I spun a really needy 30-06 casing in my hand with a piece of steel wool. Fast, easy, and clean and smooth. Is there some major downside to this, instead of polishing them in a drum with media?

Little tough to get the interior, primer pocket, and flash hole done that way. If you have a lot of time on your hands you can certainly polish cases one at a time. Of course if you were really bored you could fab a little jig with a small 115 VAC motor to hold the cases and clean em with felt buffs and compound. At some point it's cheaper to buy new brass.

Surely you've got something better to do with your time. 'course in a forum that spends three pages discussing the relative merits of Lee dies, maybe you are doing the better thing.

I've done this many times when just loading 20rds or so. Lee makes a case spinner you can chuck in a drill press & clean up 20rds faster than it takes to take them out of the tumbling media.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
I spun a really needy 30-06 casing in my hand with a piece of steel wool. Fast, easy, and clean and smooth. Is there some major downside to this, instead of polishing them in a drum with media?

I did this years ago too.....then one day I needed to do other things with my time and I bought a vibro tumbler.....it takes a lot of manual labor out of the equation.

To answer your question.....No....it's just fine and it's actually better than posting on the PF!

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
I spun a really needy 30-06 casing in my hand with a piece of steel wool. Fast, easy, and clean and smooth. Is there some major downside to this, instead of polishing them in a drum with media?

There’s no down side to what you’re doing that I can think of except the amount of time you spend cleaning individual cases by hand. What ever works for you. Woods has a pretty good system for cleaning cases by hand. You possible have seen his method in earlier posts, if not, do a search, it’s worth reading.

I went for years without a tumbler but now that I have one, I find it pretty handy. Whenever it burns out, I’ll buy another one.

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
Surely you've got something better to do with your time. 'course in a forum that spends three pages discussing the relative merits of Lee dies, maybe you are doing the better thing.

Hey wymple

I use a Lee Zip Trim mounted on a 2x4 and held in a vise on the bench to trim, chamfer and clean cases. Originally I used steel wool and it did OK but would get my hands dirty as hell. Now I either do it with a square of scotchbrite or Flitz



Both get the case clean but the Flitz leaves a protective slick coating on the case which makes it easier to chamber and resistant to corrosion



And before anyone talks about having too much time on my hands, I can do about 50 cases in a half hour, and that is trimmed, chamferred, outside polished, inside neck steel wooled and inside of neck mica'ed



and that is without the cost of a tumbler or the cost of constant tumbler media.

Thanks, Woods. Exactly what I need to satisfy my little hobby urge!

woods - them r some purdy cases

Thanks, but I don't do it for pretty. The Flitz'ed cases chamber noticeably easier. The neck prep and mica give noticeably more consistant seating pressure and bullet release. The last 6 shots from my 338RUM were 3191, 3182, 3182, 3189, 3189 & 3197 fps with a 225 gr TTSX. The chronograph must have pulled that last shot !

Performance is most important and the way I do it gives me the most consistant prep, that's what floats my boat ! I'd do it the same way even if it took 3 times as long or took as much time as separate steps for tumbling, trimming and chamfering

wymple, if you decide to try any of this PM me and I'll give you some tips. Don't want to take up space here with methods that are gonna have others calling me crazy or extremely anal

Cases take less time to polish if you don't use scratchy Lee dies.



.......JUST KIDDING ...............................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
...Don't want to take up space here with methods that are gonna have others calling me crazy or extremely anal

I can't see that stopping - regardless.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
...Don't want to take up space here with methods that are gonna have others calling me crazy or extremely anal

I can't see that stopping - regardless.

Hey HC, I resemble that remark!!

What do you clean your cases with, spit and a bandana? Does the left over tobacco juice on the bandana stain the brass??

Picking tomatoes already.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
...What do you clean your cases with, spit and a bandana? Does the left over tobacco juice on the bandana stain the brass??

Nah, nothing that "fancy". Just toss them in the Tumbler with some corn cob and Liquid Kit car wax.

However, after Trimming, Chamfering and Deburring I do Polish the Case Mouth with 0000SteelWool wrapped around an old 22BoreBrush. And just like Wymple mentioned, the Case Necks come out "clean and smooth".

quote:

Picking tomatoes already.

