I was out doing some shopping today, stopped by the gun shop and a shiny new Remington 700 SPS .223 followed me home I picked up some supplies for loading including Winchester cases and WSR primers and a pound of IMR 4198. What would you guys suggest for a good bullet? There are so many different weights and designs in the .224 size I don't know where to start. This is going to be mainly a target rifle, so expansion isn't important. I want something that will reach out to 200+ yards with decent accuracy.

I am using the 40gr Hornaday V-Max with IMR 4198 powder and it suits my needs quite well. I am generally shooting the rifle at groundhogs out around 200 yds, and it is deadly. The Nosler 40 gr. may be a little more accurate, but the cost difference between the V-Max and the Nosler BT is enough to keep me shooting the Hornadays.

Almost all .224 diameter bullets are accurate...competition for sales here is incredible!

I've had excellent results with several; Nosler's 50 and 55 grain B-Tip, Hornady's 50 V-Max and Speer's 50 grain TNT. ( I rarely shoot Sierra)

The TNT is a bit less costly and that's why I recommend them so much.....they work well and they work cheap.

I like BL(C)-2 and H-335 powder

Rowdy,

+1 on what the others are saying.

I have three 223's, & finially setteled on 26.5 grs. of Benchmark, with the Hornady 50 gr. V-max.

Shoots better than I can hold for the three of them. good grups at 100, 200, & 300 yds.

Try different loads, & bullets to see what it likes. That's what makes reloading fun, finding the load.

Thanks I buy most of my supplies from my nearby Cabela's retail store to avoid the hazmat shipping charges, so unless I want to pay extra shipping I'm limited to Alliant, Hodgdon, and IMR powders. My load books show lots of loads for 4198 so I thought that would be a good place to start experimenting. Any experience with Remington bullets? They are cheap and might work well enough until I get the barrel broke in. Hornady bullets aren't that bad from Midway, I have to order a set of dies from them anyway so I might get a couple boxes.

55gr Varmint Nite Mare from Mid South, as accurate or better than TNTs and less costly. roger

quote:

Originally posted by rowdyredneck:
... Any experience with Remington bullets? They are cheap and might work well enough until I get the barrel broke in. ...

Hey Rowdy, Yes, quite a bit of experience with them.

I prefer the 50gr PLHP (not the PSP) with a multitude of powders - H322, H4895, WW-748, BL-C2 and my current favorite Benchmark. Using randomly picked bullets from the box, they average in the 6s for me(5s-7s).

I use the 50gr Nosler B-Tips for my "Who buys the BBQ?" Load, but the 50gr PLHP Remingtons are my normal killing and plinking Load.

I'm REALLY tempted to try some of those 55gr Varmint Nightmare bullets that Roger keeps mentioning. 500 for $29.19 is a right nice price.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

I'm REALLY tempted to try some of those 55gr Varmint Nightmare bullets that Roger keeps mentioning. 500 for $29.19 is a right nice price.

I'd try them too except I already have well over 20,000 .224 diameter bullets in the cabinet and doubt that I'll ever shoot them up in my lifetime!

2/3 of them are Hornady V-Max and TNTs

There's so many good .224 bullets out there. Lately, I've been using Speer 50gr TNT bullets and H335 powder.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

I'm REALLY tempted to try some of those 55gr Varmint Nightmare bullets that Roger keeps mentioning. 500 for $29.19 is a right nice price.

I'd try them too except I already have well over 20,000 .224 diameter bullets in the cabinet and doubt that I'll ever shoot them up in my lifetime!

2/3 of them are Hornady V-Max and TNTs

Vapo...

Some of my 223s, will help you eliminate that problem! just send me an email, and I'll take about 10,000 of those off of your hands... so they don't keep cluttering up your reload room!

Rowdy...

couple of observations to pass on...

There are hardly any bad powders for a 223, except the real slow ones, and they are still accurate, just not high velocity...

I have found IMR 4198 one of the more finicky... ( in ratio to others) but nothing radical... I burn up a lot of it, myself, and use it for downloads in bigger calibers....

