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Some one attacked the use of a Blue Dot load, ( requested by another forum member).. pointing out how "unsafe" it is..

while this subject has been pounded repeatedly here on AR, thought I would list the warning on reloading from Alliants Web Site:

Buyers and users assume ALL risk, responsibility and liability whatsoever for any and all injuries (including death), losses or damages to persons or property (including consequential damages), arising from the use of any product or data, whether or not occasioned by seller's negligence or based on strict liability or principles of indemnity or contribution. Alliant Powder neither assumes nor authorizes any person to assume for it any liability in connection with the USE OF ANY product or data. The individual accessing this site assumes the risk of safe loading practices. The individual accessing this site assumes the risk of safe loading practices. Failure to do so could result in severe personal injury (or death) and/or property damage.

SO I am sure this will give HC a coronary.. but Alliant is stating that using any powder of their manufacture, is the responsibility of the individual, not their responsibility...which includes published load data from them...

and clearly States that SAFE Load Practices are the responsibility of the individual...something that those of us who load Blue Dot loads have been saying all along..

Imagine that...
 
Posts: 16144 | Location: Southern Oregon USA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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In their dreams!!! Not worth the time it took to type that.


PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor
 
Posts: 1629 | Location: Potter County, Pennsylvania | Registered: 22 June 2005Reply With Quote
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Was this ever in question ?.

A powder company is not responsible for it's product beyond stability at the time of sale and a reasonable

period there after, provided " Proper Storage " has been maintained !.

I don't wish to add sticks too the fire but NONE of you maintains proper storage nor do I !.

Proper storage is difficult even at loading factory facility's !. Just ask those at Prvi Partizan !!!.

Usage of explosives is an accepted risk of the handler ; NEVER think other wise !!!!!!!!!.

archer archer archer
 
Posts: 4485 | Location: Planet Earth | Registered: 17 October 2008Reply With Quote
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Doc,

I'll add a stick to the fire, smokeless powders are considered to be flammable solids, not explosives. archer
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of vapodog
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quote:
warning on reloading from Alliants Web Site:

At least from my view.....one cannot connect the dots between use of powders not specified on the manufacturers loading data and the quoted warning.

They are not at all the same thing.

I neither condone nor condemn the use of powders not stated by manufacturers....However I won't use such data for my own reloading.


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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
Doc,

I'll add a stick to the fire, smokeless powders are considered to be flammable solids, not explosives. archer


watch out .. hollywood may go all wacko on you for correcting him ...


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40075 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by airgun1:
In their dreams!!! Not worth the time it took to type that.


Cut and paste works wonders and saves lots of time.. Big Grin
 
Posts: 16144 | Location: Southern Oregon USA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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"Explosive." Explosive - any chemical compound, mixture, or device, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion, i.e., with substantially instantaneous release of gas and heat, unless such compound, mixture, or device is otherwise specifically classified by the U.S. Department of Transportation; see 49 CFR chapter I. The term "explosives" shall include all material which is classified as Class A, Class B, and Class C explosives by the U.S. Department of Transportation, and includes, but is not limited to dynamite, black powder, pellet powders, initiating explosives, blasting caps, electric blasting caps, safety fuse, fuse lighters, fuse igniters, squibs, cordeau detonant fuse, instantaneous fuse, igniter cord, igniters, small arms ammunition, small arms ammunition primers, smokeless propellant, cartridges for propellant-actuated power devices, and cartridges for industrial guns. Commercial explosives are those explosives which are intended to be used in commercial or industrial operations.

How's that for Ole Hollywood Doc !!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Courtesy DOT !.

An explosion is a rapid increase in volume and release of energy in an extreme manner, usually with the generation of high temperatures and the release of gases. An explosion creates a shock wave. If the shock wave is a supersonic detonation, then the source of the blast is called a "high explosive". Subsonic shock waves are created by low explosives through the slower burning process known as deflagration.


ex·plo·sive
   /ɪkˈsploʊsɪv/ Show Spelled[ik-sploh-siv] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
tending or serving to explode: an explosive temper; Nitroglycerin is an explosive substance.
2.
pertaining to or of the nature of an explosion: explosive violence.
3.
likely to lead to violence or hostility: an explosive issue.
4.
Phonetics. plosive.
–noun
5.
an explosive agent or substance, as dynamite.
6.
Phonetics. plosive.