FINALLY got Tomatoes planted on 5May. Thought all was well. Then Monday night the local weather folks thought we would have Frost yesterday morning. Planned to go out and water them if there was any indication, but everything was OK - no Frost. Eat a BIG ole WHOPPER Tomato for me.
-----

Does anyone think having realllllly clean Cases could/would increase Bolt Thrust? (Off Season nit picking! )

I love tomatos and tomato salad made with olive oil,onions and oregano!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I love tomatos and tomato salad made with olive oil,onions and oregano!

Now that is good eats!

Time is money, I use 75% Lyman treated corncob and 25% lyman treated walnut, with 3 cut up used dryer sheets.... 5-6 hours later... CLEAN Brass! I also dont like my brass to be slick like when you use flitz as when your round is fired in your chamber it will put more direct pressure on your bolt instead of on the sides of your chamber....

For 15 years I had a 5000 sq ft of organic garden for which I produced 10 cu yards of compost from grass clippings.

Now we have 10 sq ft of flowers.

Right now I have 67 file folder boxes of reloading supplies. Outside of those boxes, I have 3 tumblers and an ultra sonic cleaner.

I think the gardening was easier.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I love tomatos and tomato salad made with olive oil,onions and oregano!

My Little Italian mother use to make that for me a lot. roger

quote:

I also dont like my brass to be slick like when you use flitz as when your round is fired in your chamber it will put more direct pressure on your bolt instead of on the sides of your chamber....

And you've measured this effect how ...??

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

I also dont like my brass to be slick like when you use flitz as when your round is fired in your chamber it will put more direct pressure on your bolt instead of on the sides of your chamber....

And you've measured this effect how ...??

I'm not sold on this idea either. Anyway there would be varying situations when this is taking effect. In a new belted case where the case is stopped from going forward by the belt, it may be beneficial to aid in brass expansion to the shoulder. In a PFLR'ed case the case is held in stasis between the bolt face and the chamber shoulder, perhaps a little slickness would help the brass expand and thin more uniformly than grabbing and forcing thinning in one spot.

Bolt thrust? How is the minimal strength of the brass itself going to prevent any significant amount of bolt thrust?

Who knows? Anyone seen any data on this?

__________________________________________



Slice 'em up and top 'em off with large curd cottage cheese! As good as ice cream!!

So is there anyone who believes that the frictional coefficient of 260 brass (already very low) is significantly reduced so as to partially negate the 45,000 to 60,000 PSI expanding the case in all directions ...??

BTB - the case recoils in the chamber long before it expands and then obturates at the mouth. If your case construction is heavy enough or you pressure low enough radial expansion of the case is ZERO.

Believing Flitz increases bolt thrust = believing the Earth is Flat. Sounds right but it isn't ....

I take the burrs off rifle case mouths with steel wool packed into a plastic pipe cap. Helps with neck tension.

I stopped tumbling brass when I realized it bangs hell out of mouth edges. So I wash my brass, vinegar and dish detergent. I skip the salt; it seems to turn the brass "pink."

Universal decapper to remove the primers so the pocket gets washed before resizing. Spread the wet brass on a cookie sheet and dry in the oven -- if I'm in a hurry.

Most of the time I put them mouth down in plastic ammo box racks, set them in a dish drainer in front of the forced air heater. But I tend to clean up brass way before I reload it.

That sure is a fine looking pait of Tomatoes. Did BH give them to you?
-----

I used to polish my Cases until they sparkled like a mirror. Not sure why I stopped, but the Clean Non-Sparkling Cases Kill right well.

Everytime I wonder about Bolt Thrust, I go back and read some of PO Ackley's Tests and then wonder "Why?" I was wondering about it.

I was hoping tnekkcc would jump in since he has a bit of first-hand experience with Bolt Thrust.
-----

Hey Macifej, When you mention, "If your case construction is heavy enough or you pressure low enough radial expansion of the case is ZERO.", what level of Pressure are you talking about? Any specific Cartridge in mind?
-----

Hey Wm.S., I've always wondered about that "Salt" portion myself. Since I've had to fight the results of Sweat on Blue Steel a good bit of my life, I've never been able to embrace the idea that intentionally including Salt in a Case Cleaning Recipe is a good thing to do.

quote:

Hey Macifej, When you mention, "If your case construction is heavy enough or you pressure low enough radial expansion of the case is ZERO.", what level of Pressure are you talking about? Any specific Cartridge in mind?

Nothing you'd ever use in a typical hunting rifle. My point was the case itself becomes the projectile and the bullet the bolt face if there were no bolt to stop the case head from recoiling. In that state the case would not obturate and no force applied to the chamber hence no friction.

