I came here to get your expert opinions.

I have a large quantity of 5.56mm, M193 ball ammo and would like to use it in my Contender or Ruger No 1V .223's. Before reading the SAAMI warnings, I had fired this ammo in .223 chambered firearms with no signs of high pressure, but I figure better safe than sorry. What would you do if you were me? (a.)Pull the bullets, reduce the powder by 10% and reseat the bullet. (b.) Pull the bullets, dump the powder, and load with a powder charge listed in a published .223 load, but using the pulled bullet. (c.) Other.

These rounds would be used mainly for informal target shooting.

Thanks for your help.

#1 sell the M193 Ball to me. Buy factory 223 ammo with the money.
#2 Check the chambers in your guns. They may well be able to shoot both mil surp and factory 223.
#3 Sell your guns. Buy an AR15. shoot your ammo.
#4 Have a smith recut your chambers to shoot both types of ammo.

Shoot it in the Ruger. Trade or sell the Contender.

Maybe I am asking this question in the wrong forum.

Maybe ... Maybe not.

Ball does not make good hunting ammo. Is really good only for practice ... but the cases can be loaded many more times for the Contender and the Ruger.

It is quite a hassle to pull the bullet, neck size the cases to assure neck tension, and change the powder charge.

Military 5.56 cases (particularly LC) are quite durable. If you have access to an AR-15 shot the ball for fun and reload for your Contender. If not, shoot them in the Ruger and reload them for the contender.

(Personally, I'd run'm through one of my ARs.)

zip lock the 223 and bury it. storms coming.

quote:

Originally posted by chiefs50:
Maybe I am asking this question in the wrong forum.

Hang in there. You'll be fine. Have you taken note of our smilie faces?
.

it's not target ammo, that is for sure. it will kill deer and groundhogs. i have a buddy with enough m193 to keep nato supplied for a couple of months. he pulls the bullets and inserts 50 hornady vmax bullets with no reduction in powder. shoots about 5/8" from a sako with it. then again, he is a very good shot.

quote:

Originally posted by 390ish:
it's not target ammo, that is for sure. it will kill deer and groundhogs. i have a buddy with enough m193 to keep nato supplied for a couple of months. he pulls the bullets and inserts 50 hornady vmax bullets with no reduction in powder. shoots about 5/8" from a sako with it. then again, he is a very good shot.

alot of 22's will kill "kill" a deer. finding the deer 2 days later is a different matter.
dont hunt any deer with 55 gr FMJ, please.

Seems like a good enough reason to get an AR15.

quote:

(c.) Other.

Welcome to AR. We can be an irreverent lot as you have noticed. But here's my answer for what's worth (assuming you aren't sending it to me!).

Nato spec 5.56 ammo is loaded hotter than standard stuff. A 5.56 chamber has a longer throat to it than a .223 throat. The longer throat helps insure that the bullet doesn't get crammed into the lands thereby creating a high pressure situation.

A Ruger No. 1 is about the stoutest rifle action ever made. You can shoot a few of just about anything it and be just fine. I don't know squat about Contenders, but I think they are break-open actions and therefore a bit less stout than a bolt action or certainly the No. 1.

So, there are some questions you'd like answers to but may not be able to get. For example, is the ammo loaded to NATO specs? If so, proceed with caution or sell it. How long is the throat in either of your guns? Some are made longer; the throat gets longer with use---the dreaded throat erosion.

Ultimately, my answer is proceed with caution. This stuff may be just fine for one or both guns. Look carefully for pressure signs. You can have a chamber cast made, but that's more expense than it's worth for just finding a bit to shoot this ammo.

If it doesn't work for you, I'd sell the ammo and get something else. Pulling to reload with other bullets not knowing for certain what the powder is is less than ideal. Otherwise, blast away.

Are you familiar with pressure signs?

LWD

Thanks for the feedback. I am aware of the differences in length of throat between the 5.56 and standard .223 chambers. I think I just may order some cerrosafe and make some chamber casts. I have heard that the Contender has a relatively short throat. I have fired some of this ammo in my Ruger #1V and Contender and have seen no pressure signs to date. This is M193 ball ammo I have left over from my days as a competitive shooter.

If you aren't getting pressures signs, then you are most likely good to go. Does the cartridge head have the NATO circle cross headstamp? That would be a sure indicator that it's loaded beyond SAAMI specs. But if in doubt just sell it.

LWD

Yeah, it's most likely ok but since I don't shoot hot or max loads in any of my firearms I may just sell it and use the proceeds to buy components to handload. I've got plenty of LC and WCC milsurp brass. Only problem with that is that there's not much of a market in my neck of the woods. Guess I could put an ad in the local shopper and see if there's any interest.

Mike


Accuratereloading.com The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM[/QUOTE]

the contender was originally designed for pistol cartridges and is not known to be a strong action. compare it to an encore sometime. the encore is much thicker and re-enforced more, also look at the factory chamberings. the contender is designed for cartridges which create less rearward thrust. i don't know about the ruger #1, it is a very strong action, it might be o.k. to shoot m193 in the ruger no.1 but i don't think i would gamble with it in the contender.

