Do you have one? How often do you use it?

Thanks

I have two & rarely use them for any reloading purposes.
I use my digital callipers all the time.

I have more than one and I use them all the time. Quite frequently for reloading too.

I have a carbide faced set of 0"-3"

None of them are ever used for reloading except on very rare occasion.

It's just not needed.

I have 6 or 8 mikes probably more.
I use a common 0-1" mike constantly and have for about 40 years. I mike a lot of cast bullets, cartridge case heads, neck diameters over seated bullets and reloading dies parts.
I use a set of small hole gauges with the mike to measure chamber diameters at the head and sometimes the neck. For larger inside diameters I will use a telescoping gauge and the appropriate mike.

I also have a multi-anvil mike I use with a dowel pin anvil to measure the thickness of turned case necks. I use 0-1" blade mikes to measure case head expansion. I occasionally use a depth mike on something odd.

If it is really odd I can take it to work and use a CMM or a 30" comparator. My favorite is a height micrometer and a dial test indicator.

Then every now and then I rebuild a car engine and measure a lot of things with a lot of tools.

Just another tool to have. A 0-1 mic is pretty handy and you can get a decent one pretty cheap. I use calipers more often because a lot of measurement in reloading is only +-.005 which is all a caliper can do. If you have measurements needing more resolution than that, you need a mic.

Funny....do I have one?

19....all Starrett

Not having and using a micrometer while loading ammunition would be for me like driving a car with no speedometer and no tachometer. My constant companions in the reloading room are my Craftsman 1" micrometer (bought in 1959) and my Mitatoyo tubing micrometer, plus my Craftsman 6" vernier calipers (also bought in 1959).

Less frequently used are my metric system micrometer and calipers. I sometimes use European loading manuals, and it's easier just to use them than have to constantly recalculate the dimensions in inches.

I frequently load more or less exotic calibers, which require the use of formed brass, sometimes of resized jacketed bullets, and involves rifles with questionable bore dimensions, requiring chamber and bore casts to get to the correct cartridge and bullet measurements. Precise measuring tools are indispensible for all these activities.

In the past, I have loaded large quantities of precision ammunition for 600 and 1000 yard target shooting. To wring the ultimate in performance from these cartridges, the neck thickness needs to be uniform and matched to the chamber dimensions, the length of the cases needs to be uniform, and the run out between bullet and cartridge case needs to be minimum. None of this can be controlled without accurate measurind devices.

I've got Starrett micrometers from 0-6" as well as just about every other machinist measuring tool and have yet to use them for reloading. A set of calipers is accurate enough for anything I've ever done reloading.

Yes. All the time.

No micrometer, although I should breakdown and get one.

I use my vernier calipers on a daily basis, however.

I have one and used it a lot in the first 5 years of reloading. I used to carefully measure case web expansion of all my loads. This was because I was building up maximum safe loads for the 6.5X55 in a Sako & Winchester action and all the load data was for old Mauser 96 actions.

Now a days I use the micrometer to measure ammo neck dimensions - do they need neck turning? etc.

A micrometer is absolutely essential for the above measurement where accuracy of 1/1000 inch is the objective.

Used as needed. Measure necks, cast bullet & more.

My experience with a dial caliper is better than some have stated.I have checked it against
a vernier micrometer and it seems always to be
spot on. The caliper is used at the bench, the vernier for serious measuring. The calipers wider opening is great for such things as case length.

Pretty much what 243 has and uses.

Daily.

I use a Fowler dial caliper. I use it every time I reload (along with a Hornady OAL gauge) to check seating depth.

I have 2 high grade micrometers, the Brown & Sharpe reads in tenths, but rarely use them for reloading.

Also have 1 professional grade vernier 6" caliper. In cheap-o (reloader grade) I have 3 dial and 1 digital 6" calipers, plus 1 dial 12" caliper. All are easily within a half thou at their worst point and that's plenty accurate for any reloading chores.

What's the value of high cost calipers? I know of a couple of professional machine shops that are buying Harbor Freight Tools Chinese made 6" dial and digital calibers (either for $12 on sale, which they often are) rather than spending ten or more times that on "professional" grade tools that only last until someone drops them on a concrete shop floor.

I have never seen a "precision caliper" of any kind or price that was only accurate to 5 thousanths, even the old RCBS plastic jobs did better than that!

