I went to start some load work-up for a new bullet in my .458 WM and had a new occurrence.

When I took some of the cases out of the FL resize die...some of them had a ring of shaved brass half way around the circumference of the case, just above the belt.

Never had that happen before...what is the problem...the die or the brass??? This brass has been shot several times.

Well it this is a new occurrence with brass you have resized and reloaded before I'd have to wonder if the last time they were fired if they were slightly over pressure. Being a 458 WM look into the case and see too if you're starting to get a thinning ring just right ahead of the belt. A bend paper clip can be used as a feeler. Are the cases growing any?

You might need to purchase a Belted collet die.

Yes...this is brass I have loaded and shot before...several times. These cases have been trimmed once or twice.

It sounds as if the shell holder is off-center.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
You might need to purchase a Belted collet die.

Graybird...you may have hit the nail on the head!

Went back and checked set-up good. Made sure shell-holder was aligned and all. Did a new piece of brass...no problem. Did a once or twice fired piece...no problem. Got one of my 6 or 7 times loaded and trimmed a couple of times pieces out and it shaved just above the belt. Looked at some and they do seem to have a bulge there.

Graybird or others,
Have you used one of these belted collet dies??? I read his description of why it was needed and seems like exactly what I am experiencing.

Welcome feed-back from anyone.

If it is just happening on one side of the brass, I am thinking maybe the extractor is holding the brass to one side of the chamber and it is resulting in a fired case that is somewhat out of round... I had this happen once in an '03. I like to drove myself crazy trying to figure out what happened. A gunsmith told me what was going on. Does the shaved ring vary in location from case to case with regard to the head stamp? Were these by chance somewhat lower pressure loads than full tilt stuff?

They were full-house loads. And I have reloaded lots of brass shot out of this rifle and these were the first ones to do this. These ones that have had the problem may have been loaded more times than I realize.

The collet die will cure your problem. You will get lots more firings out of your brass too until the primer pockets become too loose. Remember to use lots of lube and I've found that imperial die wax is the best.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Went back and checked set-up good. Made sure shell-holder was aligned and all. Did a new piece of brass...no problem. Did a once or twice fired piece...no problem. Got one of my 6 or 7 times loaded and trimmed a couple of times pieces out and it shaved just above the belt. Looked at some and they do seem to have a bulge there.

Graybird or others,
Have you used one of these belted collet dies??? I read his description of why it was needed and seems like exactly what I am experiencing.

Welcome feed-back from anyone.

This problem is partly a design issue with belted cases. To size right down to the belt the die needs a sharp shoulder inside ahead of the belt. If the chamber is a good bit larger than the die you will have the possibility of scraping the case unless the edge of the die is radiused. If it is radiused it will not size to the belt. Get it?

You could experiment by polishing the die base diameter out ahead of the belt.
If you are interested in trying this make a cerrosafe cast of the base of your chamber and in the die.
If a fired case can swell larger than the radius edge then the die will scuff it. If you
decide to polish the die out polish the die body ID until it is about .004 smaller than your chamber case. Be very careful to minimize a large radius ahead at the front of the belt.

It might take several iterations to find a combo that works.

The polishing I am referring to should be done in a lathe with 320 to 400 grit silicon carbide paper lubricated with WD-40 or a light oil.

Oh yeah and before you try all of this try this.

Lube your cases and partially size down until you get to the start of the scuff.
Pull the case out and rotate about 180 degrees. And size again but all the way down or at least part of the way down. You may be able to sneak up on the bulge and iron it down.

I received my "belted collet die" today. Will give an update on how it works.

It is strange that this didn't happen before as you said you have previously reloaded these cases (assuming with the same die setup.

About 3 or 4 years ago, I bought a Lee Deluxe Die set for my .338 Win. Mag. which I later discovered has a "egg-shaped" out of round chamber. The Lee FL die did the exact same thing, shave a sliver of brass off of each case. I was in a bit of a hurry at the time, thinking it would take Lee 3 or 4 weeks to respond or correct, so I bought a Redding 338 die set. Using the Redding FL die, the problem went away.

Last year I sent the Lee FL die back to the factory along with several of the shaved cases and a brief note stating the problem. Within a week and half, they sent my original FL die back along with the formerly shaved cases which were now minus the gouge left from the previous die condition. I have no idea what they did to the die but I tried it and all seems fine now.

Well...this is a Lee die. But...I have used it a lot with out a problem...same rifle and all else same. The cases that are a problem are ones I have used in load work up over and over...I 'assume' it is the repetitive use that finally allowed the bulge to worsen enough to shave the case. I have used it on newer cases after the shaved ones occurred...again with no problem.

I like the idea of this new die as it serves as a "bulge gauge" as well.

I bought a set of Lee dies in .375 H&H that did the same thing! I chunked 'em and got RCBS.

The collet is a great little dodad, it will give you a bunch more firings out of belted mag cases. +1 on the Imperial die wax!


.

I like Lee dies and have loaded 1000's of rounds with them...100's with these very dies in this caliber...with never a problem.

This brass has been loaded 7-8 times that is having the problem. I measured some of the culprits...and there is a significant bulge.

"I received my "belted collet die" today. Will give an update on how it works." Quote

So how does that collet die work?

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
"I received my "belted collet die" today. Will give an update on how it works." Quote

So how does that collet die work?

Will let you know by Monday.

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
"I received my "belted collet die" today. Will give an update on how it works." Quote

So how does that collet die work?

I would have to say it is the cat's-meow for this problem.

One note. In the instructions that came with the die...in bold, it says to "only use on cases that HAVE BEEN full-length resized OR neck resized. Logic told me 2 things. 1) If it was going to solve my problem...it would have to be used PRIOR to full length resizing. And 2) if it was OK to use on neck-sized only cases...it should be fine to use first.

So...I resized first with the collet die...then I ran through the FL resize die then I checked them in the gauge which is the top of the die. Worked great. I was amazed...at just how much of a bulge the cases were getting!

Glad to hear that the collet die worked for you. There are alot of people on here that trashed the collet die idea but none had tried it. I shoot alot of belted magnums and this really is the cat's meow for them. I've got upwards of 20 firings out of some of my brass and I believe it is because of the collet die. Best of luck to you.

quote:

There are alot of people on here that trashed the collet die idea but none had tried it.

Actually...after you think about it...logic would tell you that this die makes a lot of common sense for belted cases.

Glad to hear I am not the only one who likes it.

Shot some of the .458 WM brass that was bulged and I resized with my collet die. It shot great. No problems with the brass. Ran some throught FL resizer and it did not shave brass. Those bulges must have built over 5-7 firings.

Highly recommend the Belted Magnum Collet Die.