I have been reading over and over again how great the Nosler Ballistic Tips are for Whitetails and even Elk. Man, I must be shootin a different BT then the rest of the world. I have used them in my 30-06 and 300WSM and they did not perform well at all. Explosive on impact with very little penetration. The BT's have performed so poorly at our hunting camp that they are no longer allowed.

Anybody else out there think the BT is just to fragile for big game(Whitetails) at high velocities like the 300WSM or 270 Win? Or is it "THE" Whitetail bullet and my experiences are rare?

quote:

I have been reading over and over again how great the Nosler Ballistic Tips are for Whitetails and even Elk

You have been reading somewhere other than I....

Most on the AR forums will not concurr with this at all.

What most shooters do concurr with is the accuracy attainable with the BTs.....excellent!

I haven’t heard much good about regular BTs on elk. I’ve taken 2 elk with them. They’re not my first choice in elk bullets anymore. I know they work great on antelope and that’s all I shot with them now. I’ve been playing with Nosler Ballistic Silvertips but I’m waiting to heard some field results before I use them on mule deer or elk.

Ballistic tips in .338 diam and up are more heavily constructed and are touted as being acceptable for elk by Nosler. Why anyone would use them when paritions and accubonds are available is beyond me.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
I haven’t heard much good about regular BTs on elk. I’ve taken 2 elk with them. They’re not my first choice in elk bullets anymore. I know they work great on antelope and that’s all I shot with them now. I’ve been playing with Nosler Ballistic Silvertips but I’m waiting to heard some field results before I use them on mule deer or elk.

I think those CT Ballistic Silvertips are the same bullet as the BT, but with silver-colored plastic tips instead of the various colors used on the Nosler version.

IF you want the ballistic advantage of the BT but with greater penetrating power, use an Accubond in the same caliber & weight.....

I agree with you Steve; some years ago, I had disappointing results on roe deer with 270W and 130 gr; accurate but really fragile and destructive. I don't use them any longer.

Ummm what do you mean by no penetration on whitetail?

A 150gr NBT launched from a 30-06 at approx 3000fps will go through 1 3/4 whitetail deer at 280yd. That's the only bullet I've recovered from some 150 deer I've killed over the last 15 years, the other 149 ended up in the landscape somewhere.

You are not the only one. They did not work well for me years ago on one try and never tried them again.

I only use them on deer if I can go for the
earache -- which is never. I just don't use BTs. I shoot deer with Hornady AMAX bullets in 6.5. I shot a deer years ago with a 130 grain BT from a Ruger Mini 30 and it was awful. I am sure they are great varmint bullets, but I dont use them on big game. No way I would use it on Elk. I do like partitions.

I have killed dozens of North American big-game animals with the Nosler BT's in the .308 and .30-06 & .300 Win. This is trash talk from poor shooting and excuse mentality, so don't buy into it!

The BT may be to fragile for the 270 or the 300 WSM

But IMO the BT is a fine bullet
I have been using them on deer for years
But I use them out of 7.62 x 39 , 300 Savage , 308 type rounds

Maybe if you need all that speed , a different bullet design would do you better

But to 300 yds the 308 with a 150 gr BT at 2650 fps has never failed to ground a deer
Never had to trail one past 35 yards

Johnch

I've killed more deer with my 270s and btips than any other game/bullet combination. I've never had a problem with them.

Same goes for my brother.

The last mulie I took was with a 150 Btip from my 7mag at 280 yards. High shoulder shot. Bullet shattered the spine bones on it's way through and literally took out 2 of them.

I'm dumbfounded every time I read or hear about btip failures. I am very very lucky I guess. The debate is still ho hum to me.

hmmm had been using them for years in 243, 6mm, 300 ultra and a couple other calibers. Most of them either drop in their tracks or don't run over 50 yards.
I didn't know they were bad till I joined this forum in 2005 and you all told me they weren't any good. Guess I learn something new everyday.

i've used both 150gr and 165gr ballistic tips out of my 300wsm. MVs of 3200 and 3000, when they hit the animal they want to be 2800 and below, dont want them to hit the animal with any more velocity than that!
I have never had a problem with them they have always delivered a quick clean kill when ive used them. i have only shot red deer with them. a mature stag weights roughly 100kg+ depends on how fat they are. i have shot young stags around 65kgs with them and it worked fine.


just make sure the bts arnt going to fast when they hit them and make sure you smack em in the right spot.im sure a partition aint gonna drop them on the spot with a gut shot.