Sure was glad to see 243winxb display one of the old Ohaus plastic calipers. I loaded ammo for a lot of years where that was my only measureing tool. Except for a 12' tape measure.
As my skills and marksmanship got better, my ammo got better. Using the same old rock and a rusty nail eq I'd started out with.

I just order a cheap one from Graf & Sons.

I think it is a natural progression --

- when you start reloading, you don't need all the "high speed" gadgets, in fact, they probably confuse things

- if you stick with it, you start studying the theories behind the steps and want to go beyond the basics; the more you learn, the more you want know the "why"; it can get addictive and you end up somewhere between Ted & 243winxb

I do have a 1.000" micrometer that I use seldom for reloading. I have a Brown and Sharpe 40 year old dial caliper that I take from it's case and look at about every 6 or 7 years but never use. My well cared for Midway stainless dial caliper has been servicing me for a long time and seems perfectly adequate. roger

Bought a digital caliper at Harbor Freight for $12 Saturday. Made out of stainless & seems to be decent.

One question, though. The caliper readout reads to 3 decimal places, i.e. 1/1000th inch. Can I reasonably expect it to be accurate to that last decimal place? Do I NEED it to be?

quote:

Originally posted by B Mullins:
Bought a digital caliper at Harbor Freight for $12 Saturday. Made out of stainless & seems to be decent.

One question, though. The caliper readout reads to 3 decimal places, i.e. 1/1000th inch. Can I reasonably expect it to be accurate to that last decimal place? Do I NEED it to be?

Try calibrating it to be sure. roger

The first two indicators that I see are "Harbor Freight" and "$12". Frankly for what you can buy quality used tools I would not spend $12 on a Harbor Freight set of calipers.

Yes you need thousandths and no I would not trust your caliper to be accurate or repeatable.

To try to "calibrate" them you could use some different caliber bullets to check how close they read. It will not be perfect, but for what it is they will work.

quote:

Can I reasonably expect it to be accurate to that last decimal place? Do I NEED it to be?

Yeah, most of the time. Fact is, all 'digital' stuff averages the last digit so you may be off a half thou either way. Still good enough for what we really need for reloading.

One of my dial calipers is Midway, the rest are Harbor Freight, including my digital. They are all made in the same Chinese shop I believe, including the Lyman, Hornady and RCBS I've seen but at much higher prices than my HF tools.

I won't argue the quality difference vs. price and effective suitability for reloaders of professional tools vs. the "cheep' stuff but I started by buying a Midway when my eyes started having trouble reading the scale on my Swiss vernier caliper. Then I found a new HF store in my area and saw their's were identical to my Midway and others I'd seen in reloading stores. Now I use the HF stuff for all of my loading and most of my machining work, they do fine.

I can litterly buy a dozen of the $12-14 HF tools (on sale) for the price of ONE Mitutoyo/Starret/Brown&Sharpe so I don't care if one of the cheepies eventually wears out, I'll toss it and get another without blinking an eye. (And I sure won't pay the premium RCBS puts on their identical Chinese caliper!)

I have a three high precision "Jo" blocks I use for checking both accuracy and repeatablity of my calipers and micrometers. In some five plus years of tests none of mine have changed and all remain within a half thou, usually half that. What more could I ask?

Jim C. I took a picture of my gages a few months back, the picture weighed 400 lbs. Not the least of them but one was an electronic gage that measured to .000,005, there is not enough space at the end of this thread to explain the problem using that type of gage, I removed the electronics then installed a dial indicator on top of the stylist for practical use. Dial calipers, indicators and digital gages speed things up but when vanity becomes part of the motive a reloader looses sight of the limits to reloading, no matter how far to the right of . the zeros pile up the reloader must come back to reality, the only tool the reloader has to duplicate the results of the gages is the press, and the press sizes brass cases. Memory, recovery, spring back or jump back the reloader has little to no discipline as defined when they fire to form, neck size 5 times then full length size the case AND starts over. How do they do that?

Then there is the disconnect, the reloader chooses to use terms like smidgen, bit, tad and guess as in fractional guesstimate of a turn in degree with out a degree wheel, or a fractional guesstimate of a turn in fractions like 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn with out a fractional indicator. The threads on my press (I use) are 14 threads per inch, that is .071429 thousands per turn, worst yet, after making the adjustment the reloader has no way of verifying the adjustment.
Peripheral
I do not have a press, I have 20 plus, basically I get the same results from a press, die and shell holder others get, with one exception I do not use all the peripheral tools, my #ONE tool is the feeler gage, it is a transfer and a standard and I use it to verify measurements. The feeler gage turns my press in to an adjustable press without guesstimates of a fraction in fractions or thousands, the feeler gage allows me to verify adjustments, in fact I skip the guesstimate of a turn and go straight to verify.

