9mm (.355) bullets in 357 ?
Years ago my friend cast his bullets for 38 cal and 9mm out of the same mold. I always thusly thought they were
the same size ( his of course were ). I have no idea what the actual size was but they were cast and perhaps more forgiving

Recently I find that 9mm bullets are .355 and .38 cal bullets are .357 caliber. There is two thousandths difference.

My reason for asking is I want to shoot a 90gr speer "9mm" (.355) jacketed bullet in a 38 or 357 magnum pistol.

I wouldnt think that just 2 thousandths would cause the bullet to rattle down the barrel but i could possibly see lower pressures being generated because of a lesser tight fit etc. Anyone ever used .355 jacketed bullets in 38 or 357 pistols ?

In case you ask why such a light bullet ?
well because the 357 mag pistol only weighs 13 ounces.
The SW Airlight with scandium frame.

I just think that a full powder 357mag with light bullet will be more effective than a loaded down 38 special with heavier bullet and they both will recoil the same. We are talking self sefense loads here. I dont even mind experimenting on my own but I hate to buy a whole box of bullets only to shoot a couple and find they dont work.

I have done it with cast bullets a lot, but have not tried it with jacketed bullets. I wouldn't think it would be an issue. If you turn the bullet upside down and try to drop it down the barrel, I bet it will fit nicely.

0.002" is about the thickness of a hair off your head. The hair in your mustache runs about 0.004".

437.5 grains in an ounce. You should be able to find .357 JHP bullets in 125 gr. If recoil is really an issue, crank back the load a bit. But I'm betting that if you're shooting this gun for self-defense, you won't notice recoil or muzzle blast at all. And you're not really going to use this gun for "a day at the range" are you? I'd stick to .357" dia. bullets in a .357 magnum. Your powder is going to ignite better if the bullet fits the bore.

Just tell me honestly OXO that you know for
sure that you wont feel a 357 mag shot
from a 13 ounce pistol. If the recoil is so
bad that it renders you ineffective, the
whole point of the SD effort is lost.
Others have said the light bullets work
ok as long as you crimp em smaller with
9mm tools. If I have to, I can even
swage them to be a little bigger in a special
bullet die. I think a 90 gr bullet at
close range traveling at 1500 fps will
be very effective if I can hold onto the gun.

I don't know how severe recoil will be, but I do know that recoil can & will act upon other rounds in the cylinder potentially causing reliability issues. Same is true for semi autos where the ammo has to pass over the feed ramp.

FWIW, the 357s reputation as a man stopper was made with 125 grain bullets, and using them at 38 Special velocities should pose no real problems for you. I don't know what else to tell you other than a 1/2" wrench can sometimes be used where a 12m/m is needed.

If you want to shoot 90gr pills, buy a .380.
You will loose penetration and the shock factor of a heavier bullet.
I tried this w/ a 9x19 years ago. I loaded up a bunch of 90gr, they were hot. Penetration on wet phone books sucked. You also need to remember that the pressure that the frame will take is higher w/ a smaller high velocity bullet. Recoil may be less, but pressure may increase. Look at the small frame S&W Model 19. S&W recommends 158gr.bullets. 125gr will crack the frame w/ extended use. Although felt recoil may be less, you may be generating extreme pressure.

Jpat. you really have no idea what internal
ballistics are all about do you. Then why
do you post ? ? ?
Your statements are possibly the goofiest
I have ever read in a forum of this sort.
Heavy bullet shock ? ?
Smaller bullets higher pressures ? ?
Please give us all a break.

quote:

Originally posted by preventec47:
Just tell me honestly OXO that you know for
sure that you wont feel a 357 mag shot
from a 13 ounce pistol. If the recoil is so
bad that it renders you ineffective, the
whole point of the SD effort is lost.
Others have said the light bullets work
ok as long as you crimp em smaller with
9mm tools. If I have to, I can even
swage them to be a little bigger in a special
bullet die. I think a 90 gr bullet at
close range traveling at 1500 fps will
be very effective if I can hold onto the gun.

If your 13 oz 357 is a S&W 360, note that it requires a minimum 120 gr. bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
I don't know how severe recoil will be, but I do know that recoil can & will act upon other rounds in the cylinder potentially causing reliability issues. Same is true for semi autos where the ammo has to pass over the feed ramp.