You can very roughly calculate the potential for case expansion along any point axially using the same formula for hoop and radial stress in barrels. You need to know the section thickness at a given point and the yield strength of case material at the same point. Obviously, drawn brass cases have variable yield and tensile strengths at various locations in the case. This is intentional and affords strength where it's needed ( case head ) and ductility in the case mouth area to gain a proper seal.

Example: this case has a base thickness of .375" and a web thickness of .076". The material yield strength is 48,000 PSI and the mean chamber pressure is calculated at 16,000 PSI. No need to resize the lower 2/3 of the case as it never moves.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
So is there anyone who believes that the frictional coefficient of 260 brass (already very low) is significantly reduced so as to partially negate the 45,000 to 60,000 PSI expanding the case in all directions ...??

BTB - the case recoils in the chamber long before it expands and then obturates at the mouth. If your case construction is heavy enough or you pressure low enough radial expansion of the case is ZERO.

Believing Flitz increases bolt thrust = believing the Earth is Flat. Sounds right but it isn't ....

If you don't think that brass sticking to sides of a chamber decreases bolt thrust why don't you just go head and lube up your rounds with some nice oil and let a few go. I'd STRONGLY suggest you pull the trigger with a string.
If the brass doesn't stick to the sides of the case walls I wonder why H&K goes through the trouble of fluted chambers on their roller-locked weapons????

I doubt if Flitz in particular greases up cases enough to be an issue but there IS a reason you don't want an oiled chamber. Use your common sense.................................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
So is there anyone who believes that the frictional coefficient of 260 brass (already very low) is significantly reduced so as to partially negate the 45,000 to 60,000 PSI expanding the case in all directions ...??

BTB - the case recoils in the chamber long before it expands and then obturates at the mouth. If your case construction is heavy enough or you pressure low enough radial expansion of the case is ZERO.

Believing Flitz increases bolt thrust = believing the Earth is Flat. Sounds right but it isn't ....

If you don't think that brass sticking to sides of a chamber decreases bolt thrust why don't you just go head and lube up your rounds with some nice oil and let a few go. I'd STRONGLY suggest you pull the trigger with a string.
If the brass doesn't stick to the sides of the case walls I wonder why H&K goes through the trouble of fluted chambers on their roller-locked weapons????

I doubt if Flitz in particular greases up cases enough to be an issue but there IS a reason you don't want an oiled chamber. Use your common sense.................................DJ

Agreed... also.... Look up how a semi-auto weapon works.... why do you think it is that the bolt doesn't come back right away.... the case expands first to hold it in the chamber until the bullet leaves and then the bolt comes back.... flitz up your brass and throw them in an AR-15... let me know how your accuracy is...

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
So is there anyone who believes that the frictional coefficient of 260 brass (already very low) is significantly reduced so as to partially negate the 45,000 to 60,000 PSI expanding the case in all directions ...??

BTB - the case recoils in the chamber long before it expands and then obturates at the mouth. If your case construction is heavy enough or you pressure low enough radial expansion of the case is ZERO.

Believing Flitz increases bolt thrust = believing the Earth is Flat. Sounds right but it isn't ....

If you don't think that brass sticking to sides of a chamber decreases bolt thrust why don't you just go head and lube up your rounds with some nice oil and let a few go. I'd STRONGLY suggest you pull the trigger with a string.
If the brass doesn't stick to the sides of the case walls I wonder why H&K goes through the trouble of fluted chambers on their roller-locked weapons????

I doubt if Flitz in particular greases up cases enough to be an issue but there IS a reason you don't want an oiled chamber. Use your common sense.................................DJ

Well DJ - why don't you go ahead and calc out the delta so we can see what your talking about ...??

quote:

Originally posted by WiNdTeCh:

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
So is there anyone who believes that the frictional coefficient of 260 brass (already very low) is significantly reduced so as to partially negate the 45,000 to 60,000 PSI expanding the case in all directions ...??

BTB - the case recoils in the chamber long before it expands and then obturates at the mouth. If your case construction is heavy enough or you pressure low enough radial expansion of the case is ZERO.

Believing Flitz increases bolt thrust = believing the Earth is Flat. Sounds right but it isn't ....

If you don't think that brass sticking to sides of a chamber decreases bolt thrust why don't you just go head and lube up your rounds with some nice oil and let a few go. I'd STRONGLY suggest you pull the trigger with a string.
If the brass doesn't stick to the sides of the case walls I wonder why H&K goes through the trouble of fluted chambers on their roller-locked weapons????