However, in the 223, I have found that the magic accuracy load seems to be right there at 21.5 grains....when the bullet weights are 50 grains up to 60 grains...

I have also noticed that 21.5 grains with the Hornady 55 and 60 grain SPs are also very accurate....

I do prefer the explosiveness of the 50 grain TNTs.. and they are priced cheap... but the Two hornady's mentioned above are a little cheaper.. and super accurate ( tested in multiple 223s, I have access to)....

I got ahold of some of the 55 grain Varmint Nightmares that Roger is always talking up....and they look exactly like a Hornady 55 grain SP in my hand next to each other...so I am convinced, that they are the same bullet!

And at the price that Mid South sells them for...an order for $200 to $250.00 or so, ought to keep even the most trigger happy 223 shooter in town, busy for quite a while...

And as far as the life span of a 223 barrel....
I traded off a Ruger VT that was from the first year they launched them... for a new Savage 12 BVSS....

I was going to rebarrel the Ruger, as it was not as accurate anymore as it once was...

I paid $300.00 for it used, and was offered $400.00 for trade in value... so I jumped on it...

But I also had put about 8,000 rounds down the barrel on it....and I got it used from another guy who was getting old, but had varmint guns that would make your head swim, and he indicated that he had put a lot of rounds thru the barrel... and it was original....

Some guy shows up with the same rifle at the range recently.. so I recognized the rifle.. and talked to him about it, before I admitted to being the former owner...


I asked him about its accuracy, and where he got it.. he bought it where I traded it in at, and paid $450.00 for it.... so the gun shop picked up $50.00 on the deal...

He had put a new Leupold scope on it ( 6 x 18 vari x 2)....

For accuracy, he indicated that he had to play with a few loads to get it to shoot... but he settled on 25 grains of H 335 and Nosler 55 grain Ballistic tips....

He showed me groups he shot at 100 and 200 yrds...that he had just pulled off the line...

the 100 yd ones could be covered with a dime, and the 200 yd ones with a half dollar or so...

he also told me that he had put about 2000 round plus thru it last varmint season, shooting sage rats over in Christmas Valley Oregon...

well, between he and I, that accounts for 10,000 rounds plus thru that barrel!

plus I got it used from someone whom had owned it 6 or 7 years when I got it...and he was an avid varmint shooter who admitted it had been his main go to gun...

so even add a minimum of 2500 rounds to the barrel's tally.... knowing it is probably much much higher number...

But this barrel, a factory Ruger barrel, has seen at least 12,500 rounds down the barrel minimum.. and it can still turn in that kind of accuracy! is pretty amazing to me...

I got to visit Roger Bartsche whom mentions the Varmint Nightmare bullets above at his home range when I was down in California once....one of his friends there had a Savage 12 BVSS in 223, I talked with him about it, and he admitted to having about 8,000 rounds down his barrel...

I was interested in his experiences, as this is the same gun I had picked up and swapped out this old Ruger for...

John told me he had 8,000 round plus down the barrel... and he said accuracy was still almost as good as the day he got the rifle...

I am beginning to believe that a 223 has a lot more barrel life than a lot of people give them credit for...

a local guy who makes specialized AR 15s and M16 for the military and special ops, tells me the life span of his AR 15 barrels is 10,000 rounds minimum.... since that is in an automatic.. a bolt has to be a lot more than that.. regardless of how fast a bolt action is shot in a heavy targeted environment such as a field full of sage rats....

I've got a few 223s with some high mileage on them around here.... that I plan to put two of them to the test of life span possible... another Ruger, a Sporter... and a Ruger VT...

Should be interesting to see.. the Sporter has about 8,000 rounds thru it, and the VT has only 4,000....

I decided when I bought my 1988 Toyota 4 Runner back in Sept of 87 how long you could push one of those since they have a reputation for durability...well, it now has 486,000 miles on it.. and is still going strong... and a lot of people told me to get rid of it at 250K, and they spoke even louder when It got to 300K....