FWIW, the 357s reputation as a man stopper was made with 125 grain bullets, and using them at 38 Special velocities should pose no real problems for you. I don't know what else to tell you other than a 1/2" wrench can sometimes be used where a 12m/m is needed.

I think you ment 13mm and 1/2" 12mm would bust your knukles for sure

That darned metric system

If your 13 oz 357 is a S&W 360, note that it requires a minimum 120 gr. bullet.

I don't know if JT answered part of your question with that but, if you can go under 120gn try the 110 gr Gold Dot for .38. Part number 4009.

Can't say anything about the lightweight S&W, but my Black Hawk has both 357 and 9mm cylinders. At close range, the 9's have similar accuracy to the 357. Lee Jurras made light weight bullets popular in handguns back when I was just learning to shoot handguns. Some of our more modern bullets are changing the way many think about sectional density requirements and penetration. Some problems with 9mm light bullets are that they are so short that they are difficult to crimp and for those of us with thick fingers, they can be a bit difficult to handle. I only load them in 9mm cases because of crimping issues.
Bfly

quote:

Originally posted by preventec47:

quote:

Originally posted by Jpat:
If you want to shoot 90gr pills, buy a .380.
You will loose penetration and the shock factor of a heavier bullet.
I tried this w/ a 9x19 years ago. I loaded up a bunch of 90gr, they were hot. Penetration on wet phone books sucked. You also need to remember that the pressure that the frame will take is higher w/ a smaller high velocity bullet. Recoil may be less, but pressure may increase. Look at the small frame S&W Model 19. S&W recommends 158gr.bullets. 125gr will crack the frame w/ extended use. Although felt recoil may be less, you may be generating extreme pressure.

Jpat. you really have no idea what internal
ballistics are all about do you. Then why
do you post ? ? ?
Your statements are possibly the goofiest
I have ever read in a forum of this sort.
Heavy bullet shock ? ?
Smaller bullets higher pressures ? ?
Please give us all a break.

Get a grip, preventec47. Just because Jpat does not know what he is talking about does not justify insulting him. While he may deserve it for spreading misinformation, the cure is not bashing.

Perhaps it would be better to educate him (and the rest of us as well).

I know enough about general physics and internal ballistics to see some of his errors, but probably not all of them. What can you contribute?

Lost Sheep

quote:

Originally posted by Lost Sheep:

Get a grip, preventec47. Just because Jpat does not know what he is talking about does not justify insulting him. While he may deserve it for spreading misinformation, the cure is not bashing.

Save the bashing for the political forum...

quote:

Originally posted by Jpat:
If you want to shoot 90gr pills, buy a .380.
You will loose penetration and the shock factor of a heavier bullet.
I tried this w/ a 9x19 years ago. I loaded up a bunch of 90gr, they were hot. Penetration on wet phone books sucked. You also need to remember that the pressure that the frame will take is higher w/ a smaller high velocity bullet. Recoil may be less, but pressure may increase. Look at the small frame S&W Model 19. S&W recommends 158gr.bullets. 125gr will crack the frame w/ extended use. Although felt recoil may be less, you may be generating extreme pressure.

According to one of my loading manuals (the one close at hand) the 380 ACP and 38 Special, with very similar pressures (around 15,000 psi), deliver 90 grain bullets at 950 fps and 1300 fps, respectively.

The K-frame Model 19 is not small, however. The J-frame is the small one.

I wonder, with your 9mm Parabellum (9x19), what kind of velocities were you getting that gave you disappointing penetration? And did you think it might have been the bullet construction rather than the speed.

I had always heard that the problem with the 125 grain magnum and longevity is the 40,000 psi and the erosion that velocity in the 1,800 fps range. Not the pressure, not the weight of the bullet. The energy. And a high-energy 200 grain bullet will destroy a light-frame gun just as quickly as a high-energy 110 grainer.

More fully informed experts than I can chime in to fill in my gaps in knowledge, and please feel free to educate me where I am wrong. (It has been known to happen.) Just do me the courtesy of telling me just where it is that I am wrong. (The friction of minds in conflict produces the spark that lights the lamp of knowledge.-Can anyone identify the source of that quote?)

Lost Sheep.

caveat:
Remember, believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you get from the internet.

Always check out any new information you get from the internet (or anywhere) with an independent source for confirmation before you rely on it where misinformation could cost you.

