 1000yds. amazing.

WOW a world record shooter in hiding.... The current World Records are 1.403" 5 shot group and 2.815" for a 10 shot group.

I'm in Ohio and would like to know who this shooter is.

Sam, even with the case neck chambered, which I do ,there could be some exchange of metal, couldn't there?
Gliding metal deposits on the bore, that's why we look for those magical copper removing agents. I don't think every bullet leaves the exact same amount, or does it?

I most certainly understand the physical and mental advantages of trying to start with the most consistent set of values when you are trying to seek perfection.

In a man made society, using and employing man made tools trying to achieve perfection in an imperfect world is well. . .difficult to grasp.
Just my opine.

Thank you for your input!

Kindest regards.

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:
I never weigh bullets as such, only to make sure they are the weight listed on the box.
I shot 1000yd for a while and the guy that had the club record would spinn all his bullets and thats how he claimed to shoot so good.
some groups were under 1" at 1000yds. amazing.

wow.. got an pics of this amazing shooting? 1/10th MOA with the wind.. amazing

Rusty,
what caliber and type of gun? A hunting rifle? no, brother, i wouldn't bother

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
One thing, AC, when you get to the level of serious BR competition, you are buying components that are presorted.

Depends on the bullet-maker. Some reliably are, some aren't...depending on their backlog, volume, time, and equipment. I found it a good idea to do my own random checks of EVERY batch of benchrest competition bullets I used to buy. Once in a while a guy gets a not so pleasant surprise.

And some folks make their own, which of course they should sort by individual weighing of each and every one when finished.

Jeffe,
Currently I'm loading for my two 308s. My M03 Mauser with a match barrel and my Savage FCP-10 SR. Mostly hunting and some F Class 300 yard shooting. I don't think my shooting skills are up to the ability of my rifles.

WOW a world record shooter in hiding.... The current World Records are 1.403" 5 shot group and 2.815" for a 10 shot group.
i DIDNT SAY THAT.


http://thundervalleyprecision.com/

"Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

For benchrest competition, sorting bullets into lots of .1 grain can definitely improve accuracy...but it takes a brenchrest rifle, benchrest loading equipment, a benchrest SHOOTER, (and benchrest group measuring equipment) to see it."

I agree for long range stuff but doubt .1 gr. matters at all for normal 100-200 yard BR matches.

quote:

a benchrest SHOOTER,

bottom line

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Sam, even with the case neck chambered, which I do ,there could be some exchange of metal, couldn't there?
Gliding metal deposits on the bore, that's why we look for those magical copper removing agents. I don't think every bullet leaves the exact same amount, or does it?

I most certainly understand the physical and mental advantages of trying to start with the most consistent set of values when you are trying to seek perfection.

In a man made society, using and employing man made tools trying to achieve perfection in an imperfect world is well. . .difficult to grasp.
Just my opine.

Thank you for your input!

Kindest regards.

There are a lot of variables in that. I'll use your .308 as an example. If you combined copper loss (jacket damage, fouling, etc) at 1/10 of a grain on a 150 grain bullet you are looking at a .06 to .07 % weight loss which well with in the tolerance for the bullet weight. I've never weighed copper fouling in a barrel before but that would be a lot of fouling. To get an idea of 1/10 of a grain of jacket weigh out 1/10 of a grain of shavings next time you trim cases. I have had cases cut part of a the boat tail of on 52 grain Sierra's (I didn't weigh the trimmed off portion) that look like a copper finger nail sliver. At 100 yards there was no noticable change of groups from a National Match A-2. There may have been in a scoped varmint gun.

I would have to agree that fouling would change across a string. If you have a barrel prone to fouling it would colect more on the first couple of rounds than the last couple as it would fill in the pits earlier. I'd hazard a guess that the barrel would cause more inacurracy than the bullet changes would.

Hope this helps some.

Always appreciate your input, sir!

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Jeffe,
Currently I'm loading for my two 308s. My M03 Mauser with a match barrel and my Savage FCP-10 SR. Mostly hunting and some F Class 300 yard shooting. I don't think my shooting skills are up to the ability of my rifles.

Rusty,

I don't think weighing bullets to 0.1 grains is going to improve your hunting or 300 yd target accuracy.

Only time I weigh bullets is when I buy a lot of "seconds". In that case I will not only weigh'em I'll also mic the diameters.

It also depends on how "old" your bullets are.

