i am carrying a charter arms bulldog (older one) when walking around w/the grandkids looking for "treasure" around a coupla old homestead sites and pop it off every so often for practice and am getting pounded on my old hands by the load, a 240 gr cast over 5.8 gr unique which is the lowest i can go in several loading manuals. since i'd only use it for snakes etc (no bears around here) i would like a lighter load. anyone use a milder load lemme know please. thanks

Hornady lists 4.7; I normally use 4 red dot and 200 grainers in my 44 Colts. Just go pop. CB shooting. I actually train a lot of guys on 44 colt revolvers after they buy 40 cal autos and can't control them. They don't understand details about the size of holes in the barrels.
Now, today in history, David Berkowitz (Son of Sam Killer), was in court in 1978. I knew him well; he was our Battalion Personnel clerk and sat in the office directly across from mine. I was the S3. We called him Berk the Clerk; nice guy. All serial killers are nice. He was out of the Army then.
He used the same revolver as yours.

5.8grs of Unique is a minimum load generates around 8200 cup.
You could try a minimum load of 2400 should reduce the felt recoil by a 1000 cups.

thanks guys that gives me options.
dpsd......by "can't control them" you mean double taps or?? we have 3? 40s and way too much reloads for em. never found em hard to shoot even going hot. others do? in what way?
i was patrolling west texas in 1978 and had heard a lot about the SOS killer.

Many guys can't shoot a 40 cal auto; they are afraid of them. Of course they aren't hard to control for us, but look out into the public; I see it all the time.
Using 2400 would be a step in the wrong direction; the added powder charge weight will contribute to recoil. That is not the issue.
Pressure is not a factor in recoil; not sure where that idea came from.
Hornady lists 4.7 Unique as a minimum. I use Red Dot, as I said.

If you want lower velocity/less recoil, there are a bunch of Cowboy Action loads, usually with Trail Boss using both a lighter bullet and lower velocity in .44 special.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If you want lower velocity/less recoil, there are a bunch of Cowboy Action loads, usually with Trail Boss using both a lighter bullet and lower velocity in .44 special.

DAMMITT why didn't i think of that! i have a jug of TB! too much going on i guess. gonna try that next. thanks

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Many guys can't shoot a 40 cal auto; they are afraid of them. Of course they aren't hard to control for us, but look out into the public; I see it all the time.
Using 2400 would be a step in the wrong direction; the added powder charge weight will contribute to recoil. That is not the issue.
Pressure is not a factor in recoil; not sure where that idea came from.
Hornady lists 4.7 Unique as a minimum. I use Red Dot, as I said.

i'm not out in the public. much. for a few years now. so i'll take ur word for it. we're gonna wring out a 500 S&W and a BFR 45-70 this afternoon then maybe tomorrow if my wrist is intact i'll go load some 44 spl with 4.7 uniq and TB and see what happens.

I needed some light loads for the Wife's 329 in .44 mag. I used mag cases instead of specials. Came up with 5.5 gr of Win 231 under a 240 LSWC. A fellow shooter shot some across his screens for me and they averaged 577.3 fps. Book said they'd do 800. These loads a very nice to shoot in such a light gun.

Win. only lists 4.8 gr 231 with a 220 BERB FP in the special case.

quote:

they averaged 577.3 fps. Book said they'd do 800. These loads a very nice to shoot in such a light gun.

I would think nice to shoot.

