The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading WHy can't I get Barnes Bullets to Shoot?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| WHy can't I get Barnes Bullets to Shoot? | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
Serious question... I've been loading ammo since the 1970s. Hundreds of thousands of rounds... (I shot competitively for a long time--so that s a good number) I've tried Barnes bullets in at least 5 calibers and probably 8 different cartridges. I've tried factory ammo and reloads. I can't get them to group for squat. Case in point...today. Shooting my Accumark Mark V in 300 Wby. My handloads with 200gr Hornady ELDX bullets and 76gr of VV 560 put three rounds in 5/8" at 100 yards off a sandbag on my truck hood. Yet the same gun cooled down before I shot it grouped 3.5" with factory Weatherby Ammo loaded with 180gr TTSX bullets. It Sucked. And just to make a point...my pet Sako .270 Winchester put three handloaded 130gr BTs into a tiny cloverleaf...as usual...God I love R22 in that gun/caliber! Today was representative of my Barnes experience. What am I doing wrong. I WANT to like the Barnes bullets but damn.... | ||
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There is a “sweet spot” on bullet seating depth/distance from rifling with TSX and TTSX bullets, in my .300 WM it is .045”, in my .338-06 it is .060. I think Barnes suggests starting at .050”. It takes a bit of experimentation but I get you can find that sweet spot. I use and like RL 22 as well, by far most accurate powder in my .300 WM Karl Evans | |||
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The admittedly limited experience I have with Barnes has resulted in less than stellar accuracy; that plus the high cost led me long ago to stick with the antique bullets made from lead with copper jackets. They still kill stuff. | |||
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I have been killing stuff with jacketed lead bullets for close to 6 decades. The only copper bullets in the house are some 416 350s that I brought cheap at a closeout sale. I worked up a load but never shot anything with them. The whole anti lead movement is truly just a anti-gun anti-hunting movement. Then science behind it sucks. | |||
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I get all that. But I'm going hunting somewhere that requires lead free ammo. SO regardless of the science or how I feel about it I need to shoot them. I'd still prefer lead core bullets too. | |||
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What are you hunting and how much accuracy do you need. A 1.5 to 2 inch rifle well do out to 300 yard with out any problems | |||
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iirc the old manuals says -0.065 and go shorter OAL to try and improve accuracy opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I have an old military mauser 7x57, that will shoot 7" groups with some powders. But with the magic powder H4831 it will shoot 175 barnes under an inch, using a 2.5x scope. For a test, I shortened the barnes bullets 2 rings at a time down to 120 grain. They all shoot under an inch. Powder and primer! Some barnes bullets like to jump. Get Close and Wack'em Hard | |||
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Barnes bullets like a lot faster twist than same weight cup and core. The heavy long bullets are a recent thing. Lots of older rifles have slower twists. | |||
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I live in the land of no-lead, can not find 6mm TTSX on the shelf... At some point, need to (reluctantly) sell off my 85-grain Partition Bullets. So far, 80-grain TTSX has worked in a 6mm-284 (was a 243 before rechambering) and a 6x45mm (9.5 twist), 140-grain TTSX ok in 7mm magnum. I haven't tried any longer ones yet. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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Im not a Barnes fan but most of my guns shoot them well, so Ive used them on ocassion on hunting trips..I just found a load that works and have never been a fan of seating bullets at certain depths, have no idea what any of my rifles measure..I keep a bullet off the lands and make sure it feeds and won't own a gun that shoots over an inch, short of some lever guns, but even they mostly shoot and inch or close..I think most folks get to wrapped up in tech BS when it comes to handloading, its not rocket science IMO.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Just to be contrary, I have had nothing but good luck with Barnes copper bullets, both in factory .308 Win ammo and handloads in 7x57, .243, .250 Savage, .308, .30-40 Krag, .35 Remington, .45-70 and even .458 Mag. And both TSX and TTSX styles. Two things matter, I think; both mentioned above. 1. Because they are so much longer, use considerably lighter copper bullets than you would typically use with lead-core. For instance, even with heavy game, use a .30 cal 150 or 165 gr TTSX instead of a 180 or 200 gr lead-core. Personal experience with up to elk size game showed me that penetration with the .30 cal 150 TTSX was astonishing and effective. 2. Seat them considerably further off the lands than usual with lead-core. Yes, they're expensive. I don't plink with them. But they have always been accurate for me and their performance on game beats anything else I have ever used. | |||
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Howdy Partner ... In truth, long heavy bullets are historically more typical .. the 7x57, 8x57, 303, 7,62x54, and 30-03 (pre-30-06) all used long heavy bullets. For example, the 30-03 and 30-06 use the same twist. the 300 magnums where all 200+ gr loads. it's seldom that one has a twist issue with barnes mono bullets. They don't tend to keyhole opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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IIRC, 50 thou from the lands is the general starting point. | |||
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In rifle. Don't know about pistol. | |||