I doubt if Flitz in particular greases up cases enough to be an issue but there IS a reason you don't want an oiled chamber. Use your common sense.................................DJ

Agreed... also.... Look up how a semi-auto weapon works.... why do you think it is that the bolt doesn't come back right away.... the case expands first to hold it in the chamber until the bullet leaves and then the bolt comes back.... flitz up your brass and throw them in an AR-15... let me know how your accuracy is...

When did semi-auto come into play here ..?? Look up ..?? Windy - your semi-auto stays locked up cause it's not a blowback design. Case friction has nothing to do with the operating system.

Lube in the chamber of a semi' auto is only a problem if it attracts grit which might cause difficulty feeding. HK flutes the chambers of rifles for the same reason you flute a bolt - to clear dirt etc. Your HK will function jut fine with a lubed and unfluted chamber.

If either of you own a rifle that might detonate cause the chamber is lubed I suggest you take it back to Toys-R-Us where you bought it ...

Seriously - the two of you shouldn't be reloading - way above your pay grades.

quote:

I'm not sold on this idea either. Anyway there would be varying situations when this is taking effect. In a new belted case where the case is stopped from going forward by the belt, it may be beneficial to aid in brass expansion to the shoulder. In a PFLR'ed case the case is held in stasis between the bolt face and the chamber shoulder, perhaps a little slickness would help the brass expand and thin more uniformly than grabbing and forcing thinning in one spot.

Bolt thrust? How is the minimal strength of the brass itself going to prevent any significant amount of bolt thrust?

Who knows? Anyone seen any data on this?

Woods,
There are a lot of cockamamie old wive's tales about brass sticking to the chambers being good.
Actually the opposite is true. You want the chamber smooth and the brass slick especially in a fast firing weapon. That is the reason some machine guns used oilers on the ammo.

The following is no old wive's tale. It based on engineering analysis.

Check out the FEA at Varmit Al's

>>>>>If you don't think that brass sticking to sides of a chamber decreases bolt thrust why don't you just go head and lube up your rounds with some nice oil and let a few go. I'd STRONGLY suggest you pull the trigger with a string.
If the brass doesn't stick to the sides of the case walls I wonder why H&K goes through the trouble of fluted chambers on their roller-locked weapons????
I doubt if Flitz in particular greases up cases enough to be an issue but there IS a reason you don't want an oiled chamber. Use your common sense.................................DJ[/QUOTE]<<<<<

See the URL to Varmint Al's above

I shoot oiled rounds every trip to the range when I am fire forming brass. It would not bother me in the slightest to shoot oiled cases with max loads. It was common practice for some WWII machine gun designs to have an automatic oiler doing just that in combat.

The HK is a half baked roller delayed blow back system.
The system opens so quickly that there is still gas pressure in the chamber. Hence the need for the expensive chamber fluting process. This is not required in other autoloading designs. This is one of those cases where a guy is so smart that he can make a bad idea work.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Originally posted by WiNdTeCh:

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
So is there anyone who believes that the frictional coefficient of 260 brass (already very low) is significantly reduced so as to partially negate the 45,000 to 60,000 PSI expanding the case in all directions ...??

BTB - the case recoils in the chamber long before it expands and then obturates at the mouth. If your case construction is heavy enough or you pressure low enough radial expansion of the case is ZERO.

Believing Flitz increases bolt thrust = believing the Earth is Flat. Sounds right but it isn't ....

If you don't think that brass sticking to sides of a chamber decreases bolt thrust why don't you just go head and lube up your rounds with some nice oil and let a few go. I'd STRONGLY suggest you pull the trigger with a string.
If the brass doesn't stick to the sides of the case walls I wonder why H&K goes through the trouble of fluted chambers on their roller-locked weapons????

I doubt if Flitz in particular greases up cases enough to be an issue but there IS a reason you don't want an oiled chamber. Use your common sense.................................DJ

Agreed... also.... Look up how a semi-auto weapon works.... why do you think it is that the bolt doesn't come back right away.... the case expands first to hold it in the chamber until the bullet leaves and then the bolt comes back.... flitz up your brass and throw them in an AR-15... let me know how your accuracy is...

When did semi-auto come into play here ..?? Look up ..?? Windy - your semi-auto stays locked up cause it's not a blowback design. Case friction has nothing to do with the operating system.

