Friend of mine is interested in getting a progressive reloader

9mm/45acp & 223/308 is what he needs to reload.

What are peoples views on the best combination of:

- Cost
- Ease of Operation
- Caliber change

Mike, I have the Lee Loadmaster and for the money it cant be beat

Yeah Yeah Yeah I know the Hornady ammo factory and the Dillon 650 are in a class by themself but...

The Loadmaster has a much faster primer loading dispenser

Also when you buy it it comes as a kit with dies, shellplate and powder throw everything!

There will be those who will say its junk and all assembly is required but for less than $250 it cant be beat.

I have a cornucopia of brands on my bench from Dillon to Lee and everything in between. I buy my equipment only after I feel the value is good.....I am not a brand dedicated buyer

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
.

What are peoples views on the best combination of:

- Cost
- Ease of Operation
- Caliber change

I was considering this a while back and the older Hornady progressives kind of caught my eye as a strong press for a bargian. Never used one, but for what they sell for thesedays they look to me to be a real well made piece of equipment. Lots of folks seem to like the Lee stuff as well, but the Hornady just appeared to me to be a better press.

I recently decided to buy a progressive press. I found a head to head review of the Lee Loadmaster, Hornady LNL and Dillon 650 on the web by someone who owned all three: http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/...ornadyComparison.pdf

Based on the review, the Lee seems to be an excellent progressive for the money. I went with the Hornady LNL based primarily on this review. I like it a lot due to it's precision, quick changeover capability and easy storage features.

I have found the LNL is easier to use than my old Dillon 650. I'm quite satisfied with it.

Yes but do you enjoy those primer tubes and loading them.

I didn't like that aspect of the Hornady or the Dillon

Hornady is the superior press regardless of what the advertising hype will tell you. I have used my Hornady Pro Jector, a Dillon 650, and a Lee; the Hornady is the best. The Lee is hard to make work, and the Dillon suffers from that removable head which is not rigid at all. I am sure the current Lock N Load would be even better than my pro jector.
Loading primer tubes? Fast and easy with the Frankford Arsenal vibrating tool I have; a few short buzzes and you have a tube loaded.

I cannot say I enjoy filling primer tubes but I liken it to taking out the trash....

I'm familiar with the Lee primer tray system as I have a Lee classic turret press. I like the tray feature a lot compared to primer tubes. I also like the Lee powder measures and use them with my Hornady LNL.

One thing that caused me to not go the Loadmaster route was reports of wear parts in the indexing system that required occasional replacement at out of pocket expense. These comments came from people who ran high volumes through them.

BTW, if someone does not load more than +/-200 rounds of pistol a month, a Lee classic turret is far less expensive and a reliable tool.

Oh so you have to buy more equipment to load the tube easy

Lee hard to use? I've heard this before and wonder what the problem these users have. Mine set up in less than an hour.....heck I even tore the entire thing apart to paint it and it went back together in minutes

I have a good friend who has the Classic Cast Turret and yes its a great press kit for the money but is 4 pulls per every 45ACP he loads

Yes there are wear parts on the Lee but most cost a couple bucks and so far after over 1K of .223 mine is still great

I'd be looking at a Dillon 550B if I were you. I can easily crank out 100 45 acp in 15 minutes without rushing. Caliber changes are easy if you buy an extra tool head. Their customer service is great.

hornady lnl - base price the same as the Dillon 550, at least the same features of the 650xl, just buy a couple 10 packs of bushings

just buy it, and be ready to do.. its EASY, and with a powder cop die, easy to check powder levels

i like the dillon .. good press ...

however, for the exact same money as a 550 MANUAL indexing, you get the lnl automatic indexing.. the lee? well, no, thanks..

I own both a Hornady LNL and a Dillon 650.....both are excellent presses...

Sorry I have no experience with the Lee.....so can't comment on it.

I will say this....if the press don't automatically index, I'd leave it in the store.....especially for handgun reloading where the case if ofter filled to much less than 50% of the case volume.

