I have dealt with guiding hunters too; probably 700-800 total. For every yahoo that showed up with a 900,000 MM Mag he couldn't handle there was one who showed up with a 270 and a box of 30-06 or his Dad's trophy WW II 8 Mauser and a box of 7 mm Mauser ammo. Small calibers don't always make for big minds. In fact, if we take that thought to its logical end the only true riflemen hunt with a 30 carbine.
I will agree that the guy that shows up with a well worn rifle (worn by him, of course) is more likely to know what he is about, regardless of caliber.
I don't give a crap how big a gun a man wants to shoot as long as he shoots it well and believe it or not Blob, there are many, many who do just that.

You've got a good point tigertate, the used 06 better be their use. I just never had enough experiences with total dumbasses, 270 with 06 ammo, to change my basic rule on this. I should say that I did have clients with big magnums, especially 300 mags that actually could shoot, but they were, most unfortuantely, a small minority.

On a personal note, with practice I got more than passable with my gifted 338's, I just didn't like the recoil. I have a 10 pound 270 with a 26 inch barrel that is a real-live sub-MOA rifle. Recoil just about zero, and I've made some really long shots with it. I shot it better than I ever did the 338's because it's fun to shoot.

I go back to the experience asspect, not just hunting but also shooting in general. An experienced rifleman can handle just about anything from a 223 to 585 Nyati because they have learned to shoot. The sad fact is that many hunters simply never shoot enough and never have a body of experience with enough calibers and configurations (gross weight, length of pull, scope type and iron sights, etc.) to have any idea what they can handle with ease or not.

I am not suggesting that someone who has no experience with a rifle will magicly be able to shoot a 270 accuractly the first time they pick up the rifle. However; if I were to venture a guess that they could either start with a 270 or a 338 of equal quality and after a reasonable amount of training and practice see which one produced the best groups at 300 yards, my experience tells me that the 270 will prove out best in all but a few very exceptionaly cases.

One of my good friends just can't believe it that I'm going to use my .270 (regular Winchester at that!) this fall for Elk. He's got a 300 Weatherby and looks sidelong at me every time the topic comes up (and of course, he brings it up--God bless him!).

Now true, I've not hunted Elk, and he has. He's also taken an animal or two. But I know at least one of those was with an '06.

As for me, my rifle's putting 150 gr. A-frames into 1/2" at 100 yards from the bench. So knowing what I can do from a bench, it's time to practice, practice, practice from field postions.

Should be fun!

p.s. anyone want to give my friend odds as to whether I fill my tag?

friar

I agree that the poor shooters outnumber the competent magnum shooters by a large percentage but I bet most of them would be poor shots with a lesser caliber as well. Truth is, most of those guy see a gun as a "badge", not a tool or dedicated hobby. Just like the guy (usually a manager) at work that has to have the latest computer with mega-gig hard drive, a jillion megs of RAM , 21" flat screen monitor and the SOB has his secretary look up all his data because he don't know the programs and can't type, either.
On the other hand, I'm no A.J. Foyt but I really, really want a Chrysler 300 SRT8 with the 426 HEMI

Disclaimer:I've been a manager most of my life so I know all about that crap.

You know, all that is very true, and there are guys that can shoot their 50 ft/lb recoil monsters spectacularly well.

In the end though, 90% of hunters are not shooters. If they aren't shooters, AND they are afraid of their gun, that's one hell of a double handicap..... JMO, Dutch.

I'm 54, I bought my first magnum last year.I have a 270 that I've used for years.deer,bears moose etc. with it. I bought the 300 WM for elk, and I guess I just wanted a new rifle.Where I hunt the shots could be 30yds to 350 yds.For the closer stuff the 270 would be great, but I think the 300 would give me a little egde on the longer ones. I have so far shot just short of 500 rounds through it.I will take it out rat shooting as soon as it drys up.I don't think the recoil is that bad and I know the more I shoot it the better I will get with the gun..I have never bought into the magnum stuff until now but I do like that 300 and maybe I should have bought one 20 years ago. But all the deer and stuff I've killed with the small guns are very dead and I don't think the 300 would have killed them any deader!!

quote:

Originally posted by friarmeier:
One of my good friends just can't believe it that I'm going to use my .270 (regular Winchester at that!) this fall for Elk. He's got a 300 Weatherby and looks sidelong at me every time the topic comes up (and of course, he brings it up--God bless him!).

