Hello,

I am actually not a new reloader. I have reloaded 45 ACP for a few years now. But I believe that reloading for rifle is a bit more complicated.

I want to start reloading 308 for a semiauto AR10 rifle, and a Steyr bolt action rifle. All of my shooting is at a range. I like to make small groups. That's it. No hunting or anything. I want to make ammo at least as good as Federal Match 308.

I have thousands of questions, and bet you've heard it too often. I'll ask some here, but if there is a single book or FAQ that would be better, that works too (although I like other people saving me time - I am lazy).

1) I have saved a lot of brass. I have both Federal Match and some military. Which should I use and why? Also, does it matter which rifle was used to fire it the first time?

2) I have a Dillon 550 press. Which are the best dies for this? I am willing to pay more for dies that reduce work (did I mention I am lazy?) or produce better quality ammo. I won't pay more for a name.

3) What additional brass prep is required compared to simple cleaning for 45 ACP? Do I need a swager? Do I need to measure every case for every reload?

4) Are there good sources on the internet to purchase supplies and stuff so I don't have to go to the store (did I mention I am lazy?).

5) Any recommendations on first timer bullets and powder mix for the type of ammo I wish to produce?

Thanks.

James

quote:

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Originally posted by jimmybcool:
Hello,

I am actually not a new reloader. I have reloaded 45 ACP for a few years now. But I believe that reloading for rifle is a bit more complicated.

I want to start reloading 308 for a semiauto AR10 rifle, and a Steyr bolt action rifle. All of my shooting is at a range. I like to make small groups. That's it. No hunting or anything. I want to make ammo at least as good as Federal Match 308.

I have thousands of questions, and bet you've heard it too often. I'll ask some here, but if there is a single book or FAQ that would be better, that works too (although I like other people saving me time - I am lazy).

1) I have saved a lot of brass. I have both Federal Match and some military. Which should I use and why? Also, does it matter which rifle was used to fire it the first time?

2) I have a Dillon 550 press. Which are the best dies for this? I am willing to pay more for dies that reduce work (did I mention I am lazy?) or produce better quality ammo. I won't pay more for a name.

3) What additional brass prep is required compared to simple cleaning for 45 ACP? Do I need a swager? Do I need to measure every case for every reload?

4) Are there good sources on the internet to purchase supplies and stuff so I don't have to go to the store (did I mention I am lazy?).

5) Any recommendations on first timer bullets and powder mix for the type of ammo I wish to produce?

Thanks.

James

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If little itty bitty groups are what you after. here's what works for me.
start with good brass, i'll use Lapua, Norma,Fed match, Winchester, in that order.
size it with Redding or Forster, match dies, neck size if the brass will be used in the same rifle.
uniform the pimer pokets, debur flash holes on Fed or Win brass.
trim to lengh, chamfer and debur case mouths.
sort brass to +or- 1/10th grain groups.
i use a Sinclar tool to seat the pimers.
i use fed match pimers.
i weigh all charges to +or- 1/10th grain.
i use Berger match bullets seated with a Redding match bullet seater.
Redding single stage press for the accurate stuff and a Dillon 650 for everything else.
Works for me.

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born on a mountain, raised in a cave, hunting and fishing is all i crave!

You are going to get a lot of different opinions on this, most of which will be valid--some maybe not so valid. Good luck sorting through it! Here my two cents worth.

1. The Federal match is pretty good stuff but there may be some concern that you have brass from several different lots which may vary some in capacity. Unless the military brass is good match quality I would shuck it.
If money is not a big concern I would start fresh with a quantity of Lapua brass. No, at this time is does not matter which gun the brass has been fired in. However, you need to keep it separate from here on out.

2. I have never used the Dillon press.

3. If you are really serious about "small groups" here's the drill. a)Clean and full length size the cases (make sure your die is properly squared in the press). b)Uniform primer pockets, de-burr flash holes. c)Trim cases to a uniform length. d)turn case necks just enough to true them up. e)de-burr and champher case mouths. f)Sort cases by weight discarding any that vary from the mean by more than 10% NOTE: If you are starting with new brass it should be once fired in the rifle you are going to use it in before all this prep is done. If by swager you mean primer pocket swager -- yes if you are going to use the military cases. If by measure every case you mean measure every case for length every time it is reloaded -- no, case trimming is a periodic thing (usually every five or six loadings probably less often than that with the 308). NOTE: Steps b, d & f are one time only. Step c as I said is periodic and step e occurs only after c is performed.

4. http//www.lockstockbarrel.com & http//www.precisionreloading.com are just two of many.

5. There are lots of good bullets out there but I would start with Sierra Matchkings. As for powders, I have never owned a 308 so I really can't make a recommendation.

All of the case prep I described is not really necessary just to reload a rifle cartridge and is pretty time consuming. Also, the dividends are pretty small unless your rifles are very accurate to begin with. However, if you are shooting 3/4" groups now and shrinking them to 1/2" or maybe even 1/4" turns you on then it is probably worthwhile.

Find a good publication or instructional video on the subject. I'm sure some of the other members can recommend some.

Good luck and have fun.