Gidday Guys,

I have got to say that alot of the guys around here use Balistic tips almost exclusively asthey are such good killers. I do have one mate who refused to use them in his 243 because he has such a good run out of the 85gr Sierra HPBT. He is now considering going to the 95 BT as he has had such a good run on deer and goats with the 55gr BT in his 223.

I have used them in my 222, 243, 260, and 30-06. I have seen them used in 223, 25-06, 270, 7x64, 308, and 338 Lapua.

I have yet to see one fail at all and this is on big Canterbury Reds (upto 150 Kg) through to the little whitetail and Fallow (40 - 60 Kg).

I am amazed at the number of people who say the bullets fail. It is my opinion that it is shot placement that is the problem not bullet failure. Also this bullet is made to perform optimally at >2800fps.

It is Hunter failure not bullet failure.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

with 15+ 1 shot kills on elk and 20 on deer using nosler partitions. i personnaly wont use any other.i have also found my partition on every elk,just under the skin on the exit side.
i push my 210 partition at 3000 fps

390ish wrote:

quote:

I just don't use BTs... I am sure they are great varmint bullets. I shoot deer with Hornady AMAX bullets in 6.5. I shot a deer years ago with a 130 grain BT from a Ruger Mini 30 and it was awful. ,

--

First of all, there is no 130 grain BT in 30 caliber. I have no idea what bullet you used, but if it weighed 130 grains, it was not a BT. Secondly, you trash the BT but claim to use an A-Max, a bullet that is actually lighter in construction & MORE FRAGILE in application. So your argument doesn't hold water.

I have used the Ballistic Tips since they were first made available and have nothing but praise for them. Used within their design parameters and within the recommended velocity ranges of Nosler, the Ballistic Tip is one of the best medium game bullets ever devised -- period.

No, I wouldn't choose one for an elk hunt, but if I had my .308 WCF with 180 grain BTs loaded at 2450 fps and a good shot presented itself, I have no doubt it would do the job. In fact, I use the 30 cal/150s for hogs here in TX and have taken more than I can remember with a load that develops app. 2780 fps MV. And I normally get an exit with broadside presentations.

The 6.5mm, 120 grain BT is one of my favorite bullets for just about anything I can hunt here in TX. It doesn't matter if I launch it from a 10" 6.5 TCU at a sedate 2000 fps or a thousand fps faster in a 26" 6.5-06, it always does the job: excellent tissue destruction with more than ample penetration.

As a bonus, the Ballistic Tips shoot virtually as well as the best match bullets you can buy.

quote:

Originally posted by Hamish:
Gidday Guys,

I have got to say that alot of the guys around here use Balistic tips almost exclusively asthey are such good killers. I do have one mate who refused to use them in his 243 because he has such a good run out of the 85gr Sierra HPBT. He is now considering going to the 95 BT as he has had such a good run on deer and goats with the 55gr BT in his 223.

I have used them in my 222, 243, 260, and 30-06. I have seen them used in 223, 25-06, 270, 7x64, 308, and 338 Lapua.

I have yet to see one fail at all and this is on big Canterbury Reds (upto 150 Kg) through to the little whitetail and Fallow (40 - 60 Kg).

I am amazed at the number of people who say the bullets fail. It is my opinion that it is shot placement that is the problem not bullet failure. Also this bullet is made to perform optimally at >2800fps.

It is Hunter failure not bullet failure.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

150kg? are you talking live weight? although i was talking to a guy who got a red that was 146kg, that was guts, hocks and head off. just the carcas with the skin still on it was 146.i spose at the end of the velvet season when they are in prime condition they would be a good 30-40% heavier than right after the roar.