Now true, I've not hunted Elk, and he has. He's also taken an animal or two. But I know at least one of those was with an '06.

As for me, my rifle's putting 150 gr. A-frames into 1/2" at 100 yards from the bench. So knowing what I can do from a bench, it's time to practice, practice, practice from field postions.

Should be fun!

p.s. anyone want to give my friend odds as to whether I fill my tag?

friar

Friar,

I took an Elk with a 165 grain Ballistic Tip with an MV at 2250s fps, out of a 30/06. The load was 30 grains of IMR 4198.

The elk was a cow, and was shot at a dead run, broadside at 175 yds. It made it 40 to 60 yds and piled up. It weighed 650lbs on the hoof, according to the Montana game station estimate.
They weighed it because they said it was a BIG cow elk .

Don't ever feel undergunned with a 270 if you can put the bullet where it needs to go when out hunting Elk. One guy I hunted with several times in a party, shot two elk in a row ( 2 seasons) in the same spot and they were the same sized Spikes. Both were shot at 100 yds.. Year one was with a 300 mag, with factory ammo. He had it because some guy was trying to sell it to him, os he was trying it out. Yr One elk went 50 to 60 yds after being hit with the 300 Mag.

Yr. two elk was shot with the old 7.65 Belgian Mausern ( 1890s production) that he had inherited from his grandad who bought it cheap in the early 1950s. That spike went down at the shot. He was speaking with his dad, and they figured that the old 7.66 Mauser, with opened sites, had taken 35 or so Elk since it had been in the family. Always just shot a Round Nose bullet, and using open sites kept shots under 200 yds!

The old 270 will do just fine.

Cheers
seafire

As things go I was at a range to see if my bull barreled .233 would like the latest reload. A young man was setting up his new 300 WSM. I don't remember the brand of the rifle but it was light. He blasted away and the barrel jumped up 6 inches off his rest. He scattered shots all over, flinched, ducked, cussed the rifle, cussed himself and then wanted to see my groups. "My god you are stacking them" he said after looking at my target where several had went through the same hole. I looked on the box of factory rounds he was using and the price was $32.00. I told him I had reloaded the .233 for about $2.OO a box. He shuk his head and said well guess I had better go get some more rounds. What had he learned that day? Nothing! He returned to the kicking , scattering and expensive rifle and cussed every shot.

Let me say this and then I will end here. I could care less what anyone shoots elk or deer with. If they want to use an atomic bomb go ahead although it is hard to find the Elk or deer after using it. I have shot magnums well because I was raised to shoot from when I was 9 years old in Western Colorado by men who knew what real shooting is. They killed a lot of men to survive in world war 2 and knew what it took to place shots even at great distances. But I know bullshit about what to use when I see and hear it because I have been there and did that for 51 years. If a person wants to use a 500 Jeffery on Elk get with it but don't try to get me to believe the bullshit about how much better it is and etc. I have shot 300 magnums, 375 HH, 264 magnums and a few more but saw no need for them as the old 30/06 mowed them down. Shot placement is the key. Can't wait to get my Elk this year with my 260.

I don't argue that they are any better at all. Just that not everyone who uses one is some kind of lesser moron because of it.
In fact, if I go elk hunting this year it will be in the thick stuff so I'll probably take my 303 with 200 gr or 215 gr bullets just because I want that particular experience.
To me its all about the spirit of a particular hunt and how you wantg to experience it. I would feel no worse if I took my 416 Remington to blood that particular rifle.
Both go bang, both are loud and both kill effectively. What's the big deal?

A friend, on the advise of his wannabe guide - and much bigger - son, bought a magnum largely for woods deer hunting. His shooting is much worse now and he's blaming it on the gun. I tried, it's moa capable...but he no longer is. He's actually SCARED of the recoil and jerks each shot.

Thought I was finished with this but triggertate you are way off if you think I believe anyone is a moron for using a magnum. I like magnums because they are firearms. I like all firearms and have reloaded the 300 magnum for a man who is a crack shot with it. Personally I could care less what you hunt with but it makes me mad to hear all the bullshit about having to have one to hunt Elk with and many an unsupecting person who did not know a .17 from a 300 mag was sold one and got his eye blacked by the scope. This is America and you can buy whatever you want and that is great! Just don't try to shit a person who knows better into believing magnums are the absolute when hunting Elk. But I realize that the bullshit will flow deep around the weak and uninformed. I wish I had a 50 caliber to play with myself.

