Today I pulled some factory rounds of Norma .375 H&H ammo and also deprimed the brass. I don't know what brand primers Norma uses but was surprised to see that anvils had separated from most of the primers. In all my years of depriming, several brands, this is the only time I have seen this happen.
Mostly with deprimed primers I recycle them into practise or fouling loads.
The question is; with these anvil-less primers would you still put them to use or would they cause pressure problems in igniting charges ?
I would rather use them if OK but don't want any safety problems.
Cheers

photo sharing

Sell them as Berdan primers

Seriously I would load them just as you would if the anvils hadn't separated. Just make sure fingers are dry or use tweezers to place the anvil in the cup before seating. Probably not worth the effort for the price of a few primers but you sound like me, waste not want not.
I've used live decapped primers for hunting and never had a problem. Using these primers is little different than using Berdan primers where you are seating the cup to the fixed anvil in the primer pocket. Never had a misfire using Berdan primers in my 404.

I probably wouldn't use them for serious hunting ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
I probably wouldn't use them for serious hunting ammo.

The anvils are there for a very good reason. I personally wouldn't use them.

Unless you live in place where primers are hard to get. Then I would replace the anvils as best I could.

I wouldn't rely on them for hunting because that's when they wouldn't work.[murphy's law]

put them back together and use them for some sight in rounds.[mark them with a marker]

primers work by crushing that red stuff between the firing pin and the anvil.
as long as everything is there and seated properly they will go off.

I bet every single one of them would work just fine.

Make sure you have the anvil in before seating them,

I suspect they would function, but if the anvil is distorted, and thus falling out, I’d be REALLY careful repriming the cases with them.

I have "decommissioned" old or suspect primers, complete with anvils, before by placing on a solid block and whacking with a hammer. Usually one whack and the primer "bangs". Yesterday I did the same with one of these anvil-less primers. It took three to four hits, even crushing the cup quite a bit, before "bang" occurred. I think if I can reinsert the anvils and carefully seat these primers into fouling and sighting loads they will ignite the charge as normal. Will give at least some a try.

They'll be fine.
Like you I'm puzzled as to why the anvil has separated from the cup during depriming. They often do when decapping fired primers as could be expected but I have never had one do that when depriming unfired primers and I've done a few over the years.
Check your depriming pin for any tip damaged or maybe the pin is bent slightly. Could be that the pin is not pushing square to the centre of the anvil and is giving the anvil a slight kick, freeing it in the cup as it decaps?
I'm sure the primer anvils would have been crimped in the cups as they are when new and loaded. In all my years of handling primers in flip trays and charging primer tubes I have never had a new primer anvil pop out from the cup.

deprimed primers don't look normal?

i have used just about every known primer in the States over the last ~35 years .. and many times i've had fired primers fall apart, though not likely it was even 10%, but i do NOT pay attention to the bulk of my primers .. just have them go into a bucket (at first) then into a plastic bottle, as a joke for guns shows "used primers for sale, only used once"

myself, i don't like depriming live primers, and usually would pull down the brass, then "fire" the primers in a rifle before taking them down ...

and it would be some pretty special circumstances before i would reuse a pulled primer

but that's just me

Gents, one and all,
Thanks for the comments.
Eagle, I checked the die. I have 2 x sets of Redding .375 H&H dies and realised I hadn't used the usual die for decapping. The pin is perfect but the stem was slightly off centre. Don't know what bearing this could have as the case primer hole should centre the pin when it goes through. As I said in my first post the anvil separation is most unusual. I have decapped many live primers over many years and never seen this before. If I can manually replace some anvils I will try some of these primers in fouler loads and see what happens. I have always reused decapped live primers in fouler and some practise loads. I've never had a failure to fire but I've never compared them to loads with virgin primers so am ignorant as to whether loads are in any way affected.

As far as I know, Norma use RWS 5333 (magnum LR) primers in almost ammunition with large primers.

Jeffeosso said, "i have used just about every known primer in the States over the last ~35 years .. and many times i've had fired primers fall apart, though not likely it was even 10%, but i do NOT pay attention to the bulk of my primers .. just have them go into a bucket (at first) then into a plastic bottle, as a joke for guns shows "used primers for sale, only used once"

myself, i don't like depriming live primers, and usually would pull down the brass, then "fire" the primers in a rifle before taking them down ...

and it would be some pretty special circumstances before i would reuse a pulled primer

but that's just me"


And me, I say.
Zeke

30.06king, you must have nerves of steel! I'm not surprised the anvils fall off when you decap, more that other brands' don't fall off.

Though they probably serve well enough used once, I'd leave it at that.

What makes you inclined to pull down so much factory ammo? Also, do you ever hear a crack sound when pulling the bullet? Bill Hambly-Clark Jnr says in his book on centrefire accuracy that bullets can become chemically welded to the cases, perhaps by electrolysis, a condition he thinks will lift pressures.

