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Ray, You are so wrong...  that pig I shot last June looked right at me and said...oh thank God you didn't shoot me with a 30-06 now that would have really hurt...  Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Hey Mark, You are certainly not alone with thos thoughts. A lot of it is fostered by the various Reloading Manulas which hold the 30-06 to SAFE Pressures for older rifles. Where the 308Win has always been loaded to a higher pressure by the Factories and SAAMI Standards. As you got to Varget (and you would also find with IMR-4064), you are using a powder which is "about" the best balanced one for the 308Win and the bullets you were using. Same for H-4350 and the 30-06. So, the difference in velocity is just which one burns more fuel. As for accuracy, it is a complete toss-up with regular production grade rifles. If you had access to 20 of each type, some would just be more accurate than the others, but it would be incorrect to assume one is inherently better than the other. The opposite is true for fine tuned target rifles. Here the 308Win is better than the 30-06 due to a group of "combined" reasons, not just a single one. In my case, I've had a whole bunch of 30-06s and probably twice that number of 308Wins. I like them both, but have found the 308Win to fit my "general" hunting needs as well as any caliber made. If I need more than the 308Win, I simply go on to a larger cartridge than the 30-06. But, that is because of where and what I typically hunt. A person armed with either cartridge is in pretty good shape. But for a person who is buying his "first" firearm, or a person who reloads, there is nothing at all wrong with a "new" 30-06. Don't agree at all with buying old firearms, because you just never know what they have been subjected to. | |||
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Atckinson has it right ! Try 48 grns of RL 15 and a 150 grn bullet (2920) 22"bbl and you have a deer rifle for anywhere. if you want to shoot big bullets get a .35 cal But, I know from experience that 180 grn round nose coreklocks will kill moose,elk and black bears easily. | |||
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The .308 can beat the 30-06 in competition with weight limited rifles. The 30-06 can beat the 308 for hunting big game. I have several 308s and 30-06s I own. Enjoy them both. | |||
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this is a three and a half year old thread.... post away if you like..... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I have a 308, a 30-06 and a 300 win mag. Not sure what your rifle battery is but if looking to do it all I'd recomend going right past the '06 to a 300 win mag. I love my tikka t3 as it's really light wt and good handling. I have found super accurate reloads at 2800 fps with 150 grain bullets. So I can make my 300 win mag be a 308, an 06 or a 300 win mag. Can't get the other two to do that. Just something to think about when considering. | |||
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I have 30 cal deer rifles in 30-30, 303Sav, 300Sav,.308, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 7.5 Swiss, 7.62x39mm, 303Brit, 7.5 Swiss, 303Brit, 7.62x54R, and 7.62x53R. The most fun to shoot 30 cal is the 300WinMag. | |||
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The .30-06 is far and away the most versatile. Especially with heavy for caliber bullets. The .308 is best with auto-loaders because of the thicker rim. | |||
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My two 30 cals are a very light 24/47 Mauser in 308 and a 1903A3 in 30-06. The 30-06 has a 23 1/2 inch barrel, the 308 a 19 inch barrel. I have taken the 308 elk hunting but I generally take a 270 or 30-06 for my Western Hunting. My 308 takes a back seat to my 7x57 all the time when I go deer hunting. Maybe I should give the 7x57 a break. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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Lazarus thread. ............................................. | |||
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i have always used my 30.06 for hunting and target shooting and love it but my wife got me a new model 700 sps in .308 cant wait to try it but dont get my dies or brass till christmas kinda torcher . but she is enjoying it | |||
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HP Shooter "I do have to wonder, if the 30-06 is superior to the 308, why did the 308 displace the 30-06 as the cartridge of choice for both NRA Conventional Highpower and NRA Long Range from the mid 60s to the early 90s?" The reasons are that the .30 cal M72 and the 7.62 M118 match ammuntion both shot the same 174 gr bullet at 2550 to 2600 fps. The M14 proved to be the better rifle in Service Rifle matches than either the M1 or the M1903. It also was destined to take over because there were a lot of service teams back then and they shot the current service rifle. (Same reason the M16/AR has taken over HP today) Even though the exterior ballistics were essentially the same the M118s smaller case give it the advantage in interior ballistics, i.e. it has a much better extreme spread than M72. This translates into smaller groups at long range like 600 yards. Switching over to bolt action match rifles it was quickly found that not only was the M118 cartridge itself more accurate but the short bolt throw of the shorter M40X and M70 target rifles built for the 7.62 Match cartridge meant the shooter did not have to lift his head of the stock in rapid fire stages. This was a distinct advantage to the M118. Those are the reasons the 7.62/308W supplanted the 30-6 in the 60s. Given loading each cartridge to the same pressures with appropriate powders the 30-06 always will have a distinct advantage over the .308W. It doesn't matter some say; well then why don't we all just go back to the 30-30 then. A 100-200 fps isn't an advantage? those that use the .300 H&H and .300 Win Mag think it is. Yes the 30-06 has an advantage over the .308W. I've both and have killed numerous big game with both. The last 20 years I've always reached for the '06 when going after mule deer and elk. That's not to say I'd feel "undergunned" with the .308W. It's just nice to have that extra 150-200 fps though. Larry Gibson | |||
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Hi all!! I am a Newbie to the forum , and also to reloading Rifle Ammo.. I have found this site to be very informative and look forward to seeking help as I learn the correct way to load accurate ammo... Here in Newfoundland , I have heard of guys killing Moose with a .22 cal. and on the other hand , have heard of guys unloading a 10 round clip from a .303 without twitching an ear of those large ugly things... I think that the .308 is more than enough to bag a large Moose when you take the attitude of 1 shot / 1 kill... For Generations the .30/.30 winchester was the weapon of choice of Newfoundlanders when traveling the thick woods in search of the big one.... I use a .308 and didn't need a second shot at bagging my last 9 animals... Calling them in close is the key to a successful hunt as well as lots of practice at the local range.... Think of a 100 pound karate champ that can break your jaw with the palm of his hand , and then realize that bigger is not always best!!!! Cheers from the Rock... | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading The 308 or the 30-06, which one and why?
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