I believe one of the RCBS presses is of this nature and possibly the Dillon 550....check before you buy.

vapo,

can u clarify your last paragraph

Manual indexing. Pull handle. And the turn shellholder

Automatic indexing. Pull handle and the shellholder turns automatically.

i should have said the last phrase of the second to last paragraph where he referncecs case volume

Dillons have a serious design flaw with the floating die heads; I want my dies to be locked in the press, rigidly, and not move. Any. And yes, the Dillon 550 is manually rotated so forget that one. And the case insertion location is backwards; you have to use your right hand, which on the Hornady, can stay on the tiller whilst you load brass and bullets with your left, unless you want to buy the auto case and bullet feeders which I do not have and which, I have found, are not needed for me to crank out ammo pretty darn fast. The loaded rounds are ejected automatically. No I do not work for Hornady. But they have great customer service; they upgraded my original Pro 7 to a Pro Jector for free. The battery operated primer tube loader is cheap and fun to use so don't knock one until you use it.

Mike
The volume part is a potential double charge. Say X case can hold 18 gr of y powder, with bullet in normal position. If your load is less than 9 (could be more) gr and in a manual indexing press you COULD put in a double charge. No powder spill.

Reason number ONE manual indexing presses for pistol rounds is out of the question for me.


Dillon 550 and some rcbs presses are in this category

Thanks Jeff

Even though I like reloading I bought a progressive (Dillon 650) because I was shooting so much pistol. I use what ever dies I had. They were all carbide.

I spent what I could afford and that included a case feeder and both Primer feeds.

I load both lead and jacketed pistol on it. I read that some of the bullet feeders don't like lead bullets so I held off on getting one.

I also don't have powder measures on each tool head (because of the cost) I may go back and add dedicated measures for the calibers I load the most.

I figure I can get 400+ an hour maybe even 500. Funny I never timed it single stage. Once I set the machine up I load as much as I can.

Once the toolhead is set up it takes less than 10 minutes to change calibers.

Toolhead swap.
Primer feed swap if needed (if you going from/to small/large)
shellplate swap
case feeder bushing swap.

I have a technique where I use a digital caliper to set the powder measure. I also record where the dial is.

I must be the only guy who has no love for the Hornady L&L. I had significant run out variation with the L&L that I did not see with a RCBS single stage, a Foster Coax, or any of the dillon products (550, 650, or 1050).

When I called Hornady, they said that my variation was insignificant (roughly .005)- but it was too much for me. Sold the press at a big loss.

I have not used a lee progressive. I have used a few shotgun progressives in addition to the above mentioned presses.

As far as I'm concerned, the dillon product is the best noncommercial progressive loader you can get for centerfire.

As happens a lot on this site, I find myself the outlier... I use the RCBS Piggyback II. It is auto-indexing, and obviously uses RCBS dies (which means it will use all the others as well...). It took a bit of learning to get it running without hiccup, and I will admit the unit can be a bit fussy when it comes to adjusting the primer feed. But it works for me, and as I have stated in other threads, all it takes is adding a fired case and a projectile, pull the handle and a loaded round falls into the bin. Primer tubes hold 100 primers apiece, and an aluminum pin placed in the top of the tube locks the press out when the tube is empty so you don't advance a stage without a primed case.

I like it. I believe RCBS has updated the press or maybe done away with it entirely, going with manual advance presses. But now that I have learned the Piggyback II, I use it for all handgun calibers as well as 5.56/223. And that may be expanded in the future.

Runout? If you mean lateral run out of the head; the indexing shell plates are not fixed so the brass will find the center of the die. I am not sure what you mean here. As for Dillon; they have the least rigid head arrangement of all; I used both a 550 and a 650 that friends had; the die holders wiggled all over the place; I have no use for the Dillon at all.

I think that CRbutler has had the same experience that I have. The turret has enough play that when sizing and seating bullets they are not concentric with the case. I had this problem with the Lee progressive press. I mounted a dial indicator on the press frame and the indicator on the turret and sized a 223 case. The deflection at the turret was 0.085" in the front and -0.085" in the rear. The measurements were similar when seating the bullet. That was causing excessive runout in the cases when loaded. Armed with that information I checked my Lyman turret press and found that I was getting about 0.003" of deflection and I adjusted the load screw in the back of the press and reduced the deflection to less than 0.0005". That is as good as it gets for any turret press that I have seen. I still get a little runout in assembled cases even with my RCBS Rockchucker but it is well within my standards and allows me to shoot well under MOA five shot groups at 100 yards.