Also, I don't know your experience level, so take great pains to be very specific and to prevent multiple (conflicting) interpretations. Also, readers of all experience levels are reading.

Depending on the exact groove dia. you are likely to get very poor accuracy w/ a jacketed bullet that much smaller. If yo uwant light wt JHP, there are many 110grJHP made for the 38sp/357mag. I think it's the wrong way to go ina lt.wt. fixed sighted snub, but that is JMO. I would instead load 158grLSWCHP to about 900fps. Easy to shoot, quite effectice.

The issue at hand gentlemen is maximizing power
while minimizing recoil in a crazy light
weight pistol of 13 oz for a 357 mag.
Taken to an extreme we know the .223 has
great killing power with only a 50 gr bullet
because it has high velocity and very very
little recoil I simply want to head in that
direction with the use of 90 gr bullets and
take advantage of the hi bore pressures
of the 357 mag. to give relatively extreme
velocities. Sure I can use down loaded
38 specials but they are the same as poking
a hole in you with a skewer. A lighter bullet
traveling at sizzling speeds is going to
create immense shock at the entrance site
and I dont care if it is frangible, I dont
want a pass though anyway. Take a look
at the powder metal bullets for Self Defense
and try tell me they dont work.
Anyone that wants an advanced degree in internal
ballistics, google Powley Computer and spend
an hour.
Oh and let me remind, there is no such thing
as accuracy with a two inch barrel. Ten inch
groups at ten feet are good.

quote:

If your 13 oz 357 is a S&W 360, note that it requires a minimum 120 gr. bullet.

=============

I dont get it, why would any gun except recoil
based auto loaders have any kind of minimum weight ?
You could wad up a piece of aluminum
foil and shoot it if you wanted to. Matter
of fact, if I could find some aluminum
bullets that weighed only 50 grains I would
use them.
Now there is an idea, if you can cast molten
lead in molds you can do the same with aluminum.
I have actually heard of aluminum bullets before
but I cant remember where. Military ammo I think.
Some blistering hot velocities as I recall.
There was some mention of dealing with small
short bullets, one possibility I have not looked
into is the pure copper bullets that are
bigger for the same weight. I might need to
look around for copper .380 bullets

I should add also that on another forum a guy
has said he has been shooting small .380 bullets
in 357 mag for years with no problem.

In theory it sounds like it might work. I know a 55 gn .223 round is "lethal" but I still prefer a 147 gn .30 round.

To stay on topic here, I think a turned aluminum bullet would be easier to find. I just started a seach for solid copper and found these from magtech, 95 grain solid copper and loaded .357ammo:

http://www.magtechammunition.c...re/p14details561.php

http://www.magtechammunition.c...re/p14details570.php

I guess it's not just a theory.

If one is using 355 jacketed bullets one has to use a 9mm expander other wise the bullets are to loose in the case. I found the accuracy to be the same.

quote:

Originally posted by preventec47:

quote:

If your 13 oz 357 is a S&W 360, note that it requires a minimum 120 gr. bullet.

=============

I dont get it, why would any gun except recoil
based auto loaders have any kind of minimum weight ?
You could wad up a piece of aluminum
foil and shoot it if you wanted to. Matter
of fact, if I could find some aluminum
bullets that weighed only 50 grains I would
use them.
Now there is an idea, if you can cast molten
lead in molds you can do the same with aluminum.
I have actually heard of aluminum bullets before
but I cant remember where. Military ammo I think.
Some blistering hot velocities as I recall.
There was some mention of dealing with small
short bullets, one possibility I have not looked
into is the pure copper bullets that are
bigger for the same weight. I might need to
look around for copper .380 bullets

I should add also that on another forum a guy
has said he has been shooting small .380 bullets
in 357 mag for years with no problem.

This warning is stamped on the barrel. I have heard several reasons for this. Not sure if any are correct.

1. Pressure spike occurs faster with the lighter bullets, stressing the frame.
2. Gases are hotter with the lighter bullets (?) which gives rise to cutting of the frame.
3. Lighter bullets are more likely to "jump" the crimp and back out.

Again, these are all things I have read on the net. Take them for what they are worth which is nothing.

Regardless, S&W had some reason for stamping all of their scandium J-framed 357's with this warning.

quote:

This warning is stamped on the barrel. I have heard several reasons for this. Not sure if any are correct.