I still have bullets that I purchased back in the 1960s! (Don't laugh. I was reloading for the city and county cops and was able to buy bullets [brass/powder/primers] at wholesale cost without tax -- and I bought a bunch of hunting bullets in 6mm, 6.5mm, 308 caliber and 35 caliber at about $2.75 /100 for myself to offset the "free" labor and hand-cast bullets I loaded for their 38 Special target practice. I also still have some brass/primers/powder left over from that era!)

Some of those old 1960s bullets made by Speer, Nosler, and Hornady, you need to sort by weight because they can vary as much as +/- .6 grains.

I did the sorting long ago on my old beam scale, but I have found that with modern manufactored bullets I don't need to weigh or sort because they seldom vary by +/- .2 grains.

Barstooler

Com'on guys. Life is too short to weigh @#!!*^ bullets or cases. Especially, as I said, for a factory box gun.
The only bad batch of BR bullets I ever go was from some shade tree type that "hand crafted" each bullet according to him. I didn't weight check them other than to take one out of the box and it did indeed weight 52grs and was real pretty but they shot like shit.

After my brief experience of weighing bullets, I have to agree that "Life is too short" to weigh bullets or to hunt with an ugly rifle!

i used to weigh bullets too. i found out THAT QUICK that i'd rather be loading em than weighing em. but i don't BR shoot. but dam it was a pain in the ass.

There is ONE scenario in which I MIGHT weigh hunting bullets (but probably not even then).

If for some reason I saved up my Social Security pension for several years and decided to take an Ovis Poli hunt in outer Mongolia or some such place, I MIGHT weigh the bullets for loading the hunting ammo for that trip. But I wouldn't be sorting them by 0.1 grain, or even by 1.0 grain lots.

I'd just be checking to make sure there was no freak in there that had a huge void in the core or something like that, and was 6 or 7 grains or more too light. That one I'd chuck. I'd hate to miss Mr. Humango Sheep at 400 yards on a $35,000 once-in-a-lifetime hunt (for me, anyway) because of a bummer bullet.

Other than that, unless you are a top level competitive benchrest shooter at an important match, it is a total waste of time which could be better used to take care of other things which also lend to attaining a winning edge.

Contrary to the beliefs of many, you CAN determine the usefulness of it even in 100 yard competition. Been there, done that. But unless you are at a competitive level where everything else has been taken care of, and where you may miss winning a two-day Grand Agg by .001" over similar top level competitors, there are probably much more useful ways to spend your "accuracy improving" time. (Like polishing your wind-reading skills.)

Weighing bullets is a "dead last priority" item in a list of hundreds of things one could do IF they had unlimited time and money.

I have been known to weigh factory bullets in a general sense because of a dud box of Swifts I had once. I decided to grind a few bullets in half for display purposes and found this.


On weighing a goodly sample I found a disparity of up to five grains in weight, so did a check on a half dozen of the other brands on hand and found most were within +/- .1gn

Thanks VonGruff...that's a great example.

What was the calibre of that bullet? And the weight? What I'm getting at is what percentage of the total bullet weight would the 5grs be?I'm gonna opine the bullet would be a dud accuracy wise because it would be out of balance. Through some miracle, had the bullet been balanced but light, I'm gonna say you would have noticed perhaps a slight flyer but it would be well within hunting accuracy.
Merely weighting the bullet would-not-have given you the information that sectioning did.

The bullet has what looks to be one-half of its cavity missing, what I am trying to point out is that if the void would have been in the middle of the bullet, it would not have made a big difference in the flight of the bullet. I one would fill a ball full of water with no voids and rolled it on the floor it would roll just fine, now lets say that you filled the ball half fall and let the water freeze and tried to roll the ball it would wobble all over the place. If one wanted to they could take a balloon and put about 8 oz of water and then blow up the balloon and roll it on the floor and the balloon would end up wobbling all around. This theory applied to bullets is general physics. This would end up opening up groups considerably, the void in the bullet pictured above has more weight in one half of the bullet and would end up to a very unstable projectile.

The only bullets i have weighed were some old Remington 55 grain FMJ that were hitting side ways at 50-100 yards.
I found a difference of 10 grains,about a 1/3 of a box were off.
They got shot up at the pit real fast.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
What was the calibre of that bullet? And the weight? What I'm getting at is what percentage of the total bullet weight would the 5grs be?I'm gonna opine the bullet would be a dud accuracy wise because it would be out of balance. Through some miracle, had the bullet been balanced but light, I'm gonna say you would have noticed perhaps a slight flyer but it would be well within hunting accuracy.
Merely weighting the bullet would-not-have given you the information that sectioning did.