Explosion ;

The act of exploding; detonation; a chemical action which causes the sudden formation of a great volume of expanded gas; as, the explosion of gunpowder, of fire damp,etc.
A bursting with violence and loud noise, because of internal pressure; as, the explosion of a gun, a bomb, a steam boiler, etc.
A violent outburst of feeling, manifested by excited language, action, etc.; as, an explosion of wrath.




explosion ;
Pronunciation: \ik-ˈsplō-zhən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin explosion-, explosio act of driving off by clapping, from explodere
Date: 1667

1 : the act or an instance of exploding <injured in a laboratory explosion>
2 : a large-scale, rapid, or spectacular expansion or bursting out or forth <the explosion of suburbia> <an explosion of red hair>
3 : the release of occluded breath that occurs in one kind of articulation of stop consonants

Class dismissed !!!. archer archer archer
 
Posts: 4485 | Location: Planet Earth | Registered: 17 October 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of TEANCUM
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
quote:
warning on reloading from Alliants Web Site:

At least from my view.....one cannot connect the dots between use of powders not specified on the manufacturers loading data and the quoted warning.

They are not at all the same thing.

I neither condone nor condemn the use of powders not stated by manufacturers....However I won't use such data for my own reloading.


If you read the disclaimer carefully you will see that it also applies to any data they provide.


"Buyers and users assume ALL risk, responsibility and liability whatsoever for any and all injuries (including death), losses or damages to persons or property (including consequential damages), arising from the use of any product or data, whether or not occasioned by seller's negligence or based on strict liability or principles of indemnity or contribution. Alliant Powder neither assumes nor authorizes any person to assume for it any liability in connection with the USE OF ANY product or data data The individual accessing this site assumes the risk of safe loading practices. The individual accessing this site assumes the risk of safe loading practices. Failure to do so could result in severe personal injury (or death) and/or property damage."
 
Posts: 1788 | Location: IDAHO | Registered: 12 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of vapodog
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quote:
If you read the disclaimer carefully you will see that it also applies to any data they provide.

homer


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Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Oh boy, sounds like another AR pissing contest is shaping up. popcorn


Aim for the exit hole
 
Posts: 4348 | Location: middle tenn | Registered: 09 December 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of vapodog
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quote:
Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Oh boy, sounds like another AR pissing contest is shaping up. popcorn

Hot Core will be along any minute now!!!! animal


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc224/375:
"Explosive." Explosive - any chemical compound, mixture, or device, the primary or common purpose of which is to function by explosion, i.e., with substantially instantaneous release of gas and heat, unless such compound, mixture, or device is otherwise specifically classified by the U.S. Department of Transportation; see 49 CFR chapter I. The term "explosives" shall include all material which is classified as Class A, Class B, and Class C explosives by the U.S. Department of Transportation, and includes, but is not limited to dynamite, black powder, pellet powders, initiating explosives, blasting caps, electric blasting caps, safety fuse, fuse lighters, fuse igniters, squibs, cordeau detonant fuse, instantaneous fuse, igniter cord, igniters, small arms ammunition, small arms ammunition primers, smokeless propellant, cartridges for propellant-actuated power devices, and cartridges for industrial guns. Commercial explosives are those explosives which are intended to be used in commercial or industrial operations.

How's that for Ole Hollywood Doc !!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Courtesy DOT !.

An explosion is a rapid increase in volume and release of energy in an extreme manner, usually with the generation of high temperatures and the release of gases. An explosion creates a shock wave. If the shock wave is a supersonic detonation, then the source of the blast is called a "high explosive". Subsonic shock waves are created by low explosives through the slower burning process known as deflagration.


ex·plo·sive
   /ɪkˈsploʊsɪv/ Show Spelled[ik-sploh-siv] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
tending or serving to explode: an explosive temper; Nitroglycerin is an explosive substance.
2.
pertaining to or of the nature of an explosion: explosive violence.
3.
likely to lead to violence or hostility: an explosive issue.
4.
Phonetics. plosive.
–noun
5.
an explosive agent or substance, as dynamite.
6.
Phonetics. plosive.


Explosion ;

The act of exploding; detonation; a chemical action which causes the sudden formation of a great volume of expanded gas; as, the explosion of gunpowder, of fire damp,etc.
A bursting with violence and loud noise, because of internal pressure; as, the explosion of a gun, a bomb, a steam boiler, etc.
A violent outburst of feeling, manifested by excited language, action, etc.; as, an explosion of wrath.




explosion ;
Pronunciation: \ik-ˈsplō-zhən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin explosion-, explosio act of driving off by clapping, from explodere
Date: 1667

1 : the act or an instance of exploding <injured in a laboratory explosion>
2 : a large-scale, rapid, or spectacular expansion or bursting out or forth <the explosion of suburbia> <an explosion of red hair>
3 : the release of occluded breath that occurs in one kind of articulation of stop consonants

Class dismissed !!!. archer archer archer


Hodgdon's labeling/packaging states:

" DANGER EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE *See Precautions on Side.