I pack all types of bolt action rifles from a .223 to a .340 weatherby mag I prefer the .270 or the 06'. Its good if a person candle and shoot a large magnum thats good only about 40% of the people can though , I can but I dont have to like it!! Somtimes I like to shoot distant rocks with mine shoot longer distances with them but on game if you keep your shots reasonable distances they are not nesessary 90% of the time.

quote:

The fact is we don't need it or even have to prove we can take it.You might say we even get a little smarter the more geriatric we get. roger

That about sums up my thoughts. Im thinking that most of the guys who come off on these threads like the chest pounding monkeys who think this whole thing is supposed to be somehow reflective of ones manhood are the same ones who show up to camp with loud obnoxious dispositions and carry on through campfire gun disgussions like they are the only ones who know anything about "modern" rifles and that they clearly know they have an edge over everyone else with their inadequate, anemic chamberings. Like that is supposed to bother those of us who realize that they are just compensating for other inadequacies and/or insecurities.

There are certianly those who make good use of more powerfull chamberings and do it well and it is usually very avid hunters who are truly not bothered by their recoil. But I would wager that the amount of loud obnoxious magnum owners with an inferiority complex outnumber the sensible secure magnum users by a good margin.

quote:

A good example of all this crap is in Africa where the mighty white hunter comes with his 500 Jeffery, 458 mag, or 600 nitro express to down an elephant. When he leaves the old game wardens thin out a few rogues with thier aging 6.5 military rifles with shot placement

Er, I don't know where you get your information from, but the 458 win mag is probably one of the most popular calibers carried by PHs in Africa for backup and whilst very good shooters like Bell may have shot Elephant with 7x57s he actually gave up with the 6.5 because the solids bent.

And then of course there are very famous guys like Fletcher Jamieson who hunted with a 500 Jeffery built for him by Jefferys.....

The large calibers have their place. If you need convincing, just look at this video clip at :-

www.africanhuntersguild.com/buffalocharge.asp

I bet under those conditions, the recoil of a 500 jeff would be like a maiden's caress

but i agree that the 30-06/270/308 calibers will more than suffice for what most guys want in most cases and that the big magnums a lot of the time are overkill.

quote:

Originally posted by MLG:

I bet under those conditions, the recoil of a 500 jeff would be like a maiden's caress

.

Sure was a lot of hard breathing there. Your point is well taken and right on. roger

These kind of discussions kinda tickle me. From one side we infer from the discussions that only the giant, high energy calibers make sense for anything. One the other, we get the impression that a 7 remmy mag, a 270, or a 30-06 is the best medicine for any thing. And of course, we all know that the new fireplugs are the perfect solution for everything. (And well loved by the dogs in the city.)

Hey Guys ... there is room in the world for lots of different opinions about how to approach the myriad of hunting situations that this very large and diverse group of folks face.

Let's face it, some folks are not very recoil tolerant. Others are remarkable insensitive to a mule kicking them in the shoulder ... and can carry heavy rifles up the side of a mountain.

Some things are kinda silly ... using a 32-20 on a Grizzly doesn't seem to make good sense, just as using a .470 NE on Mountain Goats seems a little off center. Same thing might be said of always carrying the rifle that ballistically accels at ranges out to and beyond 500 yards.

The right rifle for the circumstances just makes sense. Fortunately, there are a range of reasonable solutions for most hunting situations.

If a hunter cannot shoot a 300 or a 338 then he probabl can't shoot a 30-06 either...and should be golfing...

A rifle will not injure you with recoil, and to use less gun than needed is a receipt for disaster..I think everyone should strive to learn how to handle recoil if they intend to hunt big game and they should use all they can tolerate...

I would not want to tackle a Cape buffalo with a small bore although I have in the past...and I would want to be recoil wise when I went after Alaskan bear or Cape Buffalo..

If you can shoot a 375 and everyone should, then when you shoot your 30-06 it will feel like a 22 rimfire, and you will shoot better.