Typically, rib shots on deer with a BT and they'll fall over on the spot. I usually however use TSX's, partitions and North Forks and shoot them in the shoulder with the same loads I use for larger game as I don't like to change loads. That said I've shot 15-20 with a .220 Swift and 55 Sierras and none took a step. A broadside deer shot behind the shoulder requires very little penetration.

I did get a couple bad boxes of 308 165s when they were NEW. They liked to pencil straight through. Nosler replaced them with the later ones and there have been NO problems.

The 120 BTs are what I use in my 6.5-06AI at about 3000fps at the muzzle and I have never tracked a deer more than a step or two. I did shoot a big 12pt three times with them though, simply because I was not going to stop shooting until he stopped moving. He was my first real trophy. The first one did the job.

I simply use whatever shoots best from a particular rifle for deer. They are not hard to kill with any bullet, provided good shot placement.

7mm Rem Mag, 150 gr BTs, neck/head shots and they are DRT! Through the ribs, and same results, but maybe a short (25 yd) run. Based on past 7 years in S. Tx. And, every hog shot with them has been DRT.

Got a buddy in Alabama where the deer season is, IIRC, 129 days long and the limit is two does or one doe and a buck a day!! He annually kills over 200 whitetails and his church keeps the sausage grinder running 24/7 for a lot of elderly and less fortunate folks. 150gr in his old '06 P17 Remington, and the heavier one (don't remember which) in his 7STW for them powerline shots. I've killed a couple elk and several mule deer with mine in 308/30-06/300WM.

Rich
DRSS

I don't use polymer-tipped anything for hunting game. I find them too fragile for my liking. Give me a Hornady Interlock or Nosler Partition anyday.

I do poly-tips (V-Max) for varmints.

The only two whitetail - smallish Texas hillcountry - deer I shot with Nosler BTs (.308 Win, Remington Factory Premium, 150 gr. - I think) ran like hell and took a lot of tracking. When I found them, they were blown up inside (guts torn up) which made no sense based on the entry point and angle of the shot - mid-ribcage quartering away. About eighteen or more other hillcountry whitetails shot with Federal, Hornady, and Remington non-premium factory bullets / loads and I never experinced this!

I have quit using BTs as I was not happy with the blood trails shooting the 130s in a 270 Winchester.

People seem to love them or hate them.

Blackhawk1 wrote:

quote:

I don't use polymer-tipped anything for hunting game. I find them too fragile for my liking. Give me a Hornady Interlock or Nosler Partition anyday

Your reasoning has no logic to it. The Accubond and Interbond are both polymer-tipped bullets, and both are A LOT TOUGHER than the Hornady Interlock.

Plus, in extensive expansion testing, the Ballistic Tip & Interlock, of similar caliber and weight, are generally virtually identical in penetration -- and, in fact, in certain instances, the BT often out-penetrates the ILs, albeit by relatively small and insignificant margins.

Deacon Dick wrote:

quote:

When I found them, they were blown up inside (guts torn up) which made no sense based on the entry point and angle of the shot - mid-ribcage quartering away.

While I certainly was not there to witness the shots, it could be that the quartering angle was less than it appeared to be or that the deer moved slightly as you pulled the trigger, hence the gut-shot animal and long tracking job.

Things like that happen in the field when you hunt long enough. A few years ago, I took a doe at 55 yards that I swore was perfectly broadside. I was using a Ruger SRH in .44 Magnum with a 250 grain Partition at 1400 fps. I thought I centered the lungs, but in fact, the bullet took the back of the lungs and a good portion of the liver before continuing on its merry way. I was dumbfounded. But I went back to where the deer was standing when I shot and looked at the tracks in the muddy soil. Sure enough, the "digs" showed a definite quartering angle to my location. It really didn't matter in this instance as the doe went less than 40 yards after the impact, but it still gives one something to think about.

Lighting and shadows can play a part, but a deer can also move slightly at the very last moment.

quote:

Originally posted by steve4102:
I have been reading over and over again how great the Nosler Ballistic Tips are for Whitetails and even Elk. Man, I must be shootin a different BT then the rest of the world. I have used them in my 30-06 and 300WSM and they did not perform well at all. Explosive on impact with very little penetration. The BT's have performed so poorly at our hunting camp that they are no longer allowed.

