I've got the RCBS 750. I would have to say it sucks if you want accurate powder charges. I have to "0" it probably every 5 to 8 charges weighed. When I see the reading on the scale when the pan is off change by 1/10 of a grain I have to re zero it. I double check the charges weighed on an old Hornady balance beam. After I zero the electronic, the balance beam confirms it.

The problem with the balance beam is that pan removal and replacement is awkward and slows me down. Also, it's not easy to weigh charges at different weights as with the electronic showing the readout instantly without having to slide the scale weights in place to get the new charge.

Any suggestions?

I just searched the AR achives on this subject.

I hope someone has a good suggestion for a digital or even an easy to use balance beam as long as accuracy is the main concern.

quote:

Is there a reliable electronic scale??

IMO NO.....The only scale I'll use is an Ohaus balanced beam scale.

Most should be pretty accurate. Just turn them on at least 30 minutes before you use it, and keep them away from air vents and fluorescent lighting.

Real men use balance beam scales

I think the beam will stay more consistent, but the electronic is so much more "user-friendly"

So you recommend the Ohaus Beam scale Vapo?

quote:

Most should be pretty accurate. Just turn them on at least 30 minutes before you use it, and keep them away from air vents and fluorescent lighting.

I leave my RCBS on all the time and it doen't help at all.

Vapo,

Man, there's a lot of Ohaus scale models and choices. Which one do you use?

It seems most are set up in grams or are .1 gram accuracy.

Is your's set up in grains or both?

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Vapo,

Man, there's a lot of Ohaus scale models and choices. Which one do you use?

It seems most are set up in grams or are .1 gram accuracy.

Is your's set up in grains or both?

Almost all the balanced beam scales are by Ohaus.....including RCBS and Dillon.....

Hornady's is their own and is also a good one.....made in Florida.

My Ohaus is from Dillon and yes it's in grains....darn fine tool.

quote:

Ohaus scale models

I thought I read they made the RCBS beam scales. Maybe not. Anyway I've use the same RCBS 10/10 for 30 years and will until I go to the big shooting range in the sky.

quote:

RCBS 10/10

Another fine scale and yes, by Ohaus.

This probably won't be very popular but I cannot understand why you would rezero your scale for an error of 1/10th grain. I have loaded several thousand rounds for various calibers and have never found evidence a difference of even .4 - .5 grains can be seen. I realize we obsess over our adult toys (I do the same) but for 1/10th grain of powder -- I'm speachless. I should probably point out I've never loaded for anything smaller than a 6mm.

Don Boyd

I think accuracy is extremely important, especially during load testing. How can you duplicate a load that shot good that you thought was 78.2 grains, that might have been something other than that?

When I shoot an Audette's ladder and graduate the cartridges by .2 grains, it better be .2 grains or the results will be almost useless.........

dillon or rcbs or pact .. all are excellent

quote:

Originally posted by Don Boyd:
This probably won't be very popular but I cannot understand why you would rezero your scale for an error of 1/10th grain. I have loaded several thousand rounds for various calibers and have never found evidence a difference of even .4 - .5 grains can be seen. I realize we obsess over our adult toys (I do the same) but for 1/10th grain of powder -- I'm speachless. I should probably point out I've never loaded for anything smaller than a 6mm.

Don Boyd

For the most part I fully agree.....

Here;s the wrinkle.....of the electronic scales I've used there seems to be a "creep".....at first it won't return to 0.0..... it's 0.1 or 0.2 .....this don't bother me but then it's 0.3 so I reset it......and soon it's 0.2 again.....I've never let one run on me but don't want to give one the chance either.

If it would stay on 0.2 all the time.....hey...I'm a happy camper.....but the darn things just won't stay put and this causes the worst thing imaginable..... IT DESTROYS MY CONFIDENCE.....and that's what kills the electronic scale in my loading bench.

Hey Vapo,

Is your Dillon a simple balance beam or is it a triple beam like the ones on this page?:

http://www.oldwillknottscales....XssZ8CFQcQagodqF3y0w

for EVERY "tronic scale hater"

do you have a set of check weights?

if so, set your balance scale...

load 10 rounds

and then check set again ...

and determine that electronic scales are actually MORE accurate .. and let you KNOW when there's a problem...

analog is NEVER better, it just FEELS better

MXX123 Its not cheap but quality never is. Had mine for five years now no problems, weighs to the 1/100 grain.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/5593/s?id=denver

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
for EVERY "tronic scale hater"

do you have a set of check weights?

if so, set your balance scale...

load 10 rounds

and then check set again ...

and determine that electronic scales are actually MORE accurate .. and let you KNOW when there's a problem...

analog is NEVER better, it just FEELS better

I have check weights and an older 10-10 along with a Pact digital.
I can check the beam scales at any point in a reloading session and they will read the same as when I set them up to start. The Pact has never acted that way for me yet.
Maybe I`m lucky..........