His answer is to only load as much ammo as needed immediately and to slightly deepen the seating of old rounds before use. In the event there is a cracking sound when this is done, he assumes this indicates 'welding' and won't use that batch of ammo. I'd be more inclined to just do that operation shortly before use and assume the 'weld' had been broken.

quote:

sambarman338

30.06king, you must have nerves of steel! I'm not surprised the anvils fall off when you decap, more that other brands' don't fall off.

Though they probably serve well enough used once, I'd leave it at that.

What makes you inclined to pull down so much factory ammo? Also, do you ever hear a crack sound when pulling the bullet? Bill Hambly-Clark Jnr says in his book on centrefire accuracy that bullets can become chemically welded to the cases, perhaps by electrolysis, a condition he thinks will lift pressures.

His answer is to only load as much ammo as needed immediately and to slightly deepen the seating of old rounds before use. In the event there is a cracking sound when this is done, he assumes this indicates 'welding' and won't use that batch of ammo. I'd be more inclined to just do that operation shortly before use and assume the 'weld' had been broken.

Sambar,
I've decapped primers, both factory and my own loads, for so long I guess I regard it as routine. I've never had any issue and recycling the primers into practise and fouler loads has also been unremarkable.
The reason I decapped this latest batch of .375 H&H brass was because someone wants to develop a load for a new rifle and needed new brass urgently. This was the fastest way I could provide it. On other occasions I've pulled rounds and decapped brass to obtain brass for my own loads. I have a little factory ammo on hand usually, for purposes of roughly sighting in newly mounted scopes and the like but never had any that shot as well as my handloads.
I've never experienced "welding" with factory ammo but have ( I think ) with my handloads. Many years ago I loaded some ammo using brass which I think was "rotten" if that's possible. For some reason I never shot this ammo and stored it for several years. I decided to pull the bullets and recycle the brass. Every single bullet must have "welded" to the necks because when pulled all brass ripped apart at the shoulder and all bullets stayed attached to the necks of the cases. A sad waste of bullets and brass.
My practise is to load enough ammo to last a few weeks and to shoot it before making another batch.

Thanks, I must remember that and do likewise. As a cautious reloader I tend to use factory loads for anything long distance - because I'm rarely game to load up to those velocities myself.

No onehas mentioned that when primers are seated for the second time, they are noticeably less tight in the pocket.

I have decapped plenty of live primers, but only reseated a few. Personally I don't think reuse is worth the bother, although it is definitely easier to use them for practise than it is to get rid of them. I usually keep them in a container of oil or kerosene or petrol until I am burning rubbish and then throw them in the fire. They all go bang, even if they have been immersed for months.
If one is careful, I don't understand the safety paranoia about decapping live primers. Even if one should go off in the press, there is plenty of room for the gas to escape and no damage will be done to anything, unless your head/eye is over the case mouth, which would be rather Darwinian.

quote:

secondtry

posted 17 November 2019 10:43
No one has mentioned that when primers are seated for the second time, they are noticeably less tight in the pocket.

If one is careful, I don't understand the safety paranoia about decapping live primers. Even if one should go off in the press, there is plenty of room for the gas to escape and no damage will be done to anything, unless your head/eye is over the case mouth, which would be rather Darwinian.

Your post reminds me of a couple of things.
Second time seated primers could be a little less snug ( not something I have found generally ) but have nevertheless stayed in the pockets well enough. Something I have found though is not all case pockets are the same depth. I like my primers seated below the case head surface level. Some recycled primers projected from the pockets of some brands of brass but seated deeper into other brands. It's worth checking that recycled primers seat deep enough before primimg too many cases.
Your safety comment about decapping, and for that matter actual priming, is a good one. I have only one eye and wear safety glasses when priming or decapping and I keep my face away from the case mouth. Nothing has ever happened to me but good safety practices are cheap and sensible.

At the price of primers, I'd just toss them, but to each his own on that. Like Jeffe I don't like punching live primers, although I have on occasion in the past, but I did a lot of things in the past that I don't do now!!

I stopped depriming with the press and use various hand tools to prime both pistol and rifle cases.

For the price of a primer I'd soak them in oil for a few days and then toss or bury.

Updating this thread after using about 50 of these primers in fouler loads.
No problems at all. Just dropping the anvils into the primer cups in their normal position, carefully priming the case and reloading. Everything at ignition is as one would expect with normal, complete primers. No failures to fire.

Just read this; Saeed is right; they will work fine.
Soak them in oil? Primers are sealed; soaking them in anything won't reliably kill them, and why waste them?
AND; DO NOT smash primers with a hammer. If you question why, come over and I will show you the scar where they dug the piece of primer out of my index finger, when I was about 10. My cousin and I would line them up on his concrete wall and pop them off.

Thanks for the update, you could have used them all for hunting rounds no problem.
Actually thinking about it when seeing your photo of the primer sitting in the primer ram without the anvil, it is exactly what you see when using Berdan primers so all you are doing is popping an anvil on top then seating the anvil and quasi 'berdan' primer together.

I've loaded more than a few Berdan primers when using Kynoch cases for my 404 and have never experienced a misfire. Like any primer just have to make sure they are seated hard to the bottom of the pocket.