Anybody else out there think the BT is just to fragile for big game(Whitetails) at high velocities like the 300WSM or 270 Win? Or is it "THE" Whitetail bullet and my experiences are rare?

I've experienced my only two bullet "failures" (blow up) with the first 150gr. ballistic tips in whitetails at close range with a .308. It bugged me to give them up because they always gave really excellent accuracy.

Good shooting,
desmobob

I have been using BT`s since they came out.I have never lost an animal shot with the BT.That is probably several hundred by now.At close range the BT for me generally does not leave an exit wound,but who cares as the animals go down right now.I am talking Deer and up for animals.Probably Big Bear is the only thing I would not use them on.I find them to be the most accurate Bullet I can shoot from a hunting Rifle. if you put them where they are supposed to go,you will have no problems with them!!!!!!!!!

Interesting replies....

It's not enough for some to merely respond by saying they've had good luck with them, but some go on to refer to the reports of bad performance as "trash talk," "poor shooting," "excuse mentality," "hunter failure," etc.(people who have have absolutely no personal knowledge of the experience of the hunter or the particular incidents).

That's just plain rude and insulting.

What would you think if I had added that any clod that had GOOD experiences with them was such a poor hunter it was just dumb sh*thouse luck they even stumbled onto any game and were actually able to HIT it? It wouldn't add much to the credibility of my post....

Good shooting,
desmobob

Gidday Paul,

The weight of 150kg the Red Stags go is with stomach and intestines only removed. This is on animals that are sold for pet food and that is how they are required by the food standards authority when they go on Graeme's scales.

I can't remember the exact weights but I pretty sure one or two were over 150. That is not abnormal for a Rakaia or Wilberforce red. Those up the Harper are pretty big also but they have all gone in my freezer.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

quote:

Originally posted by Hamish:
Gidday Paul,

The weight of 150kg the Red Stags go is with stomach and intestines only removed. This is on animals that are sold for pet food and that is how they are required by the food standards authority when they go on Graeme's scales.

I can't remember the exact weights but I pretty sure one or two were over 150. That is not abnormal for a Rakaia or Wilberforce red. Those up the Harper are pretty big also but they have all gone in my freezer.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

still 150kg is a big stag. i spose the head weighs a good 5-10kg, the hocks would only be below 5. unsure about the heart/liver/lungs possible 20? thats still only 35kg or so, so with how we have been weighing them here thats 115kg.


I have this facination with the rakaia. i've never been hunting out of the north island but the first place id go would be the rakaia. if i were going in for my first hunt in there where would you suggest? i dont expect you to give away your secretes of where the best heads are. id possible go to the block in a chopper but id like to start somewhere where i could have easy access to most of the block, dont really want to negotiate with vertical rock faces

Gidday Paul,

For quick and easy access to the Rakaia herd one of the easiest places to have a crack is Pudding Hill Stream up behind Methven on the Mt Hutt access road. Though being so close it does get a bit of a trashing from the locals but you can pick up some rather good heads up there.

Another good place to try is the faces above Kiwi flat up the Wilberforce. Camped there you get good access to Takahe stream and Kiwi stream though in spring you will have plenty on your hands looking after the beasties on the gentler slopes above your camp. They also give you good access to the tops.

Its pretty nasty up there now with snow everywhere. My trapline is just around the corner up the Harper and needless to say there is nothing happening there with a couple of feet of snow on the ground. Its sending me broke waiting for the weather to break.

If you want we can jack something up. Give me an idea when you want to come down and I will try to sort something out.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

quote:

It's not enough for some to merely respond by saying they've had good luck with them, but some go on to refer to the reports of bad performance as "trash talk," "poor shooting," "excuse mentality," "hunter failure," etc.(people who have have absolutely no personal knowledge of the experience of the hunter or the particular incidents).

That's just plain rude and insulting.

What would you think if I had added that any clod that had GOOD experiences with them was such a poor hunter it was just dumb sh*thouse luck they even stumbled onto any game and were actually able to HIT it? It wouldn't add much to the credibility of my post....

desmobob900ss,

Good point, I try not to get too emotional on this forum. Some people can’t help themselves though.

