Where do most folks seat them??? .030 off the lands? Case mouth to the top of the top groove? Or what is your starting point?

I am interested in this topic as I have tried them in my 03A3 (3006) with very poor results. There is no way that I can seat bullets far enough out to get close to the rifling unless I am using a bullet that is too long for the 1:10 twist to stabilize.
There is enough room to chamber a cartridge after placing a 180 grain bullet in the breach and still have clearance between the two. with cup and core bullets my gun holds 1/2 MOA five shot groups but it shoots shotgun patterns using the Barnes bullets. I have tried every powder, primer and several bullet weights and have decided that Barnes bullets and my rifle don't get along.

I have solved forty or so rifles for Barnes/E-Tps/GMXs. Any more, just start ~ .050 off the lands, work up the charge until I hit a good node and then if accuracy isn't under an inch I move up to .010 off and start working back .010 at a step.

I don't have an easy way to get there.

Deep, to last driving band.

quote:

Originally posted by BNagel:
Deep, to last driving band.

So you leave the last groove-ring exposed?

I start at .030 off the lands and and then go .010 out to .050 or further off the lands. Most of mine have either shot at .030 or .050. In my Weatherbys, I just load at the max overall length for the caliber and that seems to work fine.

quote:

Originally posted by BNagel:
Deep, to last driving band.

Me too. So far it has been the best starting point.

I have read that .050 is recommended min.

I stick to 0.050 inch and usually I get 1 inch groups or better with hunting rifles. The diameter of these bullets is usually 0.001 inch less than nominal - For example 7mm is 0.283 & 9.3mm is 0.365.

The early X bullets without the bands were sticky & pressure spikes were a problem, fouling was terrible & accuracy was 2" at 100 meters.

Barnes recommends 0.050 inch.

Used the Barnes manual and it works just fine. Consistent 1/2" 3shot groups with the right powder. For both 257 Wby and 338 win mag. Didn't experiment beyond that. Hunting accuracy and then dome.

I've read that you start at 0.50 off the lands and move in from there.

I believe the .050 off the lands min. is to avoid excessive pressure that plagued these bullets years ago

quote:

Deep, to last driving band.

BNagel,

Since you're saying "deep" I guess you're referring to what I would call the first driving band relief groove since it's the closest to the ogive. Let's not split hairs though; as I guess it's simply a matter of which end of the bullet we start counting?



Barnes says to give 'em a running start and I've always done just that.

I've loaded Barnes TSX' & TTSX' in .243 Win, 25-06 Rem, 257 Weatherby, 6.5X57R, 270 Win, 7X57R, 7x64 Brenneke, 7mm Rem Mag, 308 Win, .30/06 Sprg., 300 Win Mag, 300 Weatherby & 8x57. I've also used some of the competitions monmetals; Hornady, Jaguar, LOS & Sax. Currently I prefer the TTSX as they have not only been superbly accurate but the terminal performance is excellent, IMO much better than the "X" or TSX ever was.

In every case (pun intended) I've crimped the bullet into the "first" relief groove (read=closest to the ogive or tip of the bullet) with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Yes, the cartridges appear short(er) and Barnes bullets occupy alot of case capacity but I either don't compress charges too awful much; if at all or go down a notch in powder buring rate in an attempt to keep the density in check.

In every load I've managed a superb level of accuracy (1" or <1" for 3 shots) right off the bat.

While I've elected to try different powders I've never fiddled around with the C.O.A.L. since my notes for Barnse bullets all read "w/Lee FCD in first relief groove". Whatever that C.O.A.L. turns out to be is what I've used and it has worked very well.

Also, for the guys that want to try Barnes I ask them to "squeaky" clean their barrel before trying these bullets, and I mean a down to the bare metal, get all the crud and jacketed bullet smear out of the barrel kinda clean.

Works good but I used to be a once a year good clean kinda guy with all my rifles unless I got caught in alot of crappy weather (O-K., I live & hunt in primarily in Europe!) that required more than a simple wipe-down before they went back in the safe. Yeah, monometal bullets have changed that practice as IMO the accuracy starts dropping off at right @ 40-50 rounds.

I don't think seating depth is too critical as long as they aren't right off the lands. I also crimp them in one of the grooves with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. I don't usually crimp bullets but I've gotten some very accurate loads crimping Barnes TSX and Banded Solid bullets so I think it helps with those.

I have a 35 Whelen that thinks it is trying out for the "Big Bore Benchrest Hall of Fame", while shooting a 225 gr. Barnes TSX over a charge of RL-15, .060" off the lands.

Doug

It seems some rifles just take to them (TSX's) and other don't.

In my .375 H&H...I just loaded some over R-15 and crimped in the top groove with a LFCD and they shot MOA at every charge I loaded. I inched up the charge to get ~2550 and the groups never changed just the POI a little.

I have a .308 Kimber I really like to carry...and I have never been able to get it to shoot less than 1 1/2" at a 100 with TSX's. I am experimenting with other powders right now.

One problem I see with 168 TSX in the .308 is that if you seat them to the last groove...you significantly compress loads of the common .308 powders.

Gerry, you figured it out.

quote:

One problem I see with 168 TSX in the .308 is that if you seat them to the last groove...you significantly compress loads of the common .308 powders.

Lane,

The .308" Barnes 168 gr. is a long-g-g bullet for a 308 Winchester case and eats up alot of powder capacity.

For a Buddy's 308 Winchester I tried the .308" Barnes 130 gr. TTSX. Accuracy is super, terminal performance outstanding and he's getting right @ 3000 fps from this load.

Yes...if the last set of test powders fail to achieve the goal...I am gonna give the 168 gr MRX a go.

So far, in 14 different rifles, form 22 Hornet to 300 Weatherby, I have started at the published COL and have not had to change seating depth yet to get excellent accuracy.

In a friends 2 customs by Hart, a 243 and 300Winmag, we played with seating depth a bit.

I find that they like to be pushed fast. I load 3 at published max, 3 @ 1/2gr less and 3 @ 1gr less, and that's as low as I go. I always try 3 appropriate powders, so I take 27 rounds to the bench for accuracy testing.

In addition, I will load 1 round at 1/2gr and 1gr over published loads to check for high pressures. If deemed safe, I might load 3 at the over-book loads.

I have this one dang rifle that I really want to shoot them in that refuses to give me better that 1 1/2" at 100. I have just hunted with it at that for a couple of years...but periodically...I just get determined to make it shoot a little better.

Like you...many just work from the get go.

at least -.05, though the original X would be -.065 to even start...

I've yet to have the one rifle that doesn't shoot TSX/TTSX bullets well. I have started them at .050 as well, and only once felt like I needed to change that at all.

Well...I shot a series of TTSX in the finicky rifle and had some great results with 2 powders with the DEEEEPPPP seating. I seated and crimped so that the top of the case mouth was at the top of the top groove.

I shot 1 4 shot group of 3/4" and 2 3 shot groups of a 1/2 inch at a 100 yds.

I will go back and measure and post how far that is off the lands but it is al least 0.065 off and likely a smidge farther.

I too start .050 from the lands and go from there. I measured some Barnes vor-tx factory ammo and they are seated +.080 from the lands of one of my rifles. They still shot well in that rifle. The TTSX is my favorite bullet.