As can be seen the void is on one side and being a 150gn 7mm would have been atrocious. Didn't get the weight of this one before sectioning as up untill seeing it, I had no reason to think any the worse of them. The others in the box being out by 5 gn was nearly 3.5% and being on one side is surely enough to warrant concern. How can anyone be sure the weight difference is centralised so gyroscopic balance is unafected or a void to one side. If I was to be shooting under 200yds I may sample weight check for consistency but if long shots were a possibility I would certainly run them over the scale for uniformity at least to within +/- .1 - .2 on 150-160gn hunting bullet.

I weigh and sort all componets and weigh the result.

I think it helps and Keeps mistakes down

Snake

Weighing commerical bullets designed for a hunting rifle is a waste of time.
However, weighing cast bullets can help weed out flyers since there can be voids in the bullets that are only detected by weighing them.

I was just about to mention that I started weighing projeciles when I started casting.

If I have a difficult rifle that I can't find a load for, I start to weigh all components simply to eliminate variables. I have found some larger manufacturer component projectiles vary 1.5 grains over a sample of 100. I just put them into lots of similar weight and throw out the extremems at each end. This can be one, two or five projectiles.

Hey Rusty

I weighed bullets for a short period of time. Here separated by .1 grain increments



and kept them boxed separate



but could not assign any demonstrable benefits in my hunting rifles and bullets. Some manufacturers like Sierras have a much better extreme spread on weights in a box and others like Barnes are terrible. But Barnes shoots lights out most of the time.

But I do think I have seen enough anecdotal evidence to justify sorting bullets by bearing length




Especially Accubonds

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Com'on guys. Life is too short to weigh @#!!*^ bullets or cases. Especially, as I said, for a factory box gun.
The only bad batch of BR bullets I ever go was from some shade tree type that "hand crafted" each bullet according to him. I didn't weight check them other than to take one out of the box and it did indeed weight 52grs and was real pretty but they shot like shit.

Yes, Yes and Yes---waste of time for a factory gun! The real area that should be looked at is bearing surface if you want to sort and that is a waste in a factory gun!!!

one mans waste of time is another mans hobby

You can quote me

Snake

quote:

Originally posted by temmi:
one mans waste of time is another mans hobby

You can quote me

Snake

You are absolutely correct. However don't try to present your waste of time as a virtue. It is simply a waste of time.
As I've posted before; once a fellow gets his feet on the ground reloading, he should weigh bullets, cases, primers, dryer lint, and so forth. Why?? Because he can; he has a iffy-jiffy electronic scale, not a balance beam. He should uniform primer pockets and flash holes. He should measure neck thicknesses, and, of course, turn necks. And all of the anal, nit-picky things that one hears about in cyberspace as being absolutely manditory to accurate hunting ammo.
But once he is making good accurate ammo, and he himself has a good enough bench technique to shoot consistant groups, he should add these items to his routine one at a time. Since he has a benchmark of accuracy, he can determine if the added step does indeed make his groups smaller. If it does, keep it, if not, discard it and try another thing and add or discard it.
To take a facet from the stool shooters and add it to your reloading routine is not gonna change your $300 wally special into a tack driver. To think so is folly.
I'm certainly not forbidding anyone from turning nor weighing not uniforming. Place whatever value on your time that you choose. But, IMO, trigger time is the most important facet of reloading. As has been posted many times, reloading doesn't save you money; it lets you shoot more.

At one time, the article is from the mid 90’s, the USMC ammunition techs used to weight sort bullets used for their long range ammunition. The article I have from Shooting sports shows this bored looking Marine in front of a scale and labeled bins on either side.

A bullet as bad as the Swift should never have left the factory. I cannot understand how, that was packaged and sold with given this era’s sophisticated electronic machines . Swift either has lost control of their production processes or they are shipping non conforming material.

Still, a target shooting bud of mine weighs his Sierra Matchkings. He claims he has found lightweight bullets in boxes of 168 SMK’s.

He is the only target shooter I know who weighs his bullets, but I generally don’t ask that question. Target shooters will walk from a brand with the first bad bullet down range. Target shooters who get unexplained eights will not put up with defective bullets.

Thanks for sharing Woods. Thank you all for your opines and thoughts!