Hi all, I'm shooting a caliber with a large case capacity (500 Jeffery) and was wondering which of the large rifle magnum primers is the hottest (and hopefully) most consistent. Right now I'm using Rem 9 1/2Ms because I have them, but they are rated as the coolest of the bunch from what I've read. I would like to use something hotter but consistent. My book, Art Alphin's "Any Shot You Want" rated Winchester 8 1/2Ms the hottest, followed by Federal 215 and CCI 250. Does that match your experience?

Thanks,

Chuck

215 or 215M .. i USED to use win LRM, but those provided me with hangfires on the 500 jeffe

Thanks Jeff, I had one hangfire with my Jeff using a light load of 91g H4895 and a 570g TSX, kinda scary. Right now I'm loading 101g of H4895 but still only getting 2100 fps. I attribute this to my long OAL of 3.73" and my cool primer (Rem 9 1/2 M). Accuracy is very good, so I plan to seat the bullets deeper to the next groove up (OAL of 3.60") and make sure accuracy doesn't suffer. If it does, I'll go back to 3.73" OAL. Then I figure to change the primer first and then walk up the powder charge until I get to 2300 fps. Recoil is gentle offhand at 2100 fps ...

Everything is relative,

Thanks again,

Chuck

As I recall, the latest stuff I have seen on this subject places the Winchester Large Rifle Magnum at the top of the heap for "hot" primers.
The Fed 215 is is rated close behind.

I would think either of them would be a good choice for your cartridge.

And yes, the Rem 91/2M is considered pretty mild among magnum primers.

Here's the chart I use for primer warmth.



Don

"Hot" and "consistant" rarely run in the same package.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
"Hot" and "consistant" rarely run in the same package.

Always trying to learn
How do you know this to be true?
Reason I ask is a lot of people swear the 215M gives the best results on big magnums.

Well lets compare flame spread with intensity for a visual look , some of you may wish to reconsider your

choices . http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html ;

Thanks guys, I haven't found any Federal 215Ms yet but I did get two boxes of CC Large Rifle Magnum primers at the local gun store! Couldn't believe it. So I'll run my tests with my Rem 9 1/2Ms and CCI's if I can't find the Federals.

Thanks for all of the help, Doc, great link,

Chuck

12X grains of (iirc)wc846 gave about 1 in 5 hangfires with 550gr cast bullets ... using WLRM .. ZERO hang fires with federal 215 ..

a hang fire with slowish powder and BLOW UP your gun

a hang fire on a 500 jeffe WILL focus your powers of concentration and keep you on target.

when you hear click..BANG on a 500jeffe, there is a large pucker factor ...

click(waitforit)with 90-120# of recoil SUCKS

problem went away with same load with federal 215s ...

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
Well lets compare flame spread with intensity for a visual look , some of you may wish to reconsider your

choices . http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html ;

I borrowed this as it may interest some of you .

`Benchrest' primers are typically more uniform in their ignition
characteristics than `standard' primers. The process of mixing the
lead styphnate (the explosive), glass frit (the microscopic glass
particles that act as micro-anvils for the styphnate to compress
against) and a couple of other things is a kind of `black magic.'
About two quarts of this priming mixture is mixed together for each
lot of primers. Getting the mixture homogenous (uniform percentages)
throughout the gooey mixture is difficult. This mixture is spread
on a plate with little recesses in it that are the shape of the
primer pellet. Getting exactly the same amount in each little round,
deep hole is also a type of `black magic.' The mixture is much like
putty and a large putty-knife like tool is used to force the mixture
into each hole where it's left to dry. Then the dried primer pellets
are punched out and put in primer cups, topped with a sealer, and
finally the three-legged anvil is pressed in place.

Interestingly enough, some folks do a better job of mixing and spreading
the mixture than others. Within each lot of several thousand primers,
there's bound to be differences in the ignition characteristics from one
primer to the next. As more care is needed to make `uniform' primers,
they usually cost more.

By uniformity, I mean the consistancy of velocity they produce. Velocity
tests of the bullet is about the best test of primer uniformity. Some
very uniform lots of primers will produce a velocity spread of only 15 fps.
At the other end of the spectrum are primers that produce velocity spreads
of 100 fps, or more. Some folks have tested primer uniformity by shooting
BBs from a primed case (no powder) in a 17 caliber barrel; primers that
produce low velocity spreads with BBs do the same with powder and bullets.
Uniform primers tend to produce more uniform pressure curves, too.

Alas, not all the `benchrest' primers are as good as they're marketed to
be. Many times a standard primer will be more uniform than benchrest ones.
And some makes of benchrest primers aren't as uniform as another make of
standard primer. Even some standard primer brands are more uniform than
any benchrest brand. Some benchrest primers are hotter than their standard
versions for the same make.

In many accuracy situations, a milder, standard primer will produce better
groups than a hotter benchrest primer.

From another source /

Regular primers and magnum primers are the same physical size and will fit the same cartridges - so how do you know which style to use? And, what's the difference anyway? One guideline for choosing standard or magnum primers is to simply use whichever style was used when the load data you are using as a reference was developed. Load manuals usually state what primers their loads use and, in general, following their lead is wise.