Brass and adjustment to get the same results, again, in the perfect world we use new brass, then we use once fired brass, then I jump off with the predictability sizing has on the case, again others fire to form and then neck size 5 times and start over by full length sizing, and again, I ask "HOW DO THEY DO THAT?" I stay in the confines of limiting sizing by adjusting the die to limit it's ability to size, I do not eliminate sizing, I am a big fan of cutting down on all that case travel.

F. Guffey

I couldn't reload to my level of accuracy without a mic. I have digital and the "old" kind, 7-8 scattered from my computer desk to reloading room to shop...even a 0-1" in the bathroom...plus a 6" caliper to go with the mics.

I buy the cheap, onsale ones, all measure to 0.0001". Measuring that close takes learning and is subject to all kinds of mess ups, and usually isn't required in reloading anyway, except for those in competition.

In one shop I worked in, we had a very good, old time machinist that could make ANY metal working machine sing opera...but he could really be a PITA when he got off on a measurement jag. 3-4 of us whizz-ons cornered him one day and whipped out our "cheapies" and challenged him to a measure-off against his Starretts.

EVERYONE of us came up with different measurements on the same gauge block...but all were withing 0.0002" of his precious Starrett and that was because of different drag, different "feels". He had us measure over a towel covered piece of foam just in case we were fumble fingered and dropped his love.

I didn't think that was too bad considering my "cheepie" bounced around in a upper tool box drawer along with rulers, squares and various other tools.

The Starrett of old is long gone. I have my Dads 80 some years old 0.5", 0-1" and 1-2" Starretts and they all still work fine, but I like my digital's better because they are easier and quicker to read.

I don't have any "working" Starretts or B-S, but two Mitutoyo and a couple of Fowlers...and I usually use two different mics when I want a very close measurement and I use the Mitutoyos' to check the others now and then.

You want to get a real Barney going just wave a cheap mic around a precision shop.

There are a whole lot of arguments and dissing going around when it comes to professional machinists or mechanics as to what equipment they will use. In the olden days only Starrett was used by the elite, B-S by the lower pee-ons.

When I was mechanikin I used Snap-0n tools in the shop...then came Mac and then Craftsman...I couldn't see any difference and the nuts and bolts definitely didn't...So

If you want high quality, accurate ammo you need a mic...which one depends on YOUR level of expectation and comfort...

Luck

Ah yes, mine cost more so's it's got to be better. Ergo, my dick is bigger.
If I earned my living using a certain kind of tool, I would use the most effective one that money could buy. Notice I said "most effective". There is a definite diminishing returns as you go up the price ladder and at a certain point you're buying name recognition and un-needed whistles and bells.
But I don't so I'm happy with my Craftsman tools and el cheapo calipers. If I break a Craftsman tool, I take it back to Sears and get another one; if I drop my calipers and they get all bent out of shape and I can't hammer them back into usefullness, I send another $12.00 off and get another one.
I don't need (read haven't the ability to use)tools that measure to .0000000001. And if I did, I wouldn't need them to load to MY level of accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Ah yes, mine cost more so's it's got to be better. Ergo, my dick is bigger.

If you saying it made it true, my wife would have a serious complaint with you.

In all seriousness, there are two types of re-loaders. Those that reload to save money and those that reload for accuracy. I happen to do both.

For someone just looking to save some money on plinking ammunition, then a cheap $12 set of chinese calipers will work just fine.

I prefer to buy american made, even if it does cost more(though not always).

If anyone wants it I have a 0-1" Starret mic, probably 40's-50's vintage, nothing real nice, but it reads true. $15 shipped 48. I picked it up with a batch of other tools and really do not need 4 0-1" micrometers. (course once I sell it I will find a use for it)

I bumped (litterally) into a guy at the local Harbor Freight store a couple of years back, he had a dozen or so 6" dial calipers and nearly that many micrometers and dial indicators in his cart. I had to express surprise! He told me he owned a small pro machine shop and had quit buying the costly name brand measurement tools because (1) they really were no more accurate and (2) any of them were gone when dropped on a concrete floor. Said he could easily buy a dozen or more cheepies for the cost of one moderately 'good' one and that just made no economic sense to him. He sounded quite intelligent to me!