[This message has been edited by Mike M (edited 09-16-2001).]

Hello,
I would invest in a single stage press. Not that accurate rifle ammo can not be run on a progressive, but there are somethings as a beginner that you should be concentrating on moreso that if that press is going stay in adjustment. It just eliminates that many more variables. I almost never use my progressive press anymore.

I would probably follow the advice to toss the milsurp stuff.

As for dies, I like to use inline seaters. Matter of fact, that is all I use.

As for supplies, Sinclair International.

Make sure you segregate the rounds you make for the styer from the AR10. Because in the Steyr you can do a technique called neck sizing, the AR10 you cannot. Bolt guns are far better to load for IMHO, due to the fact that they are more forgiving of a "tight" case and a load that is set at some point close to the lands (overlong).

As for powder, listen to your rifle. It will group well with some and less well with others. And do not think that just because Person X won 10 bench-gun competitions with a Y charge of Z brand powder that you should neccessarily emulate that. Listen to your rifle.

Get a good set of calipers and mic. Stainless steel. NOT plastic.

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Safety & Ethics,Accuracy, Velocity, Energy
Joe M

James: what kinda accuracy do the two rifles produce, or- what kind of accuracy level are you at now? No matter the fodder- still the gun must have the potential.
1. If your limiting yourself to the two brands you have- Fed hands down. Laupa are best.
2. The Lee Collet Dies are as good as any for your bolt. They size with a mandrel and save brass life- while being extremely accurate. They make a set down which includes a full sizer which will be needed of course for the auto. My FS in 308 is dead on- had it checked.
3. Just make sure do perform every function the same for each piece. Weigh them- segregate in lots. Work the flash holes and the inside edge. IF you can get your hands on a Lee Target Model Loader- no longer made, it'll uniform neck dia to the ten thou. Saves outside turning. Ebay at times has them. My unit makes load testing at the range even more fun- loading out of one case and eliminating case variation.
4. Lock, Stock and Barrel in Valentine, NE- easily located with a net search. Good people.
5. No- I could give you the loads, but that would spoil your fun.

Enjoy-- good shooting. A.

Jimmy,
I'd forget the milsurp brass. It's thicker, which makes sizing much more difficult, and you have to back off on your powder loads, or risk dangerously high pressures. I think Winchester brass is fine for .308/7.62 NATO reloads.
I like Federal 210M primers, Sierra 168 HPBT-Match and IMR4064 for my M1A.
You might want to check www.jouster.com for loading ideas for the AR10, because you'll want a powder that gets along well the gas system. The gas system timing is everything with gas guns.
Lock, Stock & Barrel, MidSouth Shooters Supply, Sinclair International, & Midway USA are all good places to shop on the Internet. They'll be happy to send free catalogs, so you can shop price. Some have products that aren't available with others, so there's variety.
Happy shooting, George.

I'll throw in my two cent's worth.

You may want to look into a runout gage to measure concentricity. When I started to reload, bullet runout killed my accuracy and drove me nuts. When this problem was solved, little tiny groups became the norm.
My gage is an RCBS Casemaster(Sinclair International, $70 ).

As usual, the other folks on the forum have got everything else covered.

Good Luck
ZM

Pick up the Sinclair Accuracy reloading book. It is worth it's weight in gold. Buy your supplies from Sinclair International then you can ask them questions. You don't have to buy all of your supplies from them because they are a little more expensive just maybe the specialty items. Get yourself a good rest, again I recommend the Sinclair benchrest model. Expensive but worth it. Sometimes it is worth paying extra just so you can get the value of others expertise. Shoot a lot. Widener's has the best prices on powder and bullets although Midway has good special sales. I can never tell whether I reload so I can shoot or shoot so I can reload. Slim

Jimmy,

Some good advise already. I would at least use the same lot of new match grade brass for both rifles, and seperate the brass after shooting to stay with each rifle. The Dillon will definately make accurate loads, don't waste your money buying another press. All the recent service rifle champs that I'm aware of use Dillon. For at least the AR-10, I would try Win 748. It always worked well with gas operated semi-autos, M-1 Garands and M-14's. I would also try Sierra Matchkings in both guns. If it won't shoot Sierra's, it won't shoot. Weight will depend on barrel twist rate on the rifles-hopefully they are close to the same (?). As said earlier, you can neck size the bolt gun, but I really wouldn't neck size the AR-10. A failure to feed in a match can be devistating, more costly than any possible accuracy improvement. I use RCBS competition dies with success, I've seen good results with Redding as well. A side note of importance- Keep a seperate notebook for each rifle you load for. Keep detailed notes in each book. That way you can keep track of loads, bullet weights, seating depths, accuracy's, velocities, temperature at range time, paste cutouts of target groups, etc. You don't want to get mixed up on what load did what in which rifle. No sense having to re-learn what you've learned. My 2 cents.

All very good advice. IF you are looking for the same accurate load to use in each, you may run inot some problems w/ bullet seating depth. As far as loads, IMR4895 or WW748 work well in either type of action. I like the various 168gr match bullets. Sierra is a good place to start, but try several different manuf. Good luck!