Lube in the chamber of a semi' auto is only a problem if it attracts grit which might cause difficulty feeding. HK flutes the chambers of rifles for the same reason you flute a bolt - to clear dirt etc. You really don't know what you are talking about here. HK flutes the chambers so that the extraction doesn't rip the cases in half. HK roller locked weapons are a RECOIL OPERATED system and don't have the inherant unlocking delay that a gas operated weapon does. Your HK will function jut fine with a lubed and unfluted chamber. Other than that it will rip the cases in half.

If either of you own a rifle that might detonate cause the chamber is lubed I suggest you take it back to Toys-R-Us where you bought it ... Nobody said that it would make the chamber detonate. Having lube in the chamber creates excessive bolt thrust which can eventually lead to lug failure.

Seriously - the two of you shouldn't be reloading - way above your pay grades. Above my pay grade maybe but somehow over the last 35yrs I've managed to reload for over 55 different calibers and after several hundred thousands of rounds reloaded I've managed to not blow any firearms up

As far as H&K making a bad idea work, they copied the action mechanism of by far the finest Machine gun in WWII the MG-42 and turned it into some of the finest weapons currently available. Roller-locked weapons have been some of the most successfull small arms ever created.

If you care to do a little research in to Machine guns you'll find out that the ones who required oiled rounds were pretty much miserable failures.

Lubing rounds is a STUPID idea right up there with the guys who magically think their brilliant reloading techniques can magically acheive 200fps faster out of the same rounds in the same barrels as everyone else. Fortunately most modern firearms are built with reserves of strength to withstand excessive pressures but that doesn't mean it's not stupid to load to high pressures and/or cause excessive wear on your firearms action by lubing your ammo......................................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Hey Macifej, When you mention, "If your case construction is heavy enough or you pressure low enough radial expansion of the case is ZERO.", what level of Pressure are you talking about? Any specific Cartridge in mind?

Nothing you'd ever use in a typical hunting rifle. My point was the case itself becomes the projectile and the bullet the bolt face if there were no bolt to stop the case head from recoiling. In that state the case would not obturate and no force applied to the chamber hence no friction.

You can very roughly calculate the potential for case expansion along any point axially using the same formula for hoop and radial stress in barrels. You need to know the section thickness at a given point and the yield strength of case material at the same point. Obviously, drawn brass cases have variable yield and tensile strengths at various locations in the case. This is intentional and affords strength where it's needed ( case head ) and ductility in the case mouth area to gain a proper seal.

Example: this case has a base thickness of .375" and a web thickness of .076". The material yield strength is 48,000 PSI and the mean chamber pressure is calculated at 16,000 PSI. No need to resize the lower 2/3 of the case as it never moves.

Hey Macifej, I appreciate the above input and follow what you are saying.

When you mention the Hoop Stress, that is an area that tnekkcc and another guy who used to post here(Ass Clown) enjoyed discussing.
-----

Had no clue folks would get all fired up about "shiney slick vs, non-shiney non-slick cases in a chamber.

I believe 303Guy "Lubes" some of his Cases, but they may all be Lower Pressure Cartridges.

Hey - I'm not fired up!!

Everyone's entitled to believe in the tooth fairy if it makes them feel better ...

Did tnekkcc actually engage in debate with an Ass Clown ...??

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Originally posted by WiNdTeCh:

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
So is there anyone who believes that the frictional coefficient of 260 brass (already very low) is significantly reduced so as to partially negate the 45,000 to 60,000 PSI expanding the case in all directions ...??

BTB - the case recoils in the chamber long before it expands and then obturates at the mouth. If your case construction is heavy enough or you pressure low enough radial expansion of the case is ZERO.

Believing Flitz increases bolt thrust = believing the Earth is Flat. Sounds right but it isn't ....

If you don't think that brass sticking to sides of a chamber decreases bolt thrust why don't you just go head and lube up your rounds with some nice oil and let a few go. I'd STRONGLY suggest you pull the trigger with a string.
If the brass doesn't stick to the sides of the case walls I wonder why H&K goes through the trouble of fluted chambers on their roller-locked weapons????

I doubt if Flitz in particular greases up cases enough to be an issue but there IS a reason you don't want an oiled chamber. Use your common sense.................................DJ

Agreed... also.... Look up how a semi-auto weapon works.... why do you think it is that the bolt doesn't come back right away.... the case expands first to hold it in the chamber until the bullet leaves and then the bolt comes back.... flitz up your brass and throw them in an AR-15... let me know how your accuracy is...

When did semi-auto come into play here ..?? Look up ..?? Windy - your semi-auto stays locked up cause it's not a blowback design. Case friction has nothing to do with the operating system.