No one that I know uses a counterweight balance for any serious use anymore. I haven't even seen one in a lab in about 15 years. The electronic balance is a vast improvement over older counterbalance designs.

The problem is that most of the balances that are marketed towards reloaders are very cheap, bottom of the barrel models. An Ohaus electronic balance with a 0.01 gram readability (the same as a Pact scale) will run you about $300. If you want to get real fancy, for ~$2,500 you can get an analytical balance with a readability down to 0.0001 grams. Have fun splitting powder grains with a glass knife under a stereomicroscope.

The $80 electric balance can work great. You just have to use more technique to use them well than with a better quality balance. In my experience, the 0.1grain resolution most of them advertise is questionable.

quote:

do you have a set of check weights?

if so, set your balance scale...

load 10 rounds

and then check set again ...

Yes, the Chargemaster 750 comes with check weights to calibrate it. I use them to double check after about 5-8 rounds and the scale doesn't hold -0-. I have to re-zero it and I think this sucks and is an impediment to accuracy.

Maybe it's defective from what you say about them being more accurate than a beam. I know that RCBS is a good company and will take it back. Do you recommend this?

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Hey Vapo,

Is your Dillon a simple balance beam or is it a triple beam like the ones on this page?:

http://www.oldwillknottscales....XssZ8CFQcQagodqF3y0w

It's a simple balance beam.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Most should be pretty accurate. Just turn them on at least 30 minutes before you use it, and keep them away from air vents and fluorescent lighting.

I leave my RCBS on all the time and it doen't help at all.

I had that problem at first with my RCBS partner digital scale so i called RCBS and they gave me the instructions on how to do a master recalibration. you have to turn the scale on and when test shows on the screen you have to SIMULTANIOUSLY push the gram/grain-0-and on /off buttons all together. It will start flashing all kinds of lines and half numerals (takes a few minutes) and when it stops it will go into the normal calibration procedure with the weights. That was a few years ago and i have never had another problem. I regularly check it against my beam and it's spot on, no more zeroing all the time or anything. Most of the scales are made by PACT so it should be the same, if not call the manufacturer and ask for master recalibration instructions. Shipping is usually the culprit, plays havoc on the balancers in digital scales.

Is there a reliable electronic scale?

Yes, mine. A RCBS 1500 Chargemaster.

I use a Tanita jewelers scale. I also have an Acculab, which is good. They're both +/- 0.01gr. The other scales ain't worth a shit (+/-0.1gr) as 2 consecutive charges can vary by .2gr.

I only use them (RCBS) as "rough" guides. Then I use the accurate scales to "get em right. When I do use an RCBS scale with the powder dispenser nearly all (90% plus) the charges are off. When I want 56.0gr I ain't gettin it. The +/- 0.1gr is the norm, not the exception.

I have 2 they are both PACT scales. One works with the dispenser. As someone mentioned they need to be left on 30 minutes or so before use. The power source should be clean (no electric motors or such running on the same circuit) and static should be controlled just as you would for a balance beam scale. This being done, they are accurate to +/-.1 grain which is as accurate as anyone needs to be when loading ammunition.

I use a used dryer sheet and wipe my scales down before use also. This help to keep the static down and the numbers from jumping. My Lyman DPS 1200 is famous for that and the dryer sheet cured it.

I use the Lyman 1200 and as posted, once you learn the dryer sheet trick, it's smooth sailing. And I've had my for @ 10 years or so.
I have proofed my Lyman against my Ohaus 10/10 so many times and found it spot on that I don't do it anymore.
MY suggestion is if your scale is jumping all over, you've got other stuff going on. They are sensitive as all get out. I had mine on the reloading table and found I could not seat bullets or do much of anything whilst it was churning out the next charge. It has to have its own table. Also my reloading shop has a conventional floor and someone walking around close to my reloading table can cause it to give a bad reading. I really like mine but you've got to learn to live with it.
One trick I've learned is if the powder you're dumping tends to drop a tenth too much, set your machine to dump a tenth less than what you want and then tap the powder tube lightly with a pencil so a few more grains of powder falls in the pan and that will usually bring it up to the desired weight. That works especially well with course stick powder.