1. Pressure spike occurs faster with the lighter bullets, stressing the frame.
2. Gases are hotter with the lighter bullets (?) which gives rise to cutting of the frame.
3. Lighter bullets are more likely to "jump" the crimp and back out.
S&W had some reason for stamping all of their scandium J-framed 357's with this warning.

This is a real puzzle to me. #1. Pressure spikes
are dependent on the gunpowder selection.
#2 the temperature of the gasses is also dependent on the load and powder selection.
#3 simply cannot be true as with lighter weight
there is less inertia.

I didnt know about the warning and I would sure
like to hear S&Ws explanation.

quote:

Originally posted by preventec47:

quote:

This warning is stamped on the barrel. I have heard several reasons for this. Not sure if any are correct.

1. Pressure spike occurs faster with the lighter bullets, stressing the frame.
2. Gases are hotter with the lighter bullets (?) which gives rise to cutting of the frame.
3. Lighter bullets are more likely to "jump" the crimp and back out.
S&W had some reason for stamping all of their scandium J-framed 357's with this warning.

This is a real puzzle to me. #1. Pressure spikes
are dependent on the gunpowder selection.
#2 the temperature of the gasses is also dependent on the load and powder selection.
#3 simply cannot be true as with lighter weight
there is less inertia.

I didnt know about the warning and I would sure
like to hear S&Ws explanation.

Found the answer per Owner's manual at S&W website http://www.smith-wesson.com/wc..._Revolver_Manual.pdf:

CAUTION:
Do not use Magnum loadings with bullet weights of less than 120
grains - This will reduce the possibility of premature erosion in
titanium alloy cylinders.

I notice that the M&P360 http://www.smith-wesson.com/wc...odel%20M&P%20360.pdf uses a stainless steel cylinder and does not carry this warning.

A lot of the felt recoil is generated by the exiting gas. If you use a max charge of fast burning powder, (Red Dot) you will get much less recoil, reduced flash, reduced bang, reduced cost and yet you don,t loose much bullet velocity in a short barreled gun compared to the slower burning powders. Also in my SP-101 the 9mm bullets shoot OK. They lose a little accuracy but do better than some rot gut factory ammo. The drawback is that without a crimp ring the bullet will slide in the case when the gun recoils and thus must be loaded and shot one at a time.

quote:

Originally posted by jtinidaho:
CAUTION:
Do not use Magnum loadings with bullet weights of less than 120 grains - This will reduce the possibility of premature erosion in
titanium alloy cylinders. ...

I would think that unless you had enough Velocity to "Force" them to Obturate, the actual Accuracy would be hit-or-miss.

But, worst of all, if they do not Obturate, then you can get Blow-By which has the potential to act as very Tiny Cutting Torches. I can't speak for the Titanium Allow cylinder, which S&W did above, but I'd for sure be concerned about the Barrel and the Blow-By.
-----

Used to be a guy come to the Carolinas from out West each summer to visit his daughter. He always coordinated the trip to coincide with a HUGE Gun Show in Charlotte. Then he'd end up at the Range I frequented and is where I'd originally met him.

He showed up one day with a Revolver similar to the one preventec47 is asking about. Or, it may have had a Titanium Frame as well, just not sure. I do know he had picked up a box of Fed 125gr JHPs. For those of you who do not know, those are some really Hot cartridges.

We talked a bit and he asked if I'd like to shoot it. Told him I'd pass, but I should have some nice "light" Target Loads in 357Mag cases which were basically 148gr Wad Cutters at a 38Spl load equivalent. Looked through everything and I'd left them at home.

So, he lights off the first Fed 125gr JHP and darned if he didn't nearly cut the 10x out of the 25yd Target. I looked over at him and he had a strange look and was staring at his hand. He did fire two more, didn't even hit the Berm, and then told me he would go back to the Gun Show the next day and trade it off. Never bothered to shoot the other cartridges in the cylinder.

If I'd had the Target Loads, he might have liked it, but who knows.

Anyway, best of luck with your Revolver.

quote:

My reason for asking is I want to shoot a 90gr speer "9mm" (.355) jacketed bullet in a 38 or 357 magnum pistol.

Been there, seen it, done it. In 1982! Twenty-seven years plus ago! From my "Reloading Notebook":

357 MAGNUM. Bullet - Speer 88 JHP (For 380 Auto). Powder - Hercules 2400.

18.0 grains: A good accurate load in S & W Model 27. Very accurate, but shoots extremely low. Cases most easy to extract six at a time, falling out of chamber. Needs a good crimp no unburnt powder problems.

