I am helping a friend develop a load to equal the Hornady hand loaded ammo. It shoots well (out to 500 yards) 165 gr SP spitzer BT cruising at about 3100fps. This is rightmuch fast and is noted as a hot load.

Suggestions on which powder to start with?

I'm not sure you can get to 3100fps w/ std. canister powders. Have you actually chronographed the Hornady (lt.mag I assume) load? With out the chronograph you are just making a WAG.
Your best bet will probably be w/ a short cut slow burner like H4831sc in a compressed load (long drop tube). I would think you can get to 3000fps safely. One of the VV550 or 560 may get you to 3000fps too. Good luck.

I'd try the VV high energy powders like those mentioned above, however the old standby H414 should be included in the mix too. H414 has mustered better than 3100f/s with 150s, and accuracy was good to boot.

I show I have gotten 2900fps from 57gr of IMR4350. You could probably push this a bit more, but it is a listed max in some books. Kudude

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Originally posted by kudude:
I show I have gotten 2900fps from 57gr of IMR4350. You could probably push this a bit more, but it is a listed max in some books. Kudude

I have shot a boat load of 58.5 Grain of IMR 4350 with the 165 Grn Hornady. Got pretty flat primer that loosened on 3 ot 4 reloads, I never chronographed it. Got a tremendous muzzle blast.
I would not recommend it I think 57 might be more sane.

Those Hornady Light Magnum loads are using powders not sold to the general public....

try disassembling one of the rounds and see how many grains they are putting in the case, and you might be able to cross reference some reloading data for an idea...

ONe member posted disassembling either the Hornady or Federals equivalent a few years ago.. I remember it was full of 72! grains of some flake powder....

IMR 3031 is a powder that does not have quick pressure spikes.. FOR ACADEMIC SAKES ONLY!The Speer Manual # 7 ( 1966 or so) lists a load of 50 grains of 3031 for an MV of 2873 fps, and a load of 53 grains of IMR 4895 for an MV of 3015 fps with a 150 grain bullet...and 53 grains of 4064 gave an MV of 2989 fps.. all with 150 grain bullets..

Lyman's Number 48 manual, lists a load of 57 grains of W 760 ( same as H 414) with a 165 grain bullet with an MV of 2959 fps...with a pressure of 58,600 psi.....

I have worked up the IMR loads above to 55 grains with a 165 grain Rem SP seated to the cannelure...without pressure problems in a Model 70 and a 1917 Enfield...I did not chronograph them tho...

A friend from years ago, who resided back in Wisconsin, use to load a 150 grain to 3100 fps, in a Mauser he had...

This can be done.... but lets take a look on the practical side???

Why do you feel the need to turn a 30/06 into a 300 Magnum????

do you really think the extra 100 to 150 fps is worth the real world risk of overpressurization and the damage it MAY cause in SOME rifles???

if you need it that bad, and it is for hunting once a year, why not just buy the factory ammo???

these are decisions every reloader must weigh out...

In my opinion, a 165 grain bullet at 2900 fps plus, you have a very hard hitting and flat shooting combo.. why push it farther for minimal gains.. the extra 150 fps, can be compensated for, by two clicks up on the scope's elevation turrents... and the increase in foot lbs, is not going to be critical in its ability to stop game, unless you need every ounce of it, stopping dangerous game at meer footsteps from you... IN that case, I'd have something with a lot more punch than the 06 is going to give me....

Hornady lists the 165gr BTSP 30-06 lite mag stuff at 3015 fps and I`d be optimistic about it reaching that in the average hunting rifle let alone 3100 fps. Any handload that is close to 2900 fps in this cartridge with the 165 gr is pushing the envelope in my book. I`d do as the others suggest and buy the factory stuff for hunting. Or get a 300 mag if more velocity is needed.

Thanks one and all for the info. THis and a couple of other posts in this forum will become a plan for load developments. I'll start with 4350 and let you know how it goes. Since I have no .30-06's with scopes, I'll build (and document) my procedures with .308 (for my 40x) then duplicate the procedure to .30-06 with his rifle (CZ). Both have good scopes and triggers. It'll be a few months before it warms up, so that's plenty of time for brass prep.

try this...

take a 30-06 lightmag and pull the bullet... then TRY to get the powder back in.

here's my opinion... the 30-06 AINT a 300 Win, but it's withing 90% ... it's cheaper to shoot it at that OR sell/replace with a 300win than to blow UP a 30-06, and then, after one heals, get a 300 win and have a flinch for life

jeffe

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and then, after one heals, get a 300 win and have a flinch for life

165 at 3100?

You are not going to do this and be safe.

Finaly, a minute to sit down at the confuser. I think the 3015 is the right #, and mostlikely from a 26" bbl, where I'm using a 24. So 2900 is the goal as pressure allows. Accuracy is the priority.

As a precursor to doing the 30-06's, I'm starting in now on length trimming of 250+ rounds of .308 (after I moterize the trimmer tonight). Then will be building a moterized gizmo for annealing case necks. (all to get maximum uniformity).

In reading this thread a second time, it strikes me funny that no one mentioned why a pressure ceiling equaling that of the 270 Winchester couldn't be used on the -06. There is no reason one can't do this if done carefully. I did this in my -06 with 150 grain bullets, and it was my experience that the old -06 will beat the 270 when bullets of like weight/ sectional density are compared head to head.

I've tried several powders in the 30-06 but have found H-414 to be a very good powder...I've also used H-4350 and RL 22....all produce good results.

Any of them properly loaded to 270 Win levels can push the 165 grain almost 3,000 '/sec

There is very little reason to go further...it's not worth it at all.

Been there...done that.....stop at 3,000 and preferably at 2900!

Interesting!
One of the charts of powder burn rates I've got pusts H414 right next to IMR4350 and RL22 aobut 10 down the list slower.

So far I've noted 4350 and 414 mentioned most often.

quote:

he charts of powder burn rates I've got pusts H414 right next to IMR4350 and RL22 aobut 10 down the list slower.

The charts do not tell us what spacing is on the burn rates.....example the charts may have two identical powders, one first then the other, implying one faster than the other but there's no difference....

Because one is listed ten powders away from another don't necessarily mean one is faster than the other when in fact they could be identical.

I'm not saying the Rl22 is not slower than H-414 what I'm saying simply is that it don't have to be simply because it's listed lower.

Right on the money!

Nosler #3 lists the following as a max load:

165 gn bullet
63.0 gn. RL 22
3000 fps.

I've been able to exceed this charge weight in my Browning 1885 for a Velocity of 3044 fps with a NBT and Fed. 210M primer.

This is not max but I can't fit any more powder in the case (I have to vibrate the powder in as it is) and the charge weight I use is very accurate in this rifle anyway so I feel no need to try and push it further.

I'm sure most here would agree that in most cases one can work up safe loads in strong firearms that exceed the max listed in the manual.

Here you have a load listed in a manual that gets 3000 fps with a 165 gn. bullet in a 30-06. The barrel is listed as 23.5". I'd say this is a good place to start.

EDIT: Just checked the current Nosler manual (#5). The same load is listed, this time