Since we are talking about dryer sheets, it might be worthwhile to mention that if you stuff one into the reservoir of your powder measure/dispenser when done with it, and in the box of powder funnels and such, it will help a lot too.

My Lyman 1200 has never missed a beat in three years. I do keep it on a seperate table from my press and other stuff. Good shooting.

I've been saving my Cabeals points to get an RCBS Chargemaster but now I'm worried. I load in my basement and have a 4' long florescent light over my bench. Now, I'm thinking I'll just stay with my Harrell's Premium powder meter and old RCBS 304 by Ohaus. Any comments on the florescent lighting?

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I've got the RCBS 750. I would have to say it sucks if you want accurate powder charges. I have to "0" it probably every 5 to 8 charges weighed. When I see the reading on the scale when the pan is off change by 1/10 of a grain I have to re zero it. I double check the charges weighed on an old Hornady balance beam. After I zero the electronic, the balance beam confirms it.

The problem with the balance beam is that pan removal and replacement is awkward and slows me down. Also, it's not easy to weigh charges at different weights as with the electronic showing the readout instantly without having to slide the scale weights in place to get the new charge.

Any suggestions?

Leave your cell phone in another room.

I have a flourescent light about 8" above the 1500 when loading and have had no problem at all. Nothing bothers mine except a draft or a bench vibration. Mine stays plugged in but off and is on a dedicated circuit with a surge protector. No static either.

It has behaved the same everytime I use it.

As far as accuracy, the other day I decided that a batch of 50 loads for my 338RUM did not give me the velocity I wanted at 92 gr RL25 so I decided to pull the bullets and increase the load to 94 gr. After pulling the bullets I would empty the powder into the pan and spoon a couple of grains more into the pan. Every one of those loads read exactly 92 gr when emptied into the pan.

Everytime I finish calibrating (which is done once when I turn it on), and then place the pan on the scale, everytime it shows a weight of exactly 155.0 gr. When I finish dispensing the load and lift the pan, everytime it reads -155.0 gr.

Never a hiccup for years now.

A good way to check for consistency would be too weigh-out your powder charge in water. Maybe two or three times your powder charge. Load your ten rounds, then weigh the water again. If it's plus or minus one-tenth grain, I wouldn't worry about it. You also must remember, a small charge will vary much more than a large charge. For rounds like my 300WSM, I load to whole integers. One grain in 65 is very small. One-tenth in 65 of RL-22 is just a red hair short of nothing...

There was an interesting article a long while back in Precision Shooting about electronic scales. What sticks in my mind was the author recounted that when he started to have repeatability issues with a high-end lab scale, he finally tracked it down to a tiny cobweb that had grown from the frame to the underside of the pan. It was enough to ruin the accuracy and repeatabilty. Food for thought, anyway. After that episode he always kept it under a glass bell jar.

I have a PACT BBK with a battery and once I let it warm up, it is spot on. ALL of my beam scales stick and I have 0 confidence in them. I did as someone said above and did the master calibration on it and it is great. It tells ME when it is .2 grains off and I simply hit the "zero" button and we are good to go. It happens maybe once in 100 rounds. I don't worry much about .1-.2 grains variance. As one of the bench rest shooters once told me at a match..."you don't see a scale here when we load, the measure is good enough for us". Neck tension will have a greater effect that .2 grains of powder.

For anyone having problems with a digital scale a choke may help.

I bought a Pact scale a couple years ago for weight sorting cases and bullets. Sometimes it worked fine, but at others it wouldn't stay on zero for more than a few seconds. I didn't have any confidence in it. The included instructions said to try it on a different circuit without a varying load. It worked fine in the dining room. My reloading room is on the same circuit as my freezer and every time it came on the scale went nuts. I added a couple ferrite chokes from Radio Shack for about $3 to the power cord, one where it plugs into the unit and one at the transformer. Now a flouresent light and a fan doesn't affect it. I can even cycle the press and the most it will do is flicker and then return to zero. I have now officially retired my Redding balance beam.

rcamuglia,
Pact powder scale and disprnser.
Bill

Thank you Gentlemen!

The only reliable electronic scale is a Denver Instruments scale(I have one). The rest are wanna be's=Junk.
I hear good things about the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 however.