The Lyman is not a progressive press. It is a manual turret.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The Lyman is not a progressive press. It is a manual turret.

I know that very well but the Lee can be either manual or progressive. The difference in the stability of the turret is my point - not the actuation between the stages.

85 thousands is a mile!
I'll throw an indicator on my lee and see how it stacks up.
It aint no were near that though

I do abut all my pistol loading on a L&L. For precision rifle ammo I still use a single stage press. Guess I don't associate precision with large quantity.
C.G.B.

quote:

Originally posted by cgbach:
I do abut all my pistol loading on a L&L. For precision rifle ammo I still use a single stage press. Guess I don't associate precision with large quantity.
C.G.B.

I too only load for precision on my single stage press and weigh every charge ect ect ect

But for the AR platform and auto handgun I use a full progressive

Guess I'm friggin old school, been using a Lee Auto that I changed to manual. I ain't in no hurry, just load 44mag, 45acp mostly. Gonna start on 30'06, just ain't. Been using that press since 1987. Spent my money on powder measure, brass trimmer and powder scale. Been happy w/ this set up for many a moon. Deal is to each his own. nuff said. P.S. love the Lee primer tool.

I have an old Hornady "Projector". Auto indexing is a wonderful thing! The newer LNL Hornady presses look awesome! Get the Hornady!

I never used a Hornady so I cannot comment on them .I do have a 550B and bought it because it does not auto index.I like this because if something happens I can correct it right away.I can load about 350 rounds an hour without breaking a sweat.Someone younger and more dexterous than me could bump that up easy.

quote:

Originally posted by PaulS:
I think that CRbutler has had the same experience that I have. The turret has enough play that when sizing and seating bullets they are not concentric with the case. I had this problem with the Lee progressive press. I mounted a dial indicator on the press frame and the indicator on the turret and sized a 223 case. The deflection at the turret was 0.085" in the front and -0.085" in the rear. The measurements were similar when seating the bullet. That was causing excessive runout in the cases when loaded. Armed with that information I checked my Lyman turret press and found that I was getting about 0.003" of deflection and I adjusted the load screw in the back of the press and reduced the deflection to less than 0.0005". That is as good as it gets for any turret press that I have seen. I still get a little runout in assembled cases even with my RCBS Rockchucker but it is well within my standards and allows me to shoot well under MOA five shot groups at 100 yards.

I set up my travel indicator and my Noga mag base today on my Lee Loadmaster over the size die and am pleased to report .oo1 deflection using all 5 stations and ran 100 rounds of .223 in 18 minutes

Deprime
Size
Throw
Seat
Crimp
Eject

Did you measure the deflection of the die in the turret or the deflection in the turret to the frame?
The turret to frame is where I measured. I expect no deflection from turret to die. If the die deflects in the turret that would mean that the die was moving in the threaded portion and that should be locked solid.

The mag base was secured to the bench not the frame of the press

Like I said just .oo1 and not a bad press for less than $250 ready to go.

The press you checked was not the loadmaster either

ted thorn, I went to a gun show in Mesquite, TX. while there I purchased 40 pounds of reloading bits, parts and pieces for $20.00 dollars. I had to stand in line while others examined the contents of the two boxes, mixed in with the miscellaneous collection were Lee dies, after purchasing the two boxes I started separating the Lee equipment, the dealer wanted to know why. I explained to him I was giving the Lee stuff back to him. I thought I was being generous, he explained to me he did not sell the Lee stuff, he claimed he threw the Lee dies in for free, meaning I was not going to leave him with the Lee equipment.

I was trying to reduce the weight to make it easier to haul through the parking lot. The first piece out of the box was a RCBS bullet puller with a 30 cal. collet, it appeared to be locked up, that made it affordable. There were dies that were old that most thought they had been modified.


F. Guffey

So this means what?

In my original post here I stated I own every brand of this and that but found the loadmaster to be a good press for the money

I am not brand specific.....if it works and works good.....I buy it and use it

If it doesnt I get rid of it

Lee makes several good tools and many that are not

Setting things out of a box just to make it lightet?

