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I have a few questions regarding bullet seating depth custom to my rifle which is a Rem. 700 Police in .308 win. Using an RCBS precision mic, I get readings of anywhere from .157 to .159 for determining maximum bullet seating depth. In order for me to get one of my bullets to a COAL that will fit into the magazine, I need to seat it to where the mic reads -.066 which when you add the two togeter, comes to .223! This is almost 1/4" that the bullet needs to jump before it contacts the lands of the rifling! Two of the other bullets I'm loading need to be seated to a reading of -.020 in the mic which still puts the bullet having to jump .179 to the lands. If I remember correctly, my last bolt action I had almost 1/8" to play with before fitting in the magazine became an issue and this would allow me to get the ogive to within .020 or .030 from the lands. My first question is this: Does this sound normal or could there be a possible factory defect with my rifle? With this rifle, I have loaded rounds that were too long for my mag where I had to feed them one at a time into the chamber and got teriffic accuracy. The loads that fit the mag are not giving me terrible accuracy. Since I'm wanting to acheive superb accuracy, am I going to have to live with the fact that I can only load one at a time? Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! | ||
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Sorry for the typo in my post. I meant to say the loads that fit the mag are giving me terrible accuracy. | |||
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can a different magazine be put in? | |||
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It's not a clip but a hinged floor plate. One thing I was wondering is if the magazine area can be lengthened to accept longer cartriges. Has anyone ever heard of any gunsmiths doing this? | |||
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But my favorite difference is the magazine boxes. The Remington's magazine box for .308 is right to the limits of space in the action. The Winchester "short" action was designed recently, and they have had the advantage of learning from Remington's errors… the M70 action in .308 is slightly longer, and the magazine box has a filler in the back that can be removed. My smith charges $30 to remove the filler, silver solder the face plate from the filler to the back of the magazine box, and trim the bolt stop. This allows feeding longer handloads (up to 3.1") allowing me to seat to the leade, and still use the magazine. Can't do this with the Remington 700 series... you would have to build the gun on the 700-LA, And then you'd have too much space... about 3.5" These differences might be important to some, and just be academic chatter to others... If you have one and are happy with it, don't sell it to get the other... shoot the hell out of it! Paul "Pablito" Coburn. Paul Coburn <condor@mags.net> CT USA - Monday, December 28, 1998 at 23:58:43 (EST coppied from another site | |||
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post above copied from another site | |||
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I'm confused. How can you have one bullet .250 off the lands and another that is .179 yet they both fit the magazine? Since you're kinda locked in with what you have to work with as far as the rifle is concerned, you have to look for an accuracy node somewhere else. Like in a change in bullets, a change in powders, a change in seating depth --in your case, further away from the lands. Weatherby achieved his high velocity while maintainig acceptable pressure by having a long leap to the lands. While Weatherbys aren't particularly noted for bench rest accuracy, there are many that will dispute that. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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You can have a gunsmith put in a Wyatt's extended magazine. | |||
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STR8: In answer to your question regarding a possible factory defect, I would say probably not. I have an early '90s vintage M700BDL. The magazine allows me a max oal of 2.800". Anything over that will bind in the magazine. When the rifle was new I measured the bullet jump for half a dozen different bullets, 3 match and 3 hunting. The shortest jump was with the 165 gr. Hornady PSP, at 0.084". The longest was with the Speer 168 gr. HPbt-Match, at 0.197", which is similar to what you report. For the other match bullets jump was around 0.165". My experience with other M700s, a push feed Winchester M70, and a Savage 112, is that it is not uncommon to have a bullet jump in the order of 0.2" for some spitzer bullets, whether governed by the magazine length or the need for some bullet bearing surface in the case mouth. This hasn't stopped them from shooting well with the right bullet/powder combinations. Cheers, Al | |||
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Personally I have not had much luck with attempting to determine precise measurements with the RCBS Prec. Mic system. Suggest you try one of the Sinclair hex tools with various caliber holes in it and a set of calipers to determine bullet seating depth as per your throat of the rifle. Davidson Comparator also works well for just a few bucks. In any event, your PSS normally delivers fine accuracy dependent on which bullet you are using pretty much regardless of the seating depth. These rifles are used by LE quite a lot for "serious" application and don't know of many departments that would use reloads of any sort. Std. load is Fedeal Match 308 and they are magazine length seating wise, or 2.800" and are generally sub minute guns. It could be that your rifle does have an excessively long throat and would determine just what it actually is and if it is excessive, any good 'smith can remove barrel, recut chamber/throat to your choice. If it is a new rifle, Remington will work with you, but don't count on quick turn around time. Again, those rifles are not known to be poor shooters for "off the shelf" and would double check your readings, just a suggestion. | |||
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Hey Beeman, You really do need to get someone to let you "borrow" one of the Bullet/Case Length "Thingies(or Thingys)", then you can see for yourself how folks come up with that kind of variation. I'd recommend a good supply of Liquid Corn on hand to help sort it out.  ----- Hey str8razor, I've missed where you said what Bullet you are using. I'll guess it is a very High B.C. Bullet(aka very l-o-n-g Pointy Ogive). One of the HUGE benefits of those kind of Bullets is they do not get near the Lands in "ALL" rifles. The good news though is that even if they jump a long way to the Lands, you can still get excellent accuracy with them. There is nothing wrong with your rifle's Chamber or distance to the Lead. One of my rifles uses a 35cal bullet which is 0.268" Off-the-Lands(yes, over 1/4"). The last time I shot it on paper, I put 9 of them inside a 1" square over the course of a day's time. If however you do want to be closer to the lands with your particular rifle, you can use a Lower B.C. Bullet and probably do just that. I'd also recommend leaving the Precision Mic "Thingy" out of the way and use the old reliable, never fail Cleaning Rod method. As a nice side benefit, that link also tells you how to convert from OCL to ODL which will help you Seat the Bullets at ANY Depth you desire - without a lot of hassle. Best of luck to you. | |||
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I would seat your bullets as long as possible and still have them fit in the magazine. On 3 three remington 700s I ahve owned in .308 I have been able to go to about 2.825 and still have them feed. IIRC correctly the mag bog sheet metal is relatively thick. You can thin it down front and back with a dremel tool and pick up about another 25/1000 in COL. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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If you have to have it touch you could have a gunsmith turn the barrel and re chamber it with a match reamer. I had the same problem with a old 788. I finally got good groups by trying diffrent bullets and powders. It still has a very long throat but shoots good. Good luck. 1 shot 1 thrill | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Bullet seating depth for Rem 700 in .308win?
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