When you are developing a load not directly out of a manual, there are some guidelines that can help you decide standard or magnum. Ironically, these guidelines do not directly involve whether your particular cartridge is termed a "magnum" or not. Here are some things to consider:

are the loads going to be used at extremely low temperatures?

* are you using a ball powder?
* are your powder charges over 60 grains?

If any of these conditions are true, magnum primers are a consideration. If two or more of the conditions are true, then magnum primers are probably the better choice. At very low temperatures ammo has a tendency to have a lower velocity than may have been expected. Using magnum primers seems to help offset this velocity loss. Many, but not all, ball powders are a bit harder to get to burn cleanly than extruded powders. Using magnum primers helps get a cleaner, more uniform ignition with these powders. Large powder charges also will often benefit from the use of magnum primers.

As you may have deduced from the above, magnum primers generally are "hotter" than standard primers. They provide a bit more ignition punch. Which leads to a discussion of relative hotness (brisance) of various large rifle primers. The chart at left shows one ranking of the relative hotness of commonly-used large rifle primers. Some experienced reloaders would place the WLR a bit higher - above the Rem 9-1/2M.
Federal 215 Hotter
WLRM
CCI 250
Rem 9-1/2 M
WLR
Fed 210
CCI BR2
CCI 200
Rem 9-1/2 Cooler

bri·sance (brĭ-zäns', -zäɴs')
n. The shattering effect of the sudden release of energy in an explosion.

The Flame by Doc ;
Primer brisance mostly depends on the length of the flame that leaps out of the flash-hole after the firing pin whacks the primer cup. This flame can also be manipulated to last a little longer, by adding tiny particles of other flammable material to the priming compound. These differences really can affect not just accuracy but also pressure.

Last but not least is for my fellow AR Forum colleagues of chemical knowledge .

http://www.etcmd.org/conference-docs/papers/allen.pdf

Jeffeosso I agree, a hang fire with a 500 Jeffery is very scary. I kept the rifle pointed down range and counted to 30 real slow, then worked the bolt as fast as I could to extract the round with the rifle still pointed down range. I haven't had the issue with 101g of H4895 and plan to seat my bullets deeper. I would love to switch over to Federal 215s only I can't find any!! I will keep looking, I have a friend who has a small armory, I asked him to look for me today.

Regards,

Chuck

Thanks much Doc,


Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Thanks Jeff, I had one hangfire with my Jeff using a light load of 91g H4895 and a 570g TSX, kinda scary. Right now I'm loading 101g of H4895 but still only getting 2100 fps. I attribute this to my long OAL of 3.73" and my cool primer (Rem 9 1/2 M). Accuracy is very good, so I plan to seat the bullets deeper to the next groove up (OAL of 3.60") and make sure accuracy doesn't suffer. If it does, I'll go back to 3.73" OAL. Then I figure to change the primer first and then walk up the powder charge until I get to 2300 fps. Recoil is gentle offhand at 2100 fps ...

Everything is relative,

Thanks again,

Chuck

Maybe it's the bore dia. but my 404j runs great w/ RP 9 1/2M under 85gr of IMR4831. A much slower powder than 4895. The Fed. 215 are pretty hot, but not that much more then the RP, at least my chronograph isn't giving much vel, increase. Accuracy w/ the RP is actually a bit better for me than the 215.

Fred, my problem was and is load density, a cooler primer just makes that problem worse. If I had sufficient load density at the time (91g of H4895 was not sufficient and an OAL longer that standard further decreased it), I wouldn't have had an issue. At 101g of H4895 I think I'm over that, but I still plan to seat the bullet further in and switch to Federal 215s then work my way up in powder charge. Achieving 2300 fps with a 570g TSX should solve any load density problems. Shoulder problems are another matter.



Chuck

jeffeosso, I found 2000 Federal 215 primers and scarfed them up, so I will use them esclusively in my 500 Jeffery. My last loads with a 570g TSX, Jamison Brass, Rem 9 1/2M primers with 103g H4895 seated to an overall length of 3.63 were very accurate and clocked out at 2175 fps which I'm happy with. I'll start a few grains lower with the 215s and work my way up.

Thanks again,

Chuck

best of luck, Chuck

Hi all, I switched to Federal 215 primers at Jeffeosso's recommendation since even though my current load of 570g TSX, 103g H4895 is near max by my A-Square manual, case density is still kind of low. Velocity averaged out to 2250 fps (75 fps faster than the same powder charge with my Rem 9 1/2M primers!). I shot two consecutive 3 shot groups at 100 yards.
The first group measured 1.5" center to center including one "flyer" (I definitely pulled it a bit).



The second group measured just under an inch center to center.



The next time I go out, I'll put a 1/2" diameter bright stick on bullseye on the targets since I believe it's my lack of consistency of hold that's opening the groups up. I finished sighting in after shooting these groups and set my scope to be 2" high at 100 yards which puts me dead on at 25 yards and 165 yards and 3" low at 200 yards. All in all I'm happy with this load as good enough to hunt with until North Fork comes out with their 570g and 600g Softpoints. I think a North Fork 600g Softpoint at 2300 fps would be sweet!



Regards,

Chuck