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I have reloaded many calibers for many rifles and I use Barnes bullets almost exclusively. I use the Optimal Charge Weight method for load development and start .050 off the lands find a good load and if I can't find sub moa accuracy then I then try .060 off the lands with best load so far. Have never had to do anything else. I rarely have trouble achieving below moa accuracy. KY Nimrod PM me your phone number happy to chat with you. 284 win 1/4 inch 140 TTSX  9,3x62 250 grn TSX  300 wsm 175 LRX  another 300 wsm 165 TTSX  308 win 168 TTSX  Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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My experience with Barnes has been like Mike_Dettore's experience. They can and will shoot well in "almost" every rifle and have in all of mine but 1 and even in that one it's a near MOA rifle. The above advice about bullet jump is valuable. They like around 50 thousandths off but some shoot a bit better as close as 30 and some like 60 thousandths off. A little experimenting (fun) is all it take and you've got your load. Not sure how many different critters I've shot with them but 18 elk in a row with them isn't too bad. Zeke | |||
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I load all my Barnes crimped into the most-forward groove. Always sub-moa. I wasted a lot of bullets messing with the lands and whatnot. | |||
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So one of my problems is the 300 Weatherby has about a third of an inch of freebore... SO setting off the lands just isn't feasible...unless you are going to single feed the cartridges. LOL FWIW the Barnes solids I've used in my .375 and .338 have grouped well... | |||
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KY Nimrod, Not sure I understand. Setting farther off the lands is usually not an issue impacted by magazine length. Magazine length impacts getting close to lands and barnes bullets like to be farther away from the lands. I would suggest measuring distance to the lands reduce by 50/1000 and if that won't fit in the magazine then load as longs as you can and fit in the magazine. If the load that is maximum length and still fits in the magazine is not accurate, start reducing by 10/1000 at time. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Do you set your seat die to touch the shellholder and thus get the maximum amount of crimp or do you use something like a Lee factory crimp die? Give me a home where the buffalo roam and I'll show you a house full of buffalo shit. | |||
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Lee factory crimp. Even on the 270. I’ve reloaded 270,06, 338,9.3, 375 the exact same way. All works great. Boringly repeatable for me. | |||
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Everyone does it differently but I don't crimp anything unless it's my 416. Even my thunderous 300 RUM has never needed a crimp with 4 thousandths neck tension. Crimping may or may not impact accuracy but not crimping certainly doesn't negatively impact accuracy. I use the seater die off the shell holder enough to avoid the crimp. Nice thing is, we can all do what we feel is best for us. Zeke | |||
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I'm a huge fan of Barnes bullets. It the only thing I shoot expect for CEB solids or raptors in my 9.3x74R double. I've loaded for approximately 20 different rifles with the TSX and TTSX bullets from 243 all the way to 500 NE, including 2 300 Wby and 2 340 Wby mag rifles. Never had an issue getting good accuracy with any of them. I also crimp into the first groove, being the one closest to the tip. Never messed with adjusting to any certain distance off the lands as it's never been necessary. And on the receiving end, they've almost always provided one shot kills. A couple of buffalo and a one brown bear being the exceptions. Has nothing to do with the anti lead movement. I use them for the performance on game - 100% | |||
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I have used Barnes X bullets in several calibers, for many years, hunting in Africa. Worked very well. Only reason I stopped using them is that I designed and started making my own, based on the Barnes X. These shoot extremely well too. | |||
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The OP is talking about Weatherby factory ammo, not handloads. Sure, all the points above are applicable if you're loading your own, but if a Weatherby rifle in a Weatherby caliber shooting Weatherby ammo won't group to their assurances (1.5" @ 100y), there's something else going on. That's no fault of yours at that point. To further the handloading discussion, I love the TSX and TTSX bullets, too. I've never had an issue getting teeny, tiny groups from them by simply seating the bullets to the OAL listed in the Barnes data. I haven't had to mess with the jump distance to the lands, but that's the first place to start and it's the opposite of every other bullet out there. Farther away is usually better. _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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I disagree. He is only mentioning the factory ammo as an example. If he is not talking about handloading, then why did he mention loading since the 1970s and that his troubles is across multiple rifles and cartridges and why did he follow up talking about magazine length concerns. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Not sure about the caliber in question. But, my own experience is that many people cannot shoot large calibers accurately anyway. | |||
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I started using Barnes Triple X for my first safari to Africa. Was so impressed with the performance of the bullets that I switched all my rifles to them and in every case I was able to get sub MOA groups until I tried them in my Merkel K3. Couldn’t get sub MOA performance with them but did with other bullets and so much so that I knew there was something I was missing. I searched the net and shooting forums and found a forum where there was a guy who was somewhat of a Barnes bullet loading guru. He stated that he had helped many who could not get Barnes bullets to shoot well by giving the bullet a deeper seating depth, thereby giving the bullet more jump to the lands and grooves. I tried it and the Merkel then shot sub MOA and VERY tight to boot. I am a believer in Barnes bullets from small game to Dangerous Game and particularly the TSX which in 375 H&H I have used on everything from springbok to hippo and numerous Cape buffalo. It has never failed to perform but one should always remember that any bullet can fail or underperform in a given set of circumstances. | |||