Never believe book velocities

especially when they use a 7-1/2' barrel and yours is 3"s.
titegroup makes a fine light kicking load under a 240gr bullet at 4 grs too.
drop to a 200gr bullet and you'll be tempted to look down the barrel to see if the bullet come out.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
especially when they use a 7-1/2' barrel and yours is 3"s.
titegroup makes a fine light kicking load under a 240gr bullet at 4 grs too.
drop to a 200gr bullet and you'll be tempted to look down the barrel to see if the bullet come out.

didn't wanna say anything but the observation about bbl length is right on. i dropped it to 4.8 gr unique w/a 255 gr cast, which is what i have on hand (thought they were 240 grs as the box they are in is so old and been moved so many times the label is unreadable). don't wanna buy a new mold etc just for the few times i'll shoot this thing so i'll buy a box of 200 gr or ? at the LGS tues. the 255 gr over 4.8 uniq is only about 10% easier to shoot than the others. buddy shot it too and he said it recoils almost as bad as his 44 mag. that little shit of a gun does let you know its been shot! i also took a box of them marked "44 spl MILD" from the 80s i'd loaded. no other infor on box. i shot one of em and we put the rest of em thru his blackhawk just to use em up to get the brass. we were shooting that gun at a gong at 121 yds and was like shooting blind. all over the place. then he noticed the rear sight elevation screw was gone. said his son, who'd carried it around here for hogs, had used it last, then left for basic in the marine corp about the time the CHINESE FLU hit. i said it that way cause now in san antonio, an hour from here, they passed a resolution that saying that is now considered a hate crime. been one of those days/weeks!

John, I too have a Bulldog of recent stainless manufacture. I had already made up some handloads of 5.0 grains of Bullseye under the Lee 200-grain RNFP in Starline brass. Darn if these loads aren't very difficult to extract. I was about to send the thing back for a chamber polish when I tried some mild Ultramax 200-grain cowboy loads and they extract just fine. So I am going to look for a handload with something besides Bullseye.

Five grains of bullseye is not a light load.

I gotta agree the barrel length can make a difference, as does just different guns. While working around loads I ran some 240 LSWC with 7.2 gr Unique in Magnum cases: in her 4" gun they ran 606.3 fps and in my DW 8" they ran 675.4 fps. The Unq. loads recoiled noticeably more (in her gun) than the Win 231 did.

A little extra speed, a little extra powder weight, etc. It all adds up.

Not max, either, Tom, but enough to give trouble in my Bulldog. I will try some Trail Boss and some Universal low-end loads and see how they extract.

I would start with a 200 grain projie and then see what recoil is like. Doubt you will find a varmint or snake that can notice the reduction in Projie weight!
If you are wringing out 500s and 45-70s I am surprised the Bulldog is an issue, but it is light and small.
If you have not, then one thing that really tames those small guns is the Pachmyar(sp) "Compac" grips.

I never pass up a chance to bad mouth my bullpuppy.
Same one I THREW into the back of the safe some years ago.
Dug it out and put it on the bench a while back to see if I can get it to work since tripS back to charter were unsuccessful.
First gun that I have bought that was a lemon.
A friend bought a Taurus 738 since he liked mine so well.
His was a POS from the get-go.
I Think Taurus FINALLY fixed it two broken trigger pins and other work later.
I have never heard of another bad Bulldog, but I know of at least one!

quote:

Originally posted by TCLouis:
I would start with a 200 grain projie and then see what recoil is like. Doubt you will find a varmint or snake that can notice the reduction in Projie weight!
If you are wringing out 500s and 45-70s I am surprised the Bulldog is an issue, but it is light and small.
If you have not, then one thing that really tames those small guns is the Pachmyar(sp) "Compac" grips.

I never pass up a chance to bad mouth my bullpuppy.
Same one I THREW into the back of the safe some years ago.
Dug it out and put it on the bench a while back to see if I can get it to work since tripS back to charter were unsuccessful.
First gun that I have bought that was a lemon.
A friend bought a Taurus 738 since he liked mine so well.
His was a POS from the get-go.
I Think Taurus FINALLY fixed it two broken trigger pins and other work later.
I have never heard of another bad Bulldog, but I know of at least one!