Hmmmm

Ted

How can you remember what brand of equipment you are using when everything is the same colour?



I personally have and use...

Lee Pro 1000 (three dies) - loaded a bunch of pistol ammo in .40 S&W on it. The primer feed can cause problems (it needs to be clean and kept clean and free of powder!) and if you don't feed a primer and dump powder in a case it is a mess and you can need to strip the press to clean it out. The indexing with a short case like a .40 S&W can spill a few grains of powder on the carrier and over time it can gum the works up after a while. It was not enough to affect performance noticeably.

My ammo was good for the purpose. The shell carrier plate (I think they call it) does flex, so you need to have a cartridge in whatever state of loaded at each station (i.e. a case in each station, not just 1 or 2).

I kept my press clean and lubed sparingly and it has worked really well. I'd say 1000 is a real push, but I've probably got to almost 500-600 in an hour with it reliabily (300-400 is easy). At higher speed of manipulation you risk doing something in sloppy fashion (like not seating a primer) and that will slow you down. It's more human error than a press problem and you need to stop to fill up primer trays and so on). I have a case feeder and manually feed bullets. It auto indexes.

I think that if you have the energy to decap before hand this press will run like a dream. The spent primers can get caught up in the press and jam the shell carrier plate, or the primer seater mechanism, or prevent you from lifting the handle enough to seat the primer properly as the spent primer can sit between the frame and the part that moves up and down (need to look at a list of parts to talk sense).

As I now clean cases with SS media and decap for this things should be better going forward. Like lots of Lee stuff, a really great idea not always executed as well as possible.

I'd not load larger rifle cases on it as I think flex will be too much for good accuracy. It depends what you are after.

I also have a Dillon 450 (a 550 with a fixed tool head, otherwise I think identical).

It does not auto index like the Lee and I don't have the case feeder, so it is much slower. It also runs clockwise, so with the two presses you need to get into a rhythm to get up to best speed. Feeding cases and bullets by hand is a good exercise in co-ordination! Case with right hand, bullet with the left , index manually bullet with left hand, case with right hand etc.

I haven't used it enough to get a good sense as to speed with it and I use it for 9mm P, so the small cases are a bit harder to handle which makes me slower. It still beats a single stage, but if speed is what you are after a Lee will work fine with some care and maintenance.

By the way, look at how clean Ted's presses are.

That said, the Dillon is a "smoother" machine than the Lee Pro 1000 (maybe because the index is manual) and more solid with less perceived flex. I had no issues with spent primers getting into the works.

The powder measure on the Dillon is better in my opinion. The Pro 1000 measure limits you with the fixed size inserts and the micro charge bar, which gives you infinite adjustment, seemed to cause some powder bridging (small charges around 5gr) and I got some puff loads (even with a light set up to look into the case before seating the bullet - which I recommend for all progressives).

This limited adjustment then created some issues with some of my loads, but I could always go to a bigger charge hole and reduce the size of the hole in the insert with some nail varnish or epoxy, or something like that. You will need to check that it is still there when you finish loading.

I've not loaded rifle cartridges on either press, but the Dillon would seem to be a better bet than the Pro 1000 if flex bothers you.

The faults recognised and acceptable to you, I'd use either.

Widden has a system that lets you float your dies in a Dillon toolhead which may help runout. As I recall there are a few of the top highpower shooters using (fairly highly) modified Dillons. I don't think they are using Lee. My comments relate to the Pro 1000 and not the Load-Master which is more "solid".

I'm also a single stage user for precision.

Dillon 650

For me I use the Dillon Square deal B for pistol....they work great, auto indexing and cheap enough that I just buy one for each pistol caliber I load.....they are allways set up and ready.

I made a mounting plate for each that I just "wingnut" them down on the bench when needed stored on a shelf when not.


.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
vapo,

can u clarify your last paragraph

OK....what I meant to say is that it's a real important thing for me that the press automatically indexes....that one doesn't have to manually rotate the stations after a cycle stroke of the handle.....and that it might be that one of the RCBS presses as well as the Dillon 550 is of that manual indexing requirement...

Auto indexing goes a long ways to insure that one does not load a double charge and with handgun loads that can be a real issue where the powder charges are quite small compared to the case volume.