I have never hesitated to shoot M193 through a contender. and the 223 does not have much bolt thrust.

if i had a nickel for every round oof GI ball ammo I shot in various 223's I'd retire

higher than normal pressures will increase bolt thrust. imho it would be prudent not to ignore sammi warnings when shooting rifle cartridges in a contender. they probably know what they're talking about.

The strength of the Contender action is not the real issue; it is the length of the throat. The Contender is a very strong action and is chambered for a number of rifle cartridges that include the 45/70, .30-30 Win., .223 Rem, .35 Rem to name just a few. According to the loading charts, it is one of only two handguns in which high pressure, Colt .45 loads can be safely fired. The thing that makes me wonder about the SAAMI warning is that I have never heard of anyone having a problem shooting 5.56mm Military Ball in a Contender.

quote:

Originally posted by Zeke:
Seems like a good enough reason to get an AR15.

I'm keeping mine...

After nearly 35 years in the Army (Infantry, Combat Engineers and various specialty units) including a number of years in the competitive shooting program, I have no desire to own or shoot another rifle in the M16 family, including the AR clones.

chiefs50

I've been shooting M193 in .223 chambers since '69. Never had a problem. I use a 21" TC Contender barrel to pressure test .223/5.56 ammo including M193. SAAMI average maximum pressure for the .223 Remington is 55,000 psi. I've not found a single lot of U. S. M193 that has exceeded that average maximum. What I do know is that for the most part accuracy with all M193 has been pretty abysimal with the multiple groove rifled barrel of the TC Carbine. Usually on the order of 5-6 moa. I attribute this the the very short bearing surface of the M193 bullet and the very fine rifling of the TC barrel. Lot's that shoot 2 moa in ARs, a Savage Comp, a M70 XTR and my M700V still shoot 5-6 moa in the TC. Pulling the M193 bullets and replacing them with 52 gr Speer HPs or Hornady 55 SXs result in sub moa. Pressure with either replacement bullet remains pretty much the same.

I've no qualms about shooting M193 in any .223 chamber even the very tight match chamber in the Savage Comp (barrel set back and rechambered).

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by chiefs50:
The thing that makes me wonder about the SAAMI warning is that

Remember that SAMMI is controled by the company lawyers. If they thought they could get away with it, they'd tell you to NOT load 30-30 Win ammo into a chamber marked 30 WCF too.

quote:

Originally posted by chiefs50:
The strength of the Contender action is not the real issue; it is the length of the throat. ...

Hey Chiefs50, The Contender Barrels I had were all very l-o-n-g in the throat.

You could pull one of those specific Bullets and use the old faithful Cleaning Rod Method to check how long it is. Nothing wrong with Cerosafe, but you can do this without ordering a thing.

Best of luck to you.

[/QUOTE]Hey Chiefs50, The Contender Barrels I had were all very l-o-n-g in the throat.

You could pull one of those specific Bullets and use the old faithful Cleaning Rod Method to check how long it is. Nothing wrong with Cerosafe, but you can do this without ordering a thing.



Best of luck to you.[/QUOTE]

I used to know how to do that - can you refresh my memory?

Mike

Hey Chiefs50, If the link is still working you should be able to find it at OCL-to-ODL. As a bonus, you will also get info on how to use the Overall Seating Die Length to set the Bullet Seating Depth wherever you desire off(or into) the Lands. If the link is dead, let me know.
-----

By the way, if you do pull the Bullets, I've found it best(for me) to Resize the Case Necks so the Case Neck Grip is returned to a proper tightness.

You will need to remove the Decapping Pin(so the Live Primer doesn't get touched by it from inside the Case) and Resize the Neck. If you have a Die with removeable Decapping Pins it is no big issue to remove it. Then reset the Expander Ball to it's normal height, dump the Powder and begin Resizing.

If yours has a Fixed Decapping Pin, you "might" be able to lift the Decapping Rod high enough in the Die so the Decapping Pin will not touch the Primer, But have the Expander Ball low enough so the Case Neck has enough room to clear the Neck Resizing portion of the Die.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks to all for the input. And yes, the link still works.

Mike

I have lots of 5.56 ball.
I have a Ruger #1V .223

I do not shoot the ball in the #1 becuase:
1) Not accurate enough
2) Not explosive enough on rodents
3) Could cause Copper fouling

Been shooting my assorted .223 GI ball ammo thru AR-15s and Steyr-AUGs for many years, then the fired brass gets processed and used in bolt guns, no big deal there, except fixing the primer pockets in some batches. Best to be safe than sorry, although I have never seen a problem firing GI ball in either a Steyr SL or a Mark X Mini. If you want a real cast iron shooter for a .223, try a H&K 93, talk about a tank!!

LLS