take my word for it, the 500 and 45-70s are NOT running full loads. right now we are running 12 gr trail boss under a 350 (?) gr cast in the 45-70 and 19.5 unique under a 335 cast in the 500. we are working up loads to see how much recoil we can take as we progress. we're just a coupla old guys at a range we set up nearby shooting everything we own b4 we get too old or worn down. i figure it will 5 years to go thru everything. we also do a lotta ranch type work (fencing, shredding, building repairs, chainsawing etc) everyday so drinking bourbon, shooting, and arguing with the wifes are about our only entertainment. and cussin liberals. and the grandkids. like most soon to be 70 yr olds i have arthritis in hands that limit how hot i can run a pistol these days. dammit

I loaded up some 185 grain full wadcutter for my new Bulldog. Can’t remember the load, actually I don’t try to remember them... I’m too old for that. It’s in my log book out in my shop.

if your LGS is stocked half decent they might have some 200gr plated bullets there.
those actually work quite acceptably for low and slow in the 44 special.
their cost is usually on par or better than many cast bullets, but they still have a soft enough alloy to have a nice splat factor when needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
I loaded up some 185 grain full wadcutter for my new Bulldog. Can’t remember the load, actually I don’t try to remember them... I’m too old for that. It’s in my log book out in my shop.

yep. i used to be able to rattle off loads and stats. nowdays i try NOT to remember em. too much room for error.

just tried 4.0 gr titegroup under a 240 gr cast. winner!

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:
i am carrying a charter arms bulldog (older one) when walking around w/the grandkids looking for "treasure" around a coupla old homestead sites and pop it off every so often for practice and am getting pounded on my old hands by the load, a 240 gr cast over 5.8 gr unique which is the lowest i can go in several loading manuals. since i'd only use it for snakes etc (no bears around here) i would like a lighter load. anyone use a milder load lemme know please. thanks

john,
Have you tried patterning it with snake shot?

the snake shot i have used in years past is a joke. i have "patterened" it on 3 snakes, and 2 cardboard boxes. on 38 and 44 spl. the cardboard showed huge open spaces between the shot at 10 ft and a capsule hole. the rattlesnake slithered away and the 2 bullsnakes flinched and sat there unhurt. in my opinion snakeshot is a gimmick. period.

John, glad the Titegroup load is working for you. Hope to try some Trail Boss tomorrow.
Regarding snake shot, the first rattler I killed with it was back in Oregon -- about a three-footer, from about six feet with the CCI .22 LR snake load of I thin, #12 shot. Dead instantly.
A couple of weeks ago I shot a similar-sized diamondback here in NM at about five feet with the CCI .38/.357 shot load. The first round made him angry and the second round made him crazy. Next up was a 160-grain cast flat nose and that did the trick.
I was deeply disappointed with that .38 snake load.
I will pattern the CCI .44 SPL/.44 Mag snake load and see if it is as poor a performer as the .38. If it is, I am going back to a .22 for desert utility carry.

Bill, I think you will like the 44 spl snake shot loads. I used to load my own about 30 years ago so I don't recall the load but getting the shot was the problem. If memory serves it was # 12 but I could be mistaken. It was a good performer, however.

Here is a interesting article on extending the range for 22 snake shot loads.

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/...verse-paradox-tubes/

No work has been done in the center fire area.

Tried 4.5 of Trail Boss under the 200-grain cast Lee, Starline brass and CCI 300. I got three-ish inch group at 15 yards, but a foot low. Mile recoil, extraction with minor difficulty. I think I need to polish my chambers with Flitz or something.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Tried 4.5 of Trail Boss under the 200-grain cast Lee, Starline brass and CCI 300. I got three-ish inch group at 15 yards, but a foot low. Mile recoil, extraction with minor difficulty. I think I need to polish my chambers with Flitz or something.

Better off selling that charter piece of crap and buying a good revolver

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:
the snake shot i have used in years past is a joke. i have "patterened" it on 3 snakes, and 2 cardboard boxes. on 38 and 44 spl. the cardboard showed huge open spaces between the shot at 10 ft and a capsule hole. the rattlesnake slithered away and the 2 bullsnakes flinched and sat there unhurt. in my opinion snakeshot is a gimmick. period.