Lube in the chamber of a semi' auto is only a problem if it attracts grit which might cause difficulty feeding. HK flutes the chambers of rifles for the same reason you flute a bolt - to clear dirt etc. You really don't know what you are talking about here. HK flutes the chambers so that the extraction doesn't rip the cases in half. HK roller locked weapons are a RECOIL OPERATED system and don't have the inherant unlocking delay that a gas operated weapon does. Your HK will function jut fine with a lubed and unfluted chamber. Other than that it will rip the cases in half.

If either of you own a rifle that might detonate cause the chamber is lubed I suggest you take it back to Toys-R-Us where you bought it ... Nobody said that it would make the chamber detonate. Having lube in the chamber creates excessive bolt thrust which can eventually lead to lug failure.

Seriously - the two of you shouldn't be reloading - way above your pay grades. Above my pay grade maybe but somehow over the last 35yrs I've managed to reload for over 55 different calibers and after several hundred thousands of rounds reloaded I've managed to not blow any firearms up

As far as H&K making a bad idea work, they copied the action mechanism of by far the finest Machine gun in WWII the MG-42 and turned it into some of the finest weapons currently available. Roller-locked weapons have been some of the most successfull small arms ever created.

If you care to do a little research in to Machine guns you'll find out that the ones who required oiled rounds were pretty much miserable failures.

Lubing rounds is a STUPID idea right up there with the guys who magically think their brilliant reloading techniques can magically acheive 200fps faster out of the same rounds in the same barrels as everyone else. Fortunately most modern firearms are built with reserves of strength to withstand excessive pressures but that doesn't mean it's not stupid to load to high pressures and/or cause excessive wear on your firearms action by lubing your ammo......................................DJ

What do the designbeing failure haave to do with the gun blowing up. You seem to have your arguments mixed up here. It proves that lubing rounds does not blow up guns. Whose stupid idea was that?

The HK is an aptly named retarded blow back system designed to be cheap. The need for a fluted chamber helps make it not cheap. The fluted chamber did the same thing as the MGs that used the oilers, the fluting eases extraction for a system that might not work well otherwise. If the roller locked system is so hot why has it not replaced all rotary bolt locking systems?

quote:

Lubing rounds is a STUPID idea right up there with the guys who magically think their brilliant reloading techniques can magically acheive 200fps faster out of the same rounds in the same barrels as everyone else. Fortunately most modern firearms are built with reserves of strength to withstand excessive pressures but that doesn't mean it's not stupid to load to high pressures and/or cause excessive wear on your firearms action by lubing your ammo......................................DJ

It appears you know nothing about the subject.
Have you ever fired a single lubed round?
BTW you can still go to Varmint Al's site and see how wrong you are.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Lubing rounds is a STUPID idea right up there with the guys who magically think their brilliant reloading techniques can magically acheive 200fps faster out of the same rounds in the same barrels as everyone else. Fortunately most modern firearms are built with reserves of strength to withstand excessive pressures but that doesn't mean it's not stupid to load to high pressures and/or cause excessive wear on your firearms action by lubing your ammo......................................DJ

It appears you know nothing about the subject. Though apparantly a lot more than you do about H&K firearms, roller locked sytems and other items. You need to research machine guns with lubed rounds and then come back and intelligently discuss their complete failures on the battlefield. Hint: look into the Breda and some of the Japanese MG's
Have you ever fired a single lubed round? Yes
BTW you can still go to Varmint Al's site and see how wrong you are. And perhaps you should reread it with a more critical eye. It mostly concerns the use of lubed rounds while fireforming at lower pressures. It is also based on a computer model and not backed up with any actual experimental data, especially that of increased bolt wear and stress due to firing lubed rounds at high pressure.

And perhaps you missed the following quotes from the site you've mentioned:

"Friction this low is probably not physically possible and could be dangerous"

or:

" * Note: I am not suggesting using lubricant on ammunition brass. I am merely trying to identify how this low Coefficient of Friction might possibly be obtained "


Even the source you are quoting makes it a point that he's not suggesting that you lube brass and says that having very low friction between the case and case walls could be DANGEROUS! This is exactly what I've been saying, your own source says the same thing.

- And I would again note that I don't beleive that a highly polished case is going to unduly increase bolt thrust. There is a certain point to where highly polished surfaces can actually increase drag. It's having too much lubricant in your chamber that should be avoided with high pressure rounds.................................DJ