My favorite site on this subject got taken down, so I can't link to it anymore, but the gist of it was that we are using the wrong terminology here.

In brass, annealing makes the material dead soft, and unsuitable for cartridge brass. The 450 to 800 degree range F (it's a very wide useful range) is what the engineers call the "re-crystallization" range. This is the range we use to counter the effects of work-hardening.

See, for example:
http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wrought_co...6000_cartridge_brass

As an aside, I've been using Todd Kindler's handy dandy torch attachment, and find I can't get the necks too hot when the cases are placed in a pan with water -- though I've only tried mini-action length cases (i.e. ppc, 223, WSSM). FWIW, Dutch.

So, reading all the above & several other threads/sites about annealing, as far as I can see, to distill it to something simple, as long as the temperature of the neck is raised to between 425-750 degrees C, it is annealed. It is not important to drop into water as part of the annealing process, we do this to stop the base becoming annealed, but dropping it into water does not effect the annealing of the neck once raised to the above temperature. YES????
Steve

Departing from any jocularity I might have caused; Through the years More than once I have taken case necks into the red color keeping the lower portion submerged in water. I have never through this testing run into any apparent problem. I have, however, never used these cases in competition, nor intentionally tested them for repeatability performance. Using them while hunting always went well.

Oh! the eye tooth test is real. roger

This discussion motivated me to try my first brass annealing after over 25 years of reloading. I did it my way; I took a 20 cm. piece of 3/4 inch iron pipe, I put inside it a piece of silicon rubber that I can push back and forth to adjust the correct brass "exposure". I choose to let all the neck, shoulder and 2-3 mm. of the shank exposed, while the lower part is somewhat protected; I rotate the pipe (the brass inside follows) almost horizontally during 6 seconds, while I keep the neck directly exposed to the flame, then I gently let the brass fall into the pot (no water). I will reload the cases soon, so I will feel and see the results. I've annealed 20 300WM and 15 270WSM; it took only 3-4 minutes.

Wildboar, I like your case holder. I've annealed for some years and essentially used the same method. However, I used a small dowel through the falsh hole and held the case in the flame until it glowed properly. I do drop my cases into a pot of water. I feel that this stops the migration of the heat and confines the annealed area of the brass more to the shoulder and neck. I do like your shellholder, mind if I copy it???

I'm glad you appreciate my idea!

wildboar, that is almost a carbon copy of what I do and your brass looks like mine. I spent the whopping $40 on the Hornady annealing kit and use my cordless drill.

In the last couple of weeks I've become quite efficient and have yet to need any water.

quote:

Originally posted by Shinzo:
So, reading all the above & several other threads/sites about annealing, as far as I can see, to distill it to something simple, as long as the temperature of the neck is raised to between 425-750 degrees C, it is annealed. It is not important to drop into water as part of the annealing process, we do this to stop the base becoming annealed, but dropping it into water does not effect the annealing of the neck once raised to the above temperature. YES????
Steve

YES!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

quote:

Originally posted by Shinzo:
So, reading all the above & several other threads/sites about annealing, as far as I can see, to distill it to something simple, as long as the temperature of the neck is raised to between 425-750 degrees C, it is annealed. It is not important to drop into water as part of the annealing process, we do this to stop the base becoming annealed, but dropping it into water does not effect the annealing of the neck once raised to the above temperature. YES????
Steve

YES!!!!

In which case I would certainly drop the cases into water to guard against any weakening of the base due to excessive heat. I guess this could be a hassle if you're having to anneal & dry a big batch at a time but for modest numbers I've never found it to be too much of a nuisance.
Thanks Doc.
Steve

I would not overestimate the case base overheating/softening issue; the way I anneal allows me to barely keep the brass in my hand, so, the shank/base temperature is certainly lower than 65 C° - 147 F; no softening at that temperature and no need of water, IMO. During summertime, 300WM cases ejected by my BAR, are certainly hotter, since I cannot touch them during the first 8/10 seconds, but I can reload those cases several times without any apparent issue.

Just a clarification, I rotate the pipe with my hands; during the 6 seconds I can make 2.5/3 2/2.5 rotations

Now, take a look at this:

http://zephyrdynamics.com/BrassOMatic/BrassomaticLFHQ.wmv

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
I would not overestimate the case base overheating/softening issue; the way I anneal allows me to barely keep the brass in my hand, so, the shank/base temperature is certainly lower than 65 C° - 147 F; no softening at that temperature and no need of water, IMO. During summertime, 300WM cases ejected by my BAR, are certainly hotter, since I cannot touch them during the first 8/10 seconds and I can reload those cases several times without any apparent issue.

Just a clarification, I rotate the pipe/brass with my hands; during the 6 seconds I make 2.5/3 rotations

Now, take a look at this:

http://zephyrdynamics.com/BrassOMatic/BrassomaticLFHQ.wmv

WB, some good points there & I confess that I've always done it that way cause thats what everyone said. I'll try it out on a few cases & see what I think, would sure, save a lot of shaking & drying.
Steve