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This load previously shot 15/16 of an inch at 50/1000 off the lands but I decided to try 60/1000 and it reduced to an average of 5/8 of an inch in my Tikka re-chambered to 284 win  Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I've got some 140 gr ttsx bullets I'll try in my 7-08 Tikka. The freebore on the weatherby is .365" so setting the bullet .050 off the lands is not going to happen. | |||
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This is too complicated for me because I don't understand. | |||
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KY Nimrod: From the Barnes website 1st group- .050” jump 2nd group- .075” jump 3rd group- .100” jump 4th group- .125” jump 5th group- .150“ jump 6th group- * see below You do not have to seat the bullet at, or on one of the cannelure rings. Remember there are many factors that may control or limit the seating depth for your application. You may find that you need to start at around 0.150” off the lands and are not able to get any closer due to limiting factors including proper neck tension and magazine length. *In rifles that have long throats you may be limited on how close you are able to get the bullet to the lands. In these instances, it is not uncommon to find the best accuracy with a jump of .200” or more. In other words, 50/1000 is the starting point. If you need to go all they way .200 that is still acceptable. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Some guns shoot certain bullets and not others, why that is??? A rifle barrel is an enity unto itself, a mesmash of hard and soft steel with gaps and edges that actually and usually comes into its own under cleaning or not cleaning practices but not necessarily as it may shoot better fouled to one degree or another, and on and on and on! You as the shooter are supposed to accept its indiosyincracys (sp????????) or getcha a new barrel..In the posters case I would recommend he not shoot monolithic bullets and try Noslers for instance...Welcome to the gang of confusion that exist on the subject and in internet conversations...  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I only shoot Barnes in big bores.......but Barnes like jump. A lot of jump! | |||
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Here in the UK everybody is switching across to non-lead. Most deer shot are sold into the market via game dealers who have all said they will take non lead shot deer from June 2022. Non lead bullets are less dense than conventional lead core bullets, and especially with long sleek designs like the Barnes you need to drop down a bullet weight or two. Actually forget bullet weight completely, think bullet length, and try a bullet length that is equivalent to one that works with a lead core bullet in your rifle. You don’t need a “heavy” bullet for penetration. Copper bullets penetrate and hold together very well. But they work differently to lead core bullets. Most are designed to open up into a spinning flower that minces a 1 to 1 1/2” diameter core right through the animal causing massive internal bleeding. But you can eat right up to that hole - they leave a much cleaner carcass. You don’t get that grenade gone off inside type effect you get with a cup and core bullet. Shot placement is also slightly different - rather than slipping one into the ribs behind the shoulder to save meat a centre of shoulder shot seems to put most deer down as if polaxed. There have been of large samples and tests on the all the different types of deer we get in UK and they just work on all species from small muntjac, right up to the largest Reds. And sample sizes - several hundred in most studies have demonstrated no real world difference in distance run, time to death etc compared to conventional ammo. Although as noted above much cleaner carcass and not the usual bruising. As to reloading, get the right bullet - so in 7mm we are talking 120, 130, 140 gns. rather than 156 or 164 etc. I find a good crimp helps as well. And drive them fast. We do use the Barnes and the TTSX seems to work reasonably well. But we also have a number of UK and European that are also making bullets. Generally they all prove to be very accurate. If anything tighter grouping and more consistent that cup and core. Hardly surprising giving they are made on lathes, rather in stamping machines. | |||
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Skip the barnes and get some hammer bullets. For your weatherby they make a 178gr "absolute hammer", that I have run up to just shy of 3,400 fps in my .300bee; (magnetospeed measured) but that was just a little too hot in that rifle. They don't like to be pushed that hard in my rifle so I have a couple more modest loads at 3,200-3,240 that group wonderfully. There is no load data for these bullets, check here: https://www.longrangehunting.c...er-load-data.250143/ I'm having good luck so far with IMR-4451 with the 178 grainers. If you want bullets that line up to more conventional load data, check out the "hammer hunters". My .300 also liked the 190gr LRX from barnes but i abandoned those once i started playing with the Hammers. The hammers are not as depth sensitive, so for the weatherby i just load to mag length and roll. | |||
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KY Nimrod Did you ever try a different primer??? I have a Savage Model 25 in a 223 cal. It shot factory loads with excellent results could touch holes at 100 yds, I started to reload for it using remington primers, Could not hold a 2 inch group at 100 yds,I played around with seating, powder, and bullets,best I got was a 2inch group. Then I had some old Federal primers,don't know where I got them or if somebody gave them to me and OH MY GOD!!! I was back to touching at 100 yds. Not saying this is your problem, but just a suggestion try a different primer | |||
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I've used Barnes bullets for 20 years and can always find an accurate load. One of the things that I see a lot of people mention is that they have to scrub all the jacketed material out of their bores before testing with Barnes bullets. In my own experience this hasn't mattered but other people swear by it.  Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Frank, Very much the way I do it, except I use .4 grain increments. That way when I find the node (two similar group sizes with similar POI), I can just split the difference. It would be interesting to see how 51.9 shoots. If it was similar to the 51.5, you could settle on 51.7 and call it good - well actually fantastic. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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