The cheapie tools do not hold up to constant use in a machine shop nearly as well as the industry standards. There is no reason to use a cheapie micrometer if you have a little patience and persistence. A used Starret, Brown & Sharpe, Mitutoyo (or several other good brands) of 0-1 mikes can usually be bought for $15 to $20.

Let me try to clarify some of the factors that we are dealing with in precision measurement.
First my background so you don't think that I am some internet yahoo whose only qualifications are a keyboard. I have a BS in engineering with a concentration in Quality Assurance. In addition, I had a business that sold machine shop supplies including precision measuring tools for 24 years.
Now to the explanation:
According to the National Bureau of Standards, the accuracy spec on a dial caliper is +-.0015 inch in 6 inches of travel. A digital is +-.001 in 6 inches. Note that these are not linear deviations, your caliper could be reading +.001 at 1/2 inch and -.001 at 3/4 inch and still be within the standards. Add to that the physical limitations of the design of a caliper and a caliper is only capable of accuracy of about +-.005. Even though your caliper has .001 markings or a fourth decimal, it is not accurate and repeatable to that degree.
In reloading a caliper will work just fine for most of the things you will be measuring but if you are measuring case head expansion, etc, you need a mic.

Blacktailer
You are correct. The standards however do not reflect that technique plays a big part in practical use. The ordinary user with little technique might struggle to get as good as plus or minus .005 with a caliper.
And with a micrometer though it may have a ten- thousandths vernier not many people can do much better than plus or minus .0002 due to their technique.

Really? Only capable of .005" with a caliper? I have worked with guys that can read a scale more accurately.

FG,
It depends on technique (skill) and what you are measuring. Did you ever try those dog ears on a production basis? I have used heavy duty calipers (that is 24 to 48 inches) that were more consistent than plus or minus .005 but they are a bit different in technique.

quote:

Did you ever try those dog ears on a production basis?

Valid observation but invalid when applied to reloading. Good judgement/wisdom in matching any tool to it's use matters. A machinist grade measuring tool on a production line will see more use in ten months than any reloader will use it in ten years, and the cheap tool is cheap to replace if it ever does fail - and few will if used for reloading. Our cheep steel rifle reloading dies may 'wear out' in maybe 100,000 rounds while a $300 + factory "production" carbide die will easily last for 750,000. Who cares; if the cheep die wears out, buy a new cheep die. ??

I would laff at anyone who works so poorly that they can't get MUCH closer accuracy than +/- five thou on any undamaged dial/digital/vernier caliper, even the old plastic ones. Precision steel calipers are generally considered accurate to +/- one thou tools but most are half that, or better. And repeatability is mostly up to the skill of the user.

I only own two pairs of dial calipers, which rarely get used- usually for taking quick rough readings as lathe work progresses. My go-to is always a Starrett or B&S mic, or else a vernier caliper. (Although I need to keep a magnifying glass handy anymore for that!) Even my 12" and 24" calipers are vernier models (Starretts). I suppose reading one of those is becoming a lost art but there are no mechanical parts to wear out, or electronics requiring batteries.

I have the Starett 120A dial and a Harbor Freight digital. Both ends of the spectrum. The first Harbor Freight was bad out of the box. It jumped in a couple of spots. The second one works. Both measure the same when compared. I like the dial because you can compare the distance between marks (estimate fractions of a thousandth). I've been an analog guy in a digital world for years.

For reloading both are sufficient but it's like comparing a Fiesta to a Mustang.

quote:

Precision steel calipers are generally considered accurate to +/- one thou tools but most are half that, or better.

No they are not half that and are not intended to be. Consumers are impressed when they see a 4th decimal place in the digitals but it not of any practical use.

quote:

quote:
Precision steel calipers are generally considered accurate to +/- one thou tools but most are half that, or better.

TRUE
BUT
FG,
It depends on technique (skill) and what you are measuring.
TRUE
JMHO and what I believe can be achieved using known dia. drill blanks and Jo- blocks, a good dial caliper can yield accuracy at + or- .0005". For the average reloader this should be totally adequate. Digitals and verniers are "somewhat" different.
roger