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First shot POI different
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Felcher
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posted 21 September 2003 06:20
The first shot of the day is always 1.25" to 1.5" lower(at 200 yds.) than all following shots. The second through fifth rounds will group 3/4" to 1". Usually I will shoot two rounds, allow the rifle to cool with bolt open for 30+ minutes, then shoot the third and fourth round, allow it to cool again, then shoot the fifth round. Only the first round of the day is out of whack. The next day, same sh%$, different day. This drives me nuts since I hunt with this rifle and the first shot should be the only shot. The rifle is a Browning A-Bolt composite stalker .270 It's probably only had 250-300 rounds through it over the 8 or so years I've had it. Until this year the only time POI would vary was the first round or two following cleaning. The barrel channel is clean-no obstructions with the floated barrel, and the scope screws seem tight. Any ideas on whats causing this?
 
Posts: 82 | Registered: 27 July 2003Reply With Quote
ricciardelli
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Picture of ricciardelli
posted 21 September 2003 06:51Hide Post
Sounds like the first shot is out of a cleaned barrel...do yourself a favor...before you take the rifle out for hunting, find an open field and run three rounds through it and DO NOT CLEAN IT after.

Same for when you are shooting paper...only just run 1 maybe 2 fouling rounds after cleaning and before "shooting for record".
 
Posts: 3282 | Location: Saint Marie, Montana | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
Pumpkinheaver
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Picture of Pumpkinheaver
posted 21 September 2003 13:30Hide Post
Ditto.I'm glad ricciardelli said all that now I don't have to type it.
 
Posts: 414 | Location: Missouri | Registered: 28 February 2002Reply With Quote
TomP
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posted 21 September 2003 18:27Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Felcher:
The first shot of the day is always 1.25" to 1.5" lower(at 200 yds.) than all following shots. The second through fifth rounds will group 3/4" to 1". Usually I will shoot two rounds, allow the rifle to cool with bolt open for 30+ minutes, then shoot the third and fourth round, allow it to cool again, then shoot the fifth round. Only the first round of the day is out of whack. The next day, same sh%$, different day. This drives me nuts since I hunt with this rifle and the first shot should be the only shot. The rifle is a Browning A-Bolt composite stalker .270 It's probably only had 250-300 rounds through it over the 8 or so years I've had it. Until this year the only time POI would vary was the first round or two following cleaning. The barrel channel is clean-no obstructions with the floated barrel, and the scope screws seem tight. Any ideas on whats causing this?
Does it have anything to do with recoil vs how many rounds are in its magazine? Does the powder settle in the rounds in the magazine at the first recoil?

Maybe the bedding is not quite tight, and it snugs up during the first recoil of the day?

Are the bullets coated?

I guess I am entertaining myself by guessing at things that might be different...no reason to believe that these things might have much influence, or change all of a sudden.
 
Posts: 15183 | Location: Moreno Valley CA USA | Registered: 20 November 2000Reply With Quote
millsie67
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posted 22 September 2003 09:10Hide Post
Im going with the first shot is a fowler answer.
Simple.
 
Posts: 53 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 12 September 2003Reply With Quote
DennisF
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posted 22 September 2003 01:25Hide Post
I never hunt with a clean barrel, after I do my final sight-in I let the rifle set until after the season. If I have fired several rounds during sight-in (due to my extraordinary shooting skill [Big Grin] ) I may run a dry swab through the barrel just to knock out some of the loose powder that may be left but nothing else.
 
Posts: 321 | Location: Tulsa, Ok. | Registered: 27 June 2001Reply With Quote
Weatherby223
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posted 22 September 2003 02:28Hide Post
I had the same problem before with a clean bore so on the weekend i thought i might try a Moly coated Bullet as my first shot and the rest normal. Shocked me but it worked. I never use coated ammo because of what i have read about them but i had a full box and it was worth a try. I would just stick to firing a couple of rounds before you hunt. [Cool]
 
Posts: 25 | Location: South Australia | Registered: 02 July 2003Reply With Quote
Felcher
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posted 22 September 2003 05:35Hide Post
I guess I need to clarify: I have not cleaned the bore between trips to the range. I usually never run a rod through the bore until after season, unless I got the gun real wet or something. I've taken the gun to the range 3 times since I've cleaned it (16 total rounds through it), but on each trip, the first shot is low.
Thanks for the ideas, I hope somebody has the solution to this. I guess if I can't figure anything else out, I'll just adjust the scope for the first round and let the rest (if needed) fly high. I don't really want to have to fire one off in the darkness every morning before I go hunting, although I imagine it would get some of the late risers in camp to stirring a little earlier.

TomP-No bullet coating, and I'm loading from the top 1 round at a time(no bullets in the magazine).
 
Posts: 82 | Registered: 27 July 2003Reply With Quote
Jameister
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posted 22 September 2003 06:39Hide Post
Temperature sensitivity in the powder, with the later cartridges warming up so they exit the barrel faster, before muzzle jump.

another thought is that your bags or front rest is just different enough so it changes in firmness or in compactionwith first shot.

Another is that you have a load that is so empty in the brass that it affects firing: Try a hotter primer or different powder loads.
 
Posts: 902 | Location: Denver Colderado | Registered: 13 May 2001Reply With Quote
arty
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posted 22 September 2003 07:20Hide Post
quote:
Maybe the bedding is not quite tight, and it snugs up during the first recoil of the day?
My first thought was a shot out of a clean barrel, but since it is a dirty bore, I think the bedding, or the screws holding the action to the stock are improperly tensioned might be the culprit. An easy thing to check.
 
Posts: 345 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 09 February 2003Reply With Quote
<Savage 99>
posted 22 September 2003 12:40
Fletcher,

What your doing is very important to me also. I want to know where that first shot is going to go. However yours is not far off at all at that distance of 200 yds if the quarry is big game.

I am going thru my rifles and trying cleaning or not cleaning etc. So far of the ones that are the most predictable I have found that from a cold barrel that a clean and very lightly oiled bore is best. It's no problem for me to hunt with a fouled bore and last winter we went over that here and Ray Atkinson and many other very experianced riflemen said to "tape it over and go hunting".

Whatever works is what I want and my Swift, for instance, is best on that first shot clean and oiled.

Another rifle that shoots very well always puts the first shot a tiny bit to the left. Not so much as to matter for game hunting but enough so that I hold off to get the best group. I am sure that this rifle needs more bedding work.

In summary play around with your cleaning techniques and then look at the bedding.
 
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TomP
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posted 22 September 2003 16:16Hide Post
It might be worth trying a different bedding in the stock; I wonder if something shifts during recoil and goes back to another position later. The recoil lug, maybe.
 
Posts: 15183 | Location: Moreno Valley CA USA | Registered: 20 November 2000Reply With Quote
1894
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posted 22 September 2003 22:56Hide Post
I don't shoot hunting rifles from bags for this reason. When I was accuracy testing I found that it took one shot to settle the rifle in the bags.
 
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001Reply With Quote
BECoole
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posted 23 September 2003 05:06Hide Post
I think your barrel is heating up and walking. Do 1 of 2 things:
1) Sight it in to be dead-on for the first shot or
2) Have the barrel stress-relieved.
 
Posts: 539 | Registered: 14 February 2003Reply With Quote
Felcher
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posted 23 September 2003 06:35Hide Post
How do you "stress releive the barrel"?

I went back to the range yesterday and the gun behaved a little better, the first shot was only about 3/4" lower than the second and third round.Maybe I'll just keep on shooting it and see if the group continues to tighten.

Thanks for all the ideas/help.
 
Posts: 82 | Registered: 27 July 2003Reply With Quote
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