Now no one tells me to get rid of it.. they instead tell me I am planning to keep it and use it as my coffin, when I die...

good luck with the new 223....

cheers
seafire

Gidday Seafire,

That 4 Runner of yours, what sort of powerplant have you got in it and be at 486,000 miles. I'm at 386,00 Km in mine so I have a few years left in it by the looks of things.

Mines a 2.4 turbo diesel. Its as cheap as chips to run.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

for target use i've always found the 52 gr sierra match bullet to be the best, not by much, but best

Hamish...

My 4 Runner has a 2.4 litre gas engine in it, the 2200 RE...

We don't have the Turbo Diesel offered here stateside...they did offer it in the early 1980s for a while, but General Motors spoiled the American publics trust in diesels in cars, with their stupid Olds Diesel, which was when they tried to convert a gas motor into a diesel with a compression ratio of about 23 to 1.... and the end results were that those motors were blowing up in less than 50,000 miles...

I have also seen the older Toyota FJ 40s up in Canada that had Turbo Diesels in them....Would love to have one of those!

Well 486K, converts to about 775,000 Kms... so it sounds like your little diesel should have a lot of life left in it...

I have ran synthetic oil in mine most of its life, changing it about every 20,000 miles or so, and changing the filter every 5,000 miles... Most of it has been Mobil's Delvac oil, which is what over the road truckers run in their semis....

If I can ever fit it in the budget, I will eventually get a Dodge Diesel Pickup.. I figure that will out last me...

Meanwhile I am going to see how far I can run this 4 Runner.. I bought it new in 87 with 2 miles on the odometer...

cheers as always..
seafire

I ordered some more supplies from Midway last night. I use mostly RCBS stuff so it was only natural to get a set of RCBS dies. I also ordered a set of steel Weaver rings, which I plan on lapping for good measure (I already have a lapping bar and compound from another project)
For bullets I chose a box of 250 Hornady 50 grain V-max and a box of 100 Remington 50 grain PSP. The Remmys were cheap, only a little over $8 for the box so I'll use them for practice rounds till I get a good feel for things. I'll need some load suggestions though for IMR 4198 when I get ready since I don't have specific info for either of these bullets.

Rowdy,

Have you seen this IMR site? This should be a good starting point, regardless of brand. But I would still work up the loads seperately; for the Remington and for the Hornaday.

Mike

Yes, I've looked at those pages. I was just wondering if there was a "pet" load for the 50 grain V-max using 4198. I won't get the bullets till sometime next week so I still have time for suggestions.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:


I am beginning to believe that a 223 has a lot more barrel life than a lot of people give them credit for...


cheers
seafire

Some benchrest guy wrote that .222Win, with a long neck, will not wear out a barrel throat.
And those guys think a barrel is worn out when .100" groups open to .200".

Maybe it's not just the long neck.

Hey I just got some 55gr Remington and Winchester bulk bullets both w/ cannelures. I am having a problem with the bullets falling in. Tried crimping with my Dillon taper crimp but no luck. Any advice?

Rowdyredneck: I heartily recommend the Berger 52 gr. match bullet for your 200 yard "target" shooting!
These bullets are splendidly accurate in virtually all the 22 centerfires I have tried them in - including two different 223's!
Best of luck and be sure and let us know how it shoots!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

need some load suggestions though for IMR 4198 when I get ready since I don't have specific info for either of these bullets.

I have played with this powder a lot...
and use it a lot...

21.5 grains with a 55 grain bullet ( any type) seems to be the most accurate charge weight...

IMR 4198 seems to be happy when the pressure is about 45,000 CUPs...

in a 22.250, it is the most accurate with a charge of 25grains when using bullets in the 50, 52, 53, and 55 grain weights...

when using a 63 or 64 grain bullet in a 22.250 with IMR 4198, 22.5 grains is what works the best for accuracy.. once again the pressure is about 45,000 CUPS according to some info I saw..

In your 223, you can push it for more velocity with the 50-55 grain bullets, but your groups will open up more, unless you rifle is a very tight chamber....

MAX 222 data is a good starting point for the 223... and is usually pretty darn accurate...