19.0 grains: Again good accuracy. Better than 18.0 grains in all respects - and shooting less low than the lighter charge. cases still easy to extract. A very small amount of unburnt powder. (Note: Standard NOT Magnum primers used.

20.0 grains: Chronograph tested on 8 April 1982 through Smith and Wesson Model 27...and what a disappointment! Velocity of 1500 fps. Large amount of "spitting", primers flat. NOT TO BE EXCEEDED. A compressed charge anyway. 19.0 grains adequate.

Thoughts of today 2010: The "spitting" is of course the bits and pieces that come out from the cylinder barrel gap. Another poster on the thread called it "blow by". I had over the years two S & W "N" Frame revolvers. From the date this one is that with a six inch barrel.

Hope it helps! And Although these loads were safe in MY pistol they may well be dangerous in yours so are given for an account of what I once tried not as a recommendation for you to try!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
So, he lights off the first Fed 125gr JHP and darned if he didn't nearly cut the 10x out of the 25yd Target. I looked over at him and he had a strange look and was staring at his hand. He did fire two more, didn't even hit the Berm, and then told me he would go back to the Gun Show the next day and trade it off. Never bothered to shoot the other cartridges in the cylinder.

If I'd had the Target Loads, he might have liked it, but who knows.

Anyway, best of luck with your Revolver.

That certainly illustrates one of my favorite sayings, "No one flinches on the FIRST shot."

Thanks

Lost Sheep

quote:

Originally posted by preventec47:
The issue at hand gentlemen is maximizing power while minimizing recoil in a crazy light weight pistol of 13 oz for a 357 mag. Taken to an extreme we know the .223 has great killing power with only a 50 gr bullet because it has high velocity and very very little recoil I simply want to head in that direction with the use of 90 gr bullets and take advantage of the hi bore pressures of the 357 mag. to give relatively extreme velocities. Sure I can use down loaded 38 specials but they are the same as poking a hole in you with a skewer. A lighter bullet traveling at sizzling speeds is going to create immense shock at the entrance site and I dont care if it is frangible, I dont want a pass though anyway. Take a look at the powder metal bullets for Self Defense and try tell me they dont work.

Anyone that wants an advanced degree in internal ballistics, google Powley Computer and spend an hour.

Oh and let me remind, there is no such thing as accuracy with a two inch barrel. Ten inch groups at ten feet are good.

Please allow me to differ, preventec47. Setting aside your statements of fact that, in many circles, are in dispute. (The killing power of the 50 grain 223 and the effect of (or the disputed existence of) immense shock from any bullet fired from a handgun length barrel, I can state for proven fact that a 2.5" barrel can deliver accuracy equal to an 8" barrel. Mount a scope on the frame of a Dan Wesson (or a laser). Mount the 8" barrel and shoot for accuracy. Swap the barrel for the 2.5". Using the same scope, shoot for accuracy. Shooting Times did a similar experiment with a Colt Detective many years ago (sorry, I don't have the article). The fact is that 2" of rifling is plenty enough to stabilize a bullet. The only things a long barrel gives you are: Different weight and weight distriburion, (without a scope) a longer sight radius, less muzzle blast and more velocity. I will leave it to others to figure out how to rank the bottom of those factors, but I will testify that the sight radius is the top. Take that away and there IS such a thing as accuracy with a two inch barrel.

I will grant that it is difficult to achieve with the human eye and the human hand, but that has nothing to do with the barrel length.

By the way, thanks for suggesting the Powley reference. Very interesting. I have not had the time to devote to proper study yet.

Others have weighed in on jtinidaho's three questions (including you, preventec47, and you are absolutely correct about the intertia):

quote:

1. Pressure spike occurs faster with the lighter bullets, stressing the frame.

My best guess is that if this is true, it is true because of the powder used under commercial loadings for the lighter bullets, not because the bullet itself is lighter.

quote:

2. Gases are hotter with the lighter bullets (?) which gives rise to cutting of the frame.

(see my best guess for #1 above)

quote:

3. Lighter bullets are more likely to "jump" the crimp and back out.

Newton's physical principals state with certainty that lighter bullets are LESS likely to jump crimp (if all other things are equal). It takes mass to have the inertia required to jump the crimp. Lighter guns and heavier bullets are the combination which requires worry about a crimp losing its grip on a bullet.