All that other stuff is just BS in my book, and yes I still hunt deer with my 25-35 Win. but it has nothing to do with recoil, just nostalgia and good hunting skills practiced, I also shoot a lot of big bores and hunt dangerous game with them.

you want skill, then hunt deer with a 470 double rifle as opposed to your 30-30 you will become a better hunter, in other words it does not take a small caliber to make you a hunter other than in your own mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
If a hunter cannot shoot a 300 or a 338 then he probabl can't shoot a 30-06 either...and should be golfing...

Where do you come up with these gems, Ray? Is this indigative of your tolerant nature? Does this mean if a 14 year old kid and his dad show up to be guided by you and are carrying 7X57s you're not going to take their money? roger

I don't know Ray, but I agree with him. Hunting deer is one thing, but if you are going after something big that scratches, bites, or will trample you to death if you can't shoot a 375 H&H I don't want to go with you. Take up golf.

Not to say I don't enjoy shooting my 223. I love it.

quote:

Originally posted by MAnderson:
I don't know Ray, but I agree with him. Hunting deer is one thing, but if you are going after something big that scratches, bites, or will trample you to death if you can't shoot a 375 H&H I don't want to go with you. Take up golf.

Use to go with a big ole gal named Dagmar. Now she use to bite and scratch but it wasn't trampling to death that she was doing. The way it worked out maybe I should have tried golf.

Thank you for your responses on both threads, Ray roger

OK Blob, I think I get your point but you gave no credit to those who can shoot big guns well.

And Wstrnhunter,chest pounding monkeys ought to be respected at a minimum, avoided when possible because they love pounding pussies even more.

If a hunter cannot shoot a 300 or a 338 then he probabl can't shoot a 30-06 either...and should be golfing What is the problem with magnuns anyway.I prefer hunting with the.338RUM,I can handle it and shoot fine,it is my personnal choice,depends on how you one can handle recoil...

bartsche, you shoulda told him to get a 50 BMG, it's not a magnumb, right?

Well, now that you missed your chance I'd say you did the kid a big favor, being honest and all.

Boy it keeps rolling down hill! The info I got on the game wardens in Africa killing the rouge elephants with their old 6.5 rifles came from National Geographic on tv several years ago. The white men left to go home with thier elephant killed with a 500 jeffery and then the locals downed severel rouges with the olny thing they had to shoot with. This is common place there. Even Peter Chap Stick the great hunter said the best dose for a big crock was 100 grains from a .243 through the head although they cleard out crocks in the holes in the river with a .458 before swimming it.

quote:

Reply

Blob 1

I don,t know if I would believe everything said on the National Geographic.

To begin with, 6.5 was not a popular military caliber in Africa - much more likely to be 303 or more recent, a 308 or AK47.

Also you can bet that there will have been plenty of game running around with old wounds from the likes of the above calibers carried by poachers etc. Also there are no statistics on how many of these people would have been killed over the years shooting DG with small calibers.

By the way it was Peter Capstick. Chapstick is the moisturiser you put on your lips to stop dryness

quote:

By the way it was Peter Capstick. Chapstick is the moisturiser you put on your lips to stop dryness

I think he was funnin' ya....

quote:

.

And Wstrnhunter,chest pounding monkeys ought to be respected at a minimum,

Yea right! There certianly are a few showing up here.

Anyone who cant handle a 338 WM has no business hunting!! What a crock of unbriadled horsemanure.

UUUuuu-UUUuuuu-UUUUUHH!!

That is exactly the kind of overbearing attitude Im talking about. Use whatever you like but dont tell me that I need to use the same weapon or subscribe to the same line of thinking as you. Save it for the field and let that determine who should stay on the porch.

quote:

Originally posted by MLG:

quote:

Reply

Blob 1

I don,t know if I would believe everything said on the National Geographic.

To begin with, 6.5 was not a popular military caliber in Africa - much more likely to be 303 or more recent, a 308 or AK47.

Also you can bet that there will have been plenty of game running around with old wounds from the likes of the above calibers carried by poachers etc. Also there are no statistics on how many of these people would have been killed over the years shooting DG with small calibers.

By the way it was Peter Capstick. Chapstick is the moisturiser you put on your lips to stop dryness

I don't spend time worrying what people in Africa do, as I never have the desire to go there.

However, I know that in the last few years, the Swedish version of Fish and Wildlife were debating on suspending the use of the 6.5 x 55 for Moose hunting in Sweden ( yeah blasmaphy, but hey they are a 'liberal' country and liberals usually thumb their noses at what has worked for centuries thinking they have a better idea).