I said the ballistic Tip was not my first choice for elk. I should have refined that statement and said the 7mm 150 grain Ballistic Tip was not my first choice for elk.

Would I use them on elk? Yes but only in a pinch. I have had a good elk killing bullet long before the BT was thought of and I still use them.

There are 2 manufactures of bullets I use all the time for big game, Nosler and Sierra.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
desmobob900ss,

Good point, I try not to get too emotional on this forum. Some people can’t help themselves though.

I said the ballistic Tip was not my first choice for elk. I should have refined that statement and said the 7mm 150 grain Ballistic Tip was not my first choice for elk.

Would I use them on elk? Yes but only in a pinch. I have had a good elk killing bullet long before the BT was thought of and I still use them.

There are 2 manufactures of bullets I use all the time for big game, Nosler and Sierra.

Because the Ballistic Tips shoot so well in my rifles, I'm anxious to give the Accubonds a try. I'm guessing they'll give the same great accuracy as the Ballistic Tips with the performance improvement of a bonded core.

It's looking like I'll be hunting just whitetails this fall and the ammo is all loaded and ready to go: 140gr. Sierra Game Kings for the .270, 180gr. Nosler Partitions for the .300WM, and 130gr. Hornady Single Shot Pistol bullets AND 150gr. Ballistic Tips for the Contender 10" 30/30. :-)

I'll pick up a selection of Accubonds and see how they shoot in my hunting arms.

Good shooting,
desmobob

Gidday Desmobob900ss,

I'm sorry I did not mean to demean your experiences. We all have our own experiences from all around the world that we share on this forum. Each one of these experiences is valid and should be respected.

I do know from my own experiences that when I have a bit of a balls up I try to find another reason than myself for the situation. So to really get to the bottom of the situation I blame myself first unless there is evidence to the contrary.

It is more likely that I have stuffed up than the equiptment has failed. I have not checked the gear, I have selected the wrong equipment for the job, or I have used the gear in an inappropriate way outside it's design parameters.

These are the usual reasons that something has gone wrong in my experience.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

BT, imnsho, are the definition of bullet failure, when used on game.

Nosler felt so strongly, in the same manner, that they created the accubonds, which is a MUCH tougher field use bullet.


someone once said, here, that more game is lost to too hard a bullet than too soft... LMAO, how the hell can that be proved, as the game is lost.

I think more game is lost to POOR SHOOTING and POOR CHOICES than guns

I have a relative who won't use anything but Ballistic Tips in his 7mm Magnum for elk, antelope, bear etc. and he likes the ligher ones too (140 or 150 I think). He is such a good shot it puts me to shame. I'm not convinced BTs are best for folks like me who won't shoot at long range, but I can't argue with success.

I've used Nosler BTs for years for antelope, deer, elk, and caribou; and, instantaneous kills are the rule, not the exception. Of course, like all other bullets, one needs to put the bullet in the "boiler room." Butt shots don't work, but don't blame the bullet, blame the shooter. Also, in my experience, NBTs are the most accurate hunting bullets on the market, even better than Sierra.

Actually, I believe many of the new premium bullets are too heavily constructed for North American big game, which are thin skinned critters - sans the grizzly.

jeffeosso wrote:

quote:

I think more game is lost to POOR SHOOTING...

---
To that portion of your post, I wholeheartedly agree and say "Amen!"

I have seen far too many hunters who couldn't hit a deer-sized object -- and I don't mean the vitals; I mean the deer PERIOD -- even with the aid of a bench-steady rest.

And the percentage of hunters who fall into that category is, IMHO, quite high. Also, many have no clue as to the trajectory of their gun/scope/load combo. There's one older guy in the area who says his .270 WCF "shoots flat to 500 yards. I don't worry about holdover."

He obviously doesn't worry about cleanly killing the deer, either. (Of course, those "300 yard shots" for folks like this are more than likely something like 125 yards -- if the truth be known.)

I can feel my blood pressure on the rise, so I'd better get off my soap box for now...