I purchased some of the subject shells prinmarily for the AP bullets but would like to reuse the powder for reloading some .308. I am consistently getting 59.1 grains of powder fron each shell. I checked my Lee reloading manual for 7.62 X 54 and no combination of projectiles and powders recommended 59.1 grains. The powder is extruded in form. What would be the closest American powder as a guide for reloading?

7,62*54r have a .311 bullet.

I think your out of luck. The powder could be anything since it is a Communist-Bloc powder. The bullets are going to measure .311 inches. So I hope you are not trying to use them in a .308.

What weight bullets were these that you pulled?
Were they the 147gr?

Getting 59 grs. of extruded powder in that case is some trick. It must be super dense .

iirc, i was seeing ~54gr when i was pulling them, and dumping the powder ... i would NEVER reuse the powder in the 440 round packs... wide different loads, and several powder types..

in short, don't try it

R U OUT OF YOUR F***IN MIND...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
R U OUT OF YOUR F***IN MIND...

what mike said!

I confess that I am frugal.....but I have never been cheap enough to risk my eyesight and a few fingers to avoid buying powder.

Not all lots of those cartridges are loaded with inferior "comblok" powders. Depending on the country in which they were manufactured, they may very well be loaded with very high quality Nobel powders.

How consistent are the weights in the cartridges you are pulling down? If the weights are consistent within .2 or .3 of a grain or thereabouts, it indicates very high quality control on the assembly line. That suggests a similar effort in general in the manufacturing process of that lot of ammo.

Many Americans don't realize it, but a lot of the Com Blok ammunition efforts were top notch products. For many years during the cold war, the Com Blok countries manufactured .22 RF ammo FAR superior to ANYTHING any western country could or did produce. That is one reason the Russians commonly kicked western ass in the Olympics and elsewhere.

When Federal brought out their really good early Gold Medal Match .22 RF ammo, it was an attempt to apply things they reverse engineered from some swiped Russian ammo, to help our national teams in international competition. Costs wiped out that program, but the earlist lots Federal produced were really outstanding.

Anyway I have used powders pulled down from ammo from all over the world, for many, many years, with no problems at all.

A given bore diameter, bullet weight, bullet diameter, bullet material/construction, and case capacity will indicate to a person about how much powder will be appropriate. Then he can start on the 10% low side with a charge and work his way up. He should be doing that with every rifle anyway, even with American cannistered powder.

Also, as no one makes solid steel or tungsten rifle bullets, it is safe for experienced handloaders to use slightly (.001"-to-.003") oversized cup-n'core bullets, SO LONG AS THEY DROP THEIR CHARGES OF POWDER ACCORDINGLY.

One should NEVER try to determine and regularly use maximum charges with such components, but in my opinion they have to be a bit of a fool to do that anyway, with any combo of even loading manual recommended domestic components.

BTW, for those inexperienced handloaders reading this, let me recommend two things:

1. Don't use ANYONE else's loads without starting low and working up to that level in your own rifle. It doesn't matter how long your advisor has been using it in his rifle...his rifle isn't yours. It may be absolutely safe in yours, or it may be a recipe for a fragmentation grenade.

2. By hook or by crook, get a copy of Charles Newton's article "Choosing a Smokeless Powder" which was first published in the Outdoor Life magazine edition dated July 1916. I believe it is the clearest, most understandable (yet brief) explanation EVER written of what to consider in choosing a most nearly ideal powder for any and every rifle. It also appears verbatim starting on page 315 of Bruce M. Jennings, Jr.'s classic book "Charles Newton, Father of high Velocity".

quote:

Originally posted by milt:
I purchased some of the subject shells prinmarily for the AP bullets but would like to reuse the powder for reloading some .308. I am consistently getting 59.1 grains of powder fron each shell. I checked my Lee reloading manual for 7.62 X 54 and no combination of projectiles and powders recommended 59.1 grains. The powder is extruded in form. What would be the closest American powder as a guide for reloading?

I've pressure tested numerous 7.62x54R milsurp lots of ammuntion with 46 - 49.5 gr of extruded powder under the 145 - 150 gr "L" bullets. If that's the weight of bullets you pulled then the powder is close to the burning range of 4895. If you've enough of it to use then I'd suggest using the 4895 loading data and starting at the suggested start loads and work up. Do not assume it to be 4895 but only to be of the same general burning rate.

Many of us use pull down or buy surplus powders and develop loads in other cartridges with it. Simply be cautious with it just like with any new powder and work up the load.

Larry Gibson

quote:

That is one reason the Russians commonly kicked western ass in the Olympics and elsewhere.

Err? No! They actually used RE-PACKAGED Eley Tenex ammunition in Small Bore Rifle as the fired cases would be found afterwards on the firing point.

Er - wrong. The Russians did use mostly their own ammo, which WAS superb. Proved by tests to be better for a decade or so than any Eley ever made.

While it is true that SOME rifles SHOT Eley ammo better during that period, that is true with ANY make of ammo. The Russians, not being stupid, tested each of their team rifles with a great deal of ammo, so it is quite possible they had the odd one in which they shot re-packaged Eley in competition. But generally speaking, their own ammo was as good as it gets, better in many rifles than anything else.

Xenophobia and/or blind national pride are not good tools in a world class shooter's kit. Observation and testing are.

Eley is now once again probably the best in the world in a large number of .22 LR rifles, now that the Russians' best and early Federal Gold Medal Match are no longer around. That's a return to the way it was BEFORE the Russkies developed their top-notch stuff.

You can believe whatever you want. It won't change history.

And it doesn't chage my point, which is that there was a great deal of excellent ammo which was manufactured behind the "iron curtain", like it or not.

Whether the Soviet powder is good or poorer quality we are likely only talking about a few hundred rds worth of powder. By the time you work up a safe and accurate load its mostly gone. When you factor in the risks it's not worth it.

Buy Varget. Use published load data. Be happy.

KB

Russian rifle barrels and ammo are like T/C Contender barrels. Nothing is writen in stone. 7.62x54 barrels can be anywere from .308 to .317+. I had mod. 48 that was .316/17".