However, in their testing with the standardly used 156 grain bullets in the 6.5 x 55, they found that the 6.5 actually penetrated a little more in their test medias, than did a 375 H & H did with a 300 grain bullet. This is not an invitation to suggest the 6.5 x 55 replace the 375 H & H, but it stopped the Swedish government's big idea about banning the 6.5 x 55 as ineffectual on large game. It has also put the skids on a lot of Polar Bears in that area of the Arctic!

I have also read that a 308 with a 220 grain round nose is also popular with African governments in thinning out herds, so.... take from this what you like... I myself am keeping the old 6.5 x 55 handy.... But I am in the market for a nice 375. I don't own one, and don't need one, but since when was that a criteria for a rifle guy? Instead of my like for the 375 being anything to do with Africa, it has to do with what you read about it from the wonderful guys down under!

I have no desire to go to Africa, but I sure would love to be a regular in Australia and New Zealand!

Cheers
seafire

Seafire/B17G

I agree totally with what you say there and never mean't to bag the 6.5 or the 308, both of which I have myself and both are very good calibers, particularly the 6.5. The 308 was also used here in Australia to reduce the herds of water buff a few years back, but from helicopters, the back of pick up trucks or from horse back.

But these calibers are not sufficient stoppers for the avereage hunter on foot to use against dangerous game.

quote:

Originally posted by MLG:
Seafire/B17G

I agree totally with what you say there and never mean't to bag the 6.5 or the 308, both of which I have myself and both are very good calibers, particularly the 6.5. The 308 was also used here in Australia to reduce the herds of water buff a few years back, but from helicopters, the back of pick up trucks or from horse back.

But these calibers are not sufficient stoppers for the avereage hunter on foot to use against dangerous game.

MLG:

Totally agree my friend....But one has to consider of having the "average hunter" even put in circumstances where they are that exposed to danger.... I would not want to have to be the guide/PH of someone not knowing his butt from a hole in the ground in a situation like that....

But you guys down in Oz were always a much more realistic lot than the average American Suburban YUPPIE....

cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
But you guys down in Oz were always a much more realistic lot than the average American Suburban YUPPIE....

cheers
seafire

Seafire,

we also have our share of armchair theroists, but most of the Aus guys who post here actually use use their rifles, be it target or hunting, rather than look at them...

(puts flame suit on, and ducks for cover... )

Shooting the larger chamberings well goes in direct proportion to the amount of shooting time you put in. If you shoot enough, and I mean small, medium, and large chamberings you can shoot anything you pick up, with practice. 90% of the people here and everywhere who say they don't handle recoil, don't try. They don't shoot anything enough to become proficient shooters, that is the deal. There are hunters who shoot maybe 5 to 10 rounds prior to hunting season, and call it good. They are not shooters, the shooters are the ones who shoot regularly and become accustomed to their rifles and loads fired. The repeated placing of the sights on the target and pulling the trigger, is invaluable to any hunter, and the shooter does this. Where do you fall in this scenerio. "you can shoot anything you pick up, regardless of size, with practice.

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
"you can shoot anything you pick up, regardless of size, with practice.

Phurley,it's not a question of can you shoot the big stuff well; it's why subjugate yourself to the unneeded punishment? If you are a massachist or a macho tough hombre trying to impress your " buddies" enjoy yourself.

If you are a 97 pound 14 yearold boy or girl going with his or her dad on an elk hunt get the rifle that will do the job that you are comfortable with. That doesn't have to be a boom-n-puncher.

Is it my imagination or does there seem to be a group of magnum users that feel they must defend what even they may consider an imature choice of rifle? roger

Its definitely your imagination.

I agree with both Phurley and Rodger.

There are some fellows who are not recoil tolerant at all for different reasons, but most people can learn to cope if they set their mind to it and work at it. The real question is do you want to? For the majority of hunting in NA a 338 Wm vs a 7X57 will not mean the difference between success or failure, it is a CHOICE with pluses and pitfalls on either side.