However, lighter bullets DO require a firm crimp for a completely different reason. Smokeless powders require high pressure to burn properly. A light bullet by itself may not have enough mass to develop the inertia to maintain that pressure. So, a good crimp keeps the bullet in the case a little longer, so proper pressure builds up behind the bullet.

jtinidaho, thanks for posting the quote from S&W's manual.

quote:

CAUTION:
Do not use Magnum loadings with bullet weights of less than 120 grains - This will reduce the possibility of premature erosion in titanium alloy cylinders.

It is still a little puzzling to me. Erosion in the CYLINDER? I know the titanium metal's erosion tolerance is different from regular steel or stainless steel, but I would expect forcing cone erosion to be a concern also. Of course, if titanium is a LOT softer than steel, then maybe it is just the cylinder that is at risk. If the 120 grain minimum in magnum loads does not apply to regular cylinders, then there's our answer. It ain't the bullet, it's the chamber metal (and the hot gasses).

Thanks for reading. What was the original question? Oh, yeah 9mm in .357s. We seem to have morphed the question from considering smaller diameter to considering smaller mass. Such are threads.

Lost Sheep

quote:

Originally posted by preventec47:
Just tell me honestly OXO that you know for
sure that you wont feel a 357 mag shot
from a 13 ounce pistol. If the recoil is so
bad that it renders you ineffective, the
whole point of the SD effort is lost.
Others have said the light bullets work
ok as long as you crimp em smaller with
9mm tools. If I have to, I can even
swage them to be a little bigger in a special
bullet die. I think a 90 gr bullet at
close range traveling at 1500 fps will
be very effective if I can hold onto the gun.

I absolutely guarantee you that if you're shooting to defend your life, you won't notice the recoil, the report, or the flash. You'll be so damned focused on defense that everything else will be secondary. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

The other story is, you'll get a better load if you use the correct diameter bullet. If it weren't so, .357/38 bullets would be .355" just like 9mm.

120 gr. bullet specification would likely be to provide sufficient back pressure in the gun to fully ignite the powder. Back pressure is fundamental to smokeless powder function, and the same reason you want to use a bullet that fits in the barrel as intended/designed.

Quote :If you want to shoot 90gr pills, buy a .380.
You will loose penetration and the shock factor of a heavier bullet.
I tried this w/ a 9x19 years ago. I loaded up a bunch of 90gr, they were hot. Penetration on wet phone books sucked. You also need to remember that the pressure that the frame will take is higher w/ a smaller high velocity bullet. Recoil may be less, but pressure may increase. Look at the small frame S&W Model 19. S&W recommends 158gr.bullets. 125gr will crack the frame w/ extended use. Although felt recoil may be less, you may be generating extreme pressure.

You will loose penetration and the shock factor of a heavier bullet. :Fact

I loaded up a bunch of 90gr, they were hot. Penetration on wet phone books sucked : Fact

Excessively high velocity of light weight bullets will cause decreased penetration.

You also need to remember that the pressure that the frame will take is higher w/ a smaller high velocity bullet (loaded to high pressures )
: Fact

Recoil may be less, but pressure may increase ( with light bullet high pressure loads ) : Fact

Although felt recoil may be less, you may be generating extreme pressure. : Fact

S&W specificaly specifies that some small framed light weight revolvers not use 125gr. magnum loads. This is well known.

Please tell me were this man is wrong?

Now for the 90 gr. jacketed .355 bullet.

Don't.

Do not shoot a high velocity bullet under 125 grs. in a S&W small framed light weight revolver.Period.

To load it ( 357 or 38 ) you would have to use 9mm or 380 dies,this will hold the bullet but cause excessive necking down of the case, and that is only if you neck a one caliber length from the case mouth. If you try to size the entire case it will not fit in the die.

If you fire this under sized bullet through the gun the bullet may cant on entering the forcing cone and this will distort the bullet causing poor accuracy.Also the sub caliber in comparison to the larger bore diameter may cause gas flow around the bullet due to it not bumping up to engage the bore.This will also cause poor accuracy.

Firing a light weight high velocity/pressure load in any revolver, over time will cause increased gas cutting of the top strap.