*Smokeless powder for small arms is not an explosive regulated by Federal Explosive Law, but may explode if misused."

Just because DOT may "classify" something as explosive, it does not necessarily mean, in fact, that it is.
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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I am no expert by any means. I am just going by what a lawyer told me one time.

We were in line to do something or ride something or some type activity that had a waiver that we had to sign. The waiver basically said you were doing this at your own risk and that they weren't responsible.

The lawyer turned to me and said that signing the waiver was no big deal that "the hell they aren't responsible".

Just ask taverns, McDonald's, or car makers. No one accepts responsibility for their own actions. Just to be clear, I do accept responsibilty for my own actions as does most if not all of our family.


PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor
 
Posts: 1629 | Location: Potter County, Pennsylvania | Registered: 22 June 2005Reply With Quote
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One way never dismiss liability with a signature ( in legal terminology ) If it requires a waiver of

liability it is still a liability !. It's catch 22 . If a vehicle is registered too you and you sell it

are you still liable for said vehicle ?. According to the Dept. of Motor vehicles , " YES " !, unless you

notify the Dept. of the sale as prescribe by law ( least wise in our state ) .

An attorney and Judge explained to me one day a signature does nothing to disavow liability .

Ask Ruger why they inscribed their barrels with warnings !!!!!!!!!!!!.

craigster ;
quote:
*Smokeless powder for small arms is not an explosive regulated by Federal Explosive Law, but may explode if misused."


I don't misuse my powder and it explodes every time I pull the trigger !!!!. SO ???.

Please Re read the definition of EXPLOSION !. It's what propels the projectile during cartridge ignition

yes it's a Burn however all explosions are a Burn . The faster the rate of ignition the more destructive

the force of heat gas expansion !. Dynamite VS Primer cord . Primer cord is appx. 7 times faster on

ignition than nitroglycerin primer or Det cord PETN . Smokeless powder contains nitroglycerin which is

classified as an Explosive !. So arguing over semantics is pointless . Ask your Fire Dept. what they

classify it as . A single cartridge or 8 lb keg of powder confined within it's container will in deed

make an explosion upon detonation . Class is now Dismissed !. I'm on vacation !!!!!!!!!!.

archer archer archer

http://www-dev.atg.wa.gov/AGOO...tion=archive&id=9600
 
Posts: 4485 | Location: Planet Earth | Registered: 17 October 2008Reply With Quote
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With all due respects folks, I seriously doubt that this thread is about the differences between "explosive" and "flammable"


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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horse popcorn


As usual just my $.02
Paul K
 
Posts: 12881 | Location: Mexico, MO | Registered: 02 April 2001Reply With Quote
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He's on vacation.
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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"How's that for Ole Hollywood Doc !!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Courtesy DOT !. "

I love all the legal mumbo jumbo that the D.O.T paid some Yale yahoo to write in order to confuse everyone including themselves.

When anyone starts talking about explosives, the first thing I think about is a heaping bowl of Texas chili! Where the he!! is that on the list!?

 
Posts: 542 | Location: So. Cal | Registered: 31 December 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of jeffeosso
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Hey, Hollywood -- who regulates (snicker) powder? DOT or BATFE ?

flamable solid, sir.. acknowledge it, accept it, live it ..


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40075 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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OK Everyone---PLACE Your Bets! PLACE Your Bets!! knife


popcorn coffee Big Grin
 
Posts: 1004 | Registered: 08 November 2005Reply With Quote
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I know DOT used to regulate explosives and I doubt if when the ATF added the BATFE they didn't transfer the regulatory stuff, just the enforcement/investigative stuff. Sort of like most of the paperwork still comes from the Treasury Dept and not the Justice Dept.


PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor
 
Posts: 1629 | Location: Potter County, Pennsylvania | Registered: 22 June 2005Reply With Quote
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DOT regulates the shipping of HAZ Mat not the manufacture of it.
 
Posts: 19735 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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The suspense is killing me....
 
Posts: 50 | Registered: 25 July 2009Reply With Quote
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You know, it wouldn't surprize me if it was the Bureau of Mining or the parent of that??? The suspense is building, LOL!!

ETA: I can recall numerous times that the BATFE was in my small town doing inspections. They may visit a gunshop to chat but they were inspecting sintered metal plants' storage and records of Carbide. They never inspected any FFL #1, or #3 holders even though we have have a dozen in a one mile radius.


PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor
 
Posts: 1629 | Location: Potter County, Pennsylvania | Registered: 22 June 2005Reply With Quote
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Storage of powder is regulated by the Fire Marshall, you always want to keep the Fire Marshall happy....
 
Posts: 353 | Location: Southern Black Hills SD | Registered: 20 October 2004Reply With Quote
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