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About to begin stocking my 404 and will be gathering up reloading supplies soon. Need to stock up on brass and a die set. How do you guys rate Hornady stuff? Thanks, Bob | ||
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I've loaded it pretty hot, in my accrel cartridges opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeffeosso, Thanks. I know you use a lot of H335, do you recommend it for the 404 also? I loaded some 350gr Hornadies with H335 in my .458 and got a hell of a muzzle flash. Bob | |||
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VFR1, There will be others with other load advise but I found H4350 to be very good with the 400gn Woodleigh soft and a few RWS solids with 84gn giving me 2335fps and great accuracy in Norma and RWS brass. Von Gruff. | |||
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The 404 might be too low pressure to use h335 unless you are willing to go far faster than 2250. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I'm not sure what tha means? H335 would be far too fast for anything but lower vel laods in the 404j. Better pwoders start @ around Varget & go SLOWER. My best accuracy & vel combos have been w. IMR4831, RL19 & VV160 w/ 380-400gr bullets. H4350 is great w/ 340-350gr bullets. I haven't tried any of the Hornady brass. I put mine together before Hornady was int eh 404 game & have RWS or Norma. Hornady brass in other calibers has proven to be quality though, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. The Norma brass is stupidly priced now days. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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i meant, with h335, you will quickly pass the slower powders .. VERY quickly .. if using 2250 as the actual benchmark of the 404, which is the historically correct loading. my 416 accrel starting loads where way past 2250, and according to QL was fairly low pressure. there's no point in burning, or not-actually-burning more powder, inho yes, 2250 is the historical target load, as 2400 is the second and higher pressure load, obviating at least one of the bright points of the 404 here's the deal.. in my opinion.. more powder means more recoil .. and i use h335 from 222 through 550 magnum... the ONLY time i use slower powders is in overbore cases... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I just started loading 404J with Hornady brass and dies. This combo is working well. I'm using RL 17 which Hornady has published data on. I like the RL 17 load as it provides all the velocity you want at modest charge weights and seems very accurate. The dies arrived with a cross threaded expander ball but Hornady replaced that quickly. A new spindle and ball arrived two days after I called them. Cliff NRA Life Member CMP Distinguished Rifleman NRA Master, Short and Long Range | |||
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Thanks guys. I have seen loads posted from 3031 to 4350. I used 4895 in my 10.75 with good success. I have 335, 3031, 4895, R15 and 4350. Will try these first. Happy New Year. Bob | |||
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Ok, I see your point. I liek medium burners to reach 2205fps as the pressures are lower. That is the point of using them vs faster powders. Using H335 is going to get you much higher pressures @ 2250fps than say H4350 or IMR4831. I just don't see the point of running the cartrdige @ higher pressures to achieve the same vel. Plus the added benefit of a fuller case volumn which often seems to enhance accuracy. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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fred .. no... h335 is going to get you to 2250 faster than the slower powders.. less powder to burn .. but keeping it under 2250 will be tough ... getting 2250 from a heavy charge of slow powder will cause more recoil AND more wear and tear on your barrel ... you'll hit 2400 very quickly with h335 .. the case is very large ... and you won't exceed operating pressures ... pressure is NOT velocity . not once, not ever, in gunpowder .. air pressure, sure .. but if pressure=velocity then reloading books would all have the same max pressure load AND velocity, not max load at DIFFERNT velocities .. don't argue, go to hodgedon's reloading pages and LOOK at the pressures listed .. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp some powders give much higher pressure and lower vels, at the same time ... but, if you dont believe me, that's fine .. doesn't change anything, but most folks have it firmly in their mind that pressure=vel .. just aint true, as a rule .. only in exception and that largely being increasing the same powder/case combo pressure, to a point.. if it was true, then a 308 and a 300 rum would be the same vel at the same pressur, every time .. they aint .. why? bigger case and different powders are the apparent reason .. but its more basic than that... work is related to veloctuty, not pressure .. pressure is one part of work, but not directly .. gas volume/expansion ratio and time are work ... over charge with pistol powder results in TONS of pressure, and zero vel .. cuz the gun blew up .. low pressure, over too much time results is low vels, as it doesn't expand ... h335 is a great powder, for a huge range of not-over-bore cases ... once you get overbore, you have to burn slow powder .. what some folks call mediums ..rel 17 is NOT a medium burn rte powder, as its slower the even h414 http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html but we might be talking different scales .. anything slower than h414/win760 is slow powder to me.. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The original historical velocity of the 404 Jeffery was 2125 FPS with a 400 grain bullet. I my loadings I still prefer RL-15 with foam filler. The recoil is milder. Once you start climbing above 2200 FPS you'll fined plenty of satisfaction if you are a recoil junky! I am fortunate to have a supply of BeLL 404 Jeffery brass. The Hornady brass I have reloaded works just fine. I think it is a good quality brass. DGX bullets are very accurate especially out of my Mauser Model M03 barrel! I like both of my 404 Jeffery rifles. Even reduced loads with 300 grain Hawk bullets makes what Jeff calls a "Pig Bomb"! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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The only way H335 gets to 2250fps faster thqn say IMR4831, is by running at higher pressures. That is also easily seen in Hodgdon's tables. So I am not sure how you determine that running @ lower pressures w/ higher volumn of slower powder is going to cause more wear on a bbl? Most "barrel burners" are high vel/high pressure/smaller bore rigs shooting large volumn of slower powders. In a 0.423" dia bbl, you would have to be packing in the uberslow powders to get that type of affect & even then, I doubt it in such a large bore. To say pressure has nothing to do with vel is just ignoring some physics. An example from the site: 400 GR. HDY JRN Hodgdon H4350 .416" 3.560" 85.0 2305 41,400 CUP 88.0 C 2395 46,400 CUP 400 GR. HDY JRN IMR IMR 3031 .416" 3.560" 75.0 2315 52,100 CUP Not a perfect example, but note that 3031 gives significantly higher pressure for 2315fps than H4350 does. 3031 is pretty close to H335. So a 10kcup lower pressure for the same vel is telling me pressure certainly has a lot to do with vel. FWIW, I clasify H4350 as a medium-slow powder, H335 as a medium fast powder. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Fred, if pressure meant "Everything" to velocity, we'd all load 300 rum with unique. Work means the most .. time/pressure curve. Think of it as dwell time. For example, a longer barrel is (almost) always results in higher velocity, right? even at the same pressure? Because the pressure has more TIME to WORK on the bullet if the load is 50K psi, and one load peaks at .001second and maintains about 75% of pressure vs another that peaks at .005s, and maintains 75% of pressure, it is LIKLY that the first load will result in higher velocity at the same pressure playing it backwards, loading with LESS pressure, with a quicker rise in top pressure, but maintaining a higher WORK, the less pressure load, faster, MAY result in the same or higher velocity .... TIME is far more important than pressure, in a relative sense. and we are talking about different scales of burn rate.. 296 is fast to me, h335 is medium, win 760 is slow, and past that, its magnum/very slow burning powders -- which is why 748 is considered medium, 760 slow, and 780 as magnum in call cartridges that are NOT overbore, slower powders tend to result in slower velocities, at the same pressure. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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RL15 for 404? Found a pound on my shelve. Bob | |||
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RL-15 for a 404 ? Yes sir. Just use a foam or a tuft Dacron polyfill to hold it against the primer. Between 64 and 67 grains should do you good. 67 grains of RL-15 a 400 grain Woodleigh should give you historical 2125 FPS from a 26 inch barrel. You should also note a slight reduction in recoil. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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I like RL15 or medium burners like that for 300-350gr bullets, but prefer the medium slow powders for the heavier bullets. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Rusty, I used my 10.75 Mauser loaded to 2140 with AFrames this year with good results. I would like to load the .404 just a tad hotter to about 2250fps. The AR Reloading pages call for 75gr of RL15 to achieve this velocity. What do you think? See you in Dallas. Bob | |||
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