Performance and accuracy of any revolver depends heavily on the diameter of the bullet in comparison to the cylinders chamber exit ,the closer the fit the better the accuracy and velocity performance.

Oscar, I have a comment and a question for you. Thanks for your post and welcome to the forum.

quote:

Originally posted by oscar:
... Also the sub caliber in comparison to the larger bore diameter may cause gas flow around the bullet...

I understand that the gas flow around the bullet also tends to erode the bore. Another reason to shoot only properly sized bullets. Also, if lead bullets are used, the hot gasses also contribute to heavy leading.

quote:

Originally posted by oscar:
Firing a light weight high velocity/pressure load in any revolver, over time will cause increased gas cutting of the top strap.

I don't understand how gasses escaping the barrel/cylinder gap from behind a lightweight bullet are more erosive than those same gasses escaping the b/c gap from behind a heavier bullet. If the temperature or pressure is higher, how does it get that way?

Can you explain, please?

Lost Sheep

Light weight high velocity loads normally use heavy charges in comparison to heavy bullet loads.This increases pressure/temperature along with the increase of gas escape velocity upon exit of the cylinder.Thus greater gas cutting of the top strap.

Thankyou for the welcome.

quote:

Originally posted by oscar:
Light weight high velocity loads normally use heavy charges in comparison to heavy bullet loads.This increases pressure/temperature along with the increase of gas escape velocity upon exit of the cylinder.Thus greater gas cutting of the top strap.

So, the same temperature and pressure behind a heavy bullet would produce substantially sthe same erosion effects as the lightweight (or, in other words, it ain't the weight, it's the heat)

Lost Sheep

Light bullet,heavy charge,higher velocity.Higher velocity,higher gas escape velocity upon exit of cylinder,higher velocity increases temperature,greater erosion.

To add on from your last post. The answer is yes.If you were to increase the heavy bullet to a much higher velocity it would produce the same erosion effects.

But,that of coarse would be dangerous.

quote:

To load it ( 357 or 38 ) you would have to use 9mm or 380 dies,this will hold the bullet but cause excessive necking down of the case, and that is only if you neck a one caliber length from the case mouth. If you try to size the entire case it will not fit in the die.

Can't say that my experience of doing it supports this. I used standard RCBS 38 Special dies backed off 1/10" for 357 Magnum.

It is only two thou difference and I doubt if the machining differences in the expander and the natural spring back in the brass case won't cover it.

It was a long time ago but I did not find any seating or retention issues from memory of it. These were being 88 JHP for 380 Auto of 355" size hence my post.

Nobody else seems to have contributed that has actually done it! Others at my gun club used to experiment with standard 9mm Luger FMJ bullets for falling plates and skittles.

These were about 115 grains to 125 grains weight and .355". I didn't so have not posted any load information.

We all just used standard 38 Special dies backed off 1/10" for 357 Magnum with no problems.

Hello enfieldspares,

You are correct that it can be done.I have gone through the practice of trying long ago.With an over abundance of 115gr. 9mm bullets along with buckets of .38 brass on hand I thought I had it made.

I noticed you have a M27,also my favorite along with my M28's.I found that depending on brass used that their was a possibility of bullet setback in some circumstances with as little as thumb pressure,this can be averted to some extant by not using an expander die and loading after sizing.Also I experienced some bullet forward movement with heavy loads in the chamber, this was only averted by regulating these bullets to light loads.

My accuracy was indifferent, so I stopped the practice altogether.

It can be done but I would not recommend it as long as proper diameter bullets are available.

I'm assuming that your S&W Airlight has a really short barrel (2" or less) and you are trying to develope this load for SD use.

I don't thnk you can get there from here if my assumptions above are correct.

I've used left over 9mm bullets in .357 and .38 SPL pistols in the past..... it's not a very good idea. Accuracy wasn't that good. I certainly wouldn't go out and buy a box of 9mm bullets to develope a .357 mag. load.

I think you would be better off with a bullet like the Speer 158gr LSWCHP with a load of fast burning powder like Bullseye.

quote:

I think a 90 gr bullet at
close range traveling at 1500 fps will
be very effective if I can hold onto the gun.

You are NOT going to get this kind of velocity out of a short (2" bbl. and less). I would guess about 1,200fps is what you could expect at best from a stubby barrel with the 90 grain 9mm bullet.

Sorry, but that's the reality of the situation.