Hmmm . . . I've never had a problem taking out rattlesnakes with a .38 using CCI shot capsules. Fittingly, I shoot them with a Colt Diamondback.

I would have thought that the .44 capsules would be even better. But maybe the gun is the problem -- have you tried shooting a Bulldog with the shot capsules? Maybe you would have more luck with snakes if you tried an Anaconda?

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:
the snake shot i have used in years past is a joke. i have "patterened" it on 3 snakes, and 2 cardboard boxes. on 38 and 44 spl. the cardboard showed huge open spaces between the shot at 10 ft and a capsule hole. the rattlesnake slithered away and the 2 bullsnakes flinched and sat there unhurt. in my opinion snakeshot is a gimmick. period.

Hmmm . . . I've never had a problem taking out rattlesnakes with a .38 using CCI shot capsules. Fittingly, I shoot them with a Colt Diamondback.

I would have thought that the .44 capsules would be even better. But maybe the gun is the problem -- have you tried shooting a Bulldog with the shot capsules? Maybe you would have more luck with snakes if you tried an Anaconda?

sure! i'll just shit out a gold brick everytime my for when my snakeshot only anaconda gets dirty and buy a new one. neighbor has shot 2 cottonmouths in 2 weeks at his cattle ponds and said he gave up on snakeshot in his ruger 44 mag using 44 spl years ago. nowdays he just takes out the 12 ga. but i ain't gonna go walking with a 12 ga .

I know the Colt "snake guns" were done in jest + I know that the Charter Arms Bulldog is damn sure not top of the line but it works well + is light to carry. It is a viable option. IMO

Randy, I, too, believe the Bulldog is a "viable option." I'd like to get mine slicked up. I'll contact Charter and ask about improving extraction.

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:
the snake shot i have used in years past is a joke. i have "patterened" it on 3 snakes, and 2 cardboard boxes. on 38 and 44 spl. the cardboard showed huge open spaces between the shot at 10 ft and a capsule hole. the rattlesnake slithered away and the 2 bullsnakes flinched and sat there unhurt. in my opinion snakeshot is a gimmick. period.

Hmmm . . . I've never had a problem taking out rattlesnakes with a .38 using CCI shot capsules. Fittingly, I shoot them with a Colt Diamondback.

I would have thought that the .44 capsules would be even better. But maybe the gun is the problem -- have you tried shooting a Bulldog with the shot capsules? Maybe you would have more luck with snakes if you tried an Anaconda?

sure! i'll just shit out a gold brick everytime my for when my snakeshot only anaconda gets dirty and buy a new one. neighbor has shot 2 cottonmouths in 2 weeks at his cattle ponds and said he gave up on snakeshot in his ruger 44 mag using 44 spl years ago. nowdays he just takes out the 12 ga. but i ain't gonna go walking with a 12 ga .

I have shot a pile of rattlesnakes in AZ using a Ruger Single Six with regular .22 LR ammo. Shot some with a .357 and cast bullets as well. It isn't like you need to hit the head at 25 yards...more like ten or less.

i have also shot a pile of em. 99% at 10 feet or less. a few years ago 2 coral snakes at a water spigot on outside wall of house in exact same place within 10 minutes of each other. my weenie dog let me know they were there. a huge cottonmouth on polebarn in shade, he looked like a cowpie till he i got real close. two huge rattlers in a small 10x10' hunting tent i walked in on. yes i have pics. lots more. to hell with a few #7 BBs. i use whats on my hip that works. 3" 44 spl, bulldog, 45 colt. 22s are good too. buddy shot one last week with a ruger 380. he kept aiming at head and kept missing and one rd left so he just shot at the body and hit it and watched it crawl away to die. birdshots for dove, not poisonous snakes.