Kreiger is in the midst of working on a blueprinted M700 I am having a 26" barrel fitted and chambered for a 280 AI. More details on that in another post as the project moves along...

I am anxious to begin collecting reloading components so I will be ready to go when the rifle arrives.

There have been several discussions in the past about doughnuts and such using the Nosler brass. In light of that, I am trying to decide if I which brass I want to go with.

I don't mind fireforming brass because most of it is done during barrel break-in anyway.

Norma 280 Rem. vs. Nosler 280 AI

Either can be had for the same price of about $110 per 100 pieces (ouch... but the stuff lasts forever in the AI), so the price difference is not an issue either.

Thanks in advance!

Question:
Given your real-world experience, which would you choose?

(please comment below)

Choices:
Norma - 280 Rem
Nosler - 280 AI
I have never tried either personally and therefore shouldn't really vote but I can't hlep myself from clicking on polls

 

And for the sake of reference, here are some other relevant discussions we've had on AR re: 280 AI brass.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...201031511#9201031511

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=669103315#669103315

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=894101529#894101529

http://forums.accuratereloadin...801083311#7801083311

I use 280 Norma for the majority of my wildcats.It will give you about 3grs more capacity than the Nosler.

I bought some Nosler 280 (non AI) didn't like it and sold it.

Hey Kenati

Thanks for the links to some of those old posts. Very entertaining!

I voted for the Norma since I do have experience with Nosler. Not that the Nosler is bad brass and I don't think it is the brass's fault that the 280AI develops do-nuts. But, by contrast, the 280 Rem brass I started using is working out well, it is Nosler also.

In the past I have used Norma and considered it pretty good stuff. Lighter than most, like WW brass, but better stuff.

Fireforming can be quite accurate as long as you don't try forming a false shoulder

On the issue of which brass to use, I know which camp I stand in. If .280 AI brass is available, I would much prefer to use that, rather then fireform other brass. (Caveat: naturally, the .280 AI brass has to be of comparable quality to the brass considered for fireforming).

I have a couple of reasons for this: I personally question whether the additional work of fireforming brass is really worth the effort to go from a .280 Rem to a .280 AI. But if .280 AI brass is readily available (make sure you lay in a good supply), the .280 AI cartridge is a great choice.

In my case, I found that not only did I have to fireform .280 Rem brass (no .280 AI brass was available when I first had an AI chamber cut), I also realized that my cases workhardened in the fireforming process. So, fireforming for me had to be followed by annealing. Let's see how many steps were involved in getting brass I could use for hunting: neck up, neck down (to create false shoulder, to ensure good brass life), load, fire, anneal. Man, that seems a lot of work for 80-100 fps extra...

In addition, unless you have a fireforming barrel, you'll reduce the lifetime of your main (custom) barrel in the fireforming process. Yes, maybe you can use fireforming loads for something "sensible", but I found that if I wanted to go hunting, I wanted finished brass and loads of full potential.

All in all, if fireforming .280 Rem brass was the only option, I would no longer have bothered with the AI. Now that .280 AI brass is available, I would consider the cartridge an excellent choice.

- mike

All I have used thus far is nosler as I've not seen norma available for quite sometime.I thought I read once that norma made the brass for nosler?? I have, however had no issues with the nosler brass and find it well made. With my rifle I will usually see some groups between 1/2"-3/4" with TTSX/RL22. I think it's a great caliber.

When I got my 280 Rem AI in 1998 green box 280 Remington 140 grain CoreLokt ammo could be had for about $9 a box. Today its $20-30, about the same price as Nosler 280 AI and Norma 280 brass. It was a good way for me to get and fireform brass for the 280 AI. However, someone starting today might as well get the properly headstamped brass available and start from there. I've gotten great accuracy and case life with Remington brass, I would expect the same from Nosler. Over the years I've read much about the virtues of Norma 280 Remington brass but have not used it myself.

Kenati, I have only used Nosler 280 AI Brass for my rifle. I have not experienced the development of any doughnuts at all, and have reloaded the initial 50 pieces 4 times.

For many of the same reasons MHO posts, I would choose to go with brass already made in the 280AI if I could get it, so for both of these reasons, I voted for the Nosler brass. I am using 7828 and 140 gr TTSX and Accubonds, as well as 160gr AB's. I am really liking the performance I have seen with AB's so far....The TTSX's are very accurate also BTW. One interesting point, I use the Hornady dies on this rifle, and had to grind a few thousandths off of the bottom of the die in order to be able to push the shoulder back such that it would chamber properly....

I like Norma brass, but I actually prefer the Nosler in cases where I have used both. In my 280AI, I have discovered what many folks have advised happens in AI cartridges, ONE grain of powder made a BIG difference in 'typical' pressure signs, i.e. stickly bolt. I could NOT discern differences in CHE or PRE that were disconcerting, but when I got a sticky bolt, I backed of 2.5 grains from that charge, and called it my personal max for that powder and cartridge--that LOT of powder just to be specific.

I haven't shot enough of this cartridge to comment on case life, but steep shouldered cartridges have had good case life for me typically, i.e. Dakota and WSM cartridges--don't know if that's a good comparison or not, JME....

Oh Yeah, on those old posts, it was entertaining, especially me getting slapped around by Woods and HC. After a measuring consultation, I ended up being right, and pushing the shoulder back about 3.5 to 4 thousandths to get the fit I liked, and this rifle is shooting very well, as it always has actually......

Ramrod, woods, mho, jackfish, and Fish30114-

I thank all of you very much for responding. We sometimes take AR for granted, but can you imagine how many "riflemen" you'd have to ask this specific esoteric question before you'd actually get an opinion worth a damn?

Thanks again!

Kenati, I'm alittle late on posting but here my experience with the 280AI.

I had my 280AI chamber before Nolser came out with their 280AI so I fireformed Rem brass. The new Rem 280 brass if I filled it to the top of the neck with H-4350 was appr 66gr of powder after fireforming and resized capacity was appr 70gr of powder. Later I got some Nolser 280AI cases and they fit my chamber again using same powder top of neck was appr 70grs of powder.

I've got about 4/5 firing on the Rem brass haven't had problems with it I use Wilson neck die and seater for sizing use Redding body die.

I got 150 Nosler 280AI cases been shooting some of that been good cases. I've got another 280AI in the works same gunsmith/reamer.

I fireformed all my cases using the COW method and since I can load at the range after I got afew fireformed cases I broke barrel in and got some load developemnt done on that first range
trip.

I haven't had any problem with inside donut my inside neck reamer measure .284 I do keep check on the Rem brass.

I haven't notice a big difference between the Rem/Nosler brass in groups to say which is best rifle do under 1/2" for 3 shots that good enough and it was put together right.

I don't mind fireforming and being retired have time to do it plus it's something I enjoy.
I've never based accuracy on the type of brass I use it's always been a combination of things and tuning the load for the rifle so I've been luicky with the brass I've used to the 280AI.

If I'm not mistaken Norma makes Noslers brass.

Nosler chamfers, deburs the flashole and weight sorts their brass.

I would go with Nosler brass.

quote:

Originally posted by tom holland:
here my experience with the 280AI.

That is all really helpful info, Tom. I appreciate your input.
---------------------

.366 torque,

I've heard the same about the Norma/Nosler relationship, but didn't know if it was true or not. Sounds pretty believable to me!


Guess I'll be placing an order for my Nosler brass today.

Midway has the Nosler brass on sale. I picked up 100 pieces for $111.58. Of course, that meant I had to order a bunch of other stuff that I "needed" too... haha! I'm sure all you know how that goes.