The ongoing search for the perfect chambering will probably never be settled around the campfire, only in the hearts of the riflemen and even that is never written in stone.

bartsche ----- I shot six rifles this afternoon. I enjoy shooting rifles the same as some enjoy golf, boating, etc. I shot the following rifles, all mine. A 270 WSM, a 7mm STW, a .338 Lapua, a .358 STA, a .340 Wby, and a .416 Rigby. I didn't shoot these rifles to impress my buddies, I shot them because I get a kick out of perfecting the best loads for my collection of rifles that I shoot three days a week. Now if my choices are immature, then so be it, that is your opinion. I also shot two rifles for buddies who don't like to shoot like I do, and they leave the zeroing to me, because they don't have time. I don't care if that is an excuse or not, I still enjoy shooting their rifles because it gives me a better variety of chamberings to play with. The two I shot for them is a 7mm Ultra Mag and a .300 Ultra mag, when I get them an accurate load I will give them back and let them do their thing. ----- My point was not that of a matcho man, just that if more people would shoot, the more different rifles they could shoot, without berating others for shooting magnums. Hey I like to shoot the standard chamberings also, and do weekly, but I also shoot what ever I choose, and I will let you do the same and not belittle you for doing it. "You can shoot anything you pick up, regardless of size, with practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
The ongoing search for the perfect chambering will probably never be settled around the campfire, only in the hearts of the riflemen and even that is never written in stone.

Boy-O-Boy, am I ever disappointed. I was sure looking forward to that answer in this Thread so I could either toss out all imperfect ones and/or go buy the perfect one.

quote:

Originally posted by Roger:
Is it my imagination or does there seem to be a group of magnum users that feel they must defend what even they may consider an imature choice of rifle?

Hey Roger, I think you have your Threads mixed up. I've not seen a post in this one defending a rifle with the scope(improperly mounted) forward of the receiver.
---

I've got Magnums with those excellent Belted cases, rifles chambered for what people seem to think are Standard(Non-Belted) cases, rifles with smaller Standard cases and a few 22LRs. For some strange reason I seem to enjoy shooting all of them.

Haven't considered needing to "defend" my rifle selections based on the size of the case. Interesting concept and even more interesting that Roger managed to get some folks to "argue" about it.

Somewhere down the road you will go "sneaking" up to the Pearly Gates and old St. Pete will ask, "UUUmmm, what is this about you Stirring-the-Pot concerning Magnum Calibers Vs. Standard Calibers??? Stand still and answer-up Roger, you're going fall over my 30-378Wby!"

This is one thread that I've enjoyed reading. I guess mainly because it mirrors what I've seen over the years in myself and others.

25 years ago, a relative arranged for me to buy a nice Mauser 98 in 257 Roberts. I couldn't wait to have Fred Huntington rechamber it to 25-06 because hunting where I hunted just needed a magnum or something bigger and everyone else had one.

Well, I'm certainly glad I went to the 25-06 and not the 25 Weatherby. Every buck I've taken or even seen taken has been at less than 100 yrds even in a area with only sage brush for miles. The 257 Roberts would have been just fine. In our old hunting party there was another fellow, an MD, who carried a 300 Weatherby for years, or at least until he took his first buck. The next year he showned up with an 30-06 with open-sights and took a buck every year thereafter.

I've gone in thought from the small/speedy to the big/slow. From what I can tell a 35 Whelen is just about what I want for my next rifle. Not to fast, not too slow, punchs a good blood hole with enough weight to do the job. But no belted magnums need apply

On the other hand I think short guys take recoil better, and the style of some stocks helps a person absorb recoil. And if your going to sight in a rifle you owe it to your self to buy a few sand bags, a good shooting rest and a recoil shoulder pad. I laughed at Guns and Ammo TV this weekend when they showed a guy and his son shooting at a range off of what looked like rolled coats. Bad shooting position equals bad recoil absorbtion.

Sorry got off track. I'm sure you've all noticed that this thread runs counter to most of the writing on this and other forums. It seems that most shooters want their own wildcat, can't stalk game to anything less than 1/2 mile, and feel the need to burn 1/4 pound of powder everytime they pull the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Somewhere down the road you will go "sneaking" up to the Pearly Gates and old St. Pete will ask, "UUUmmm, what is this about you Stirring-the-Pot concerning Magnum Calibers Vs. Standard Calibers??? Stand still and answer-up Roger, you're going fall over my 30-378Wby!"

OK you caught me. What I'll have to do I guess is offer that Great Gate keeper my .358 X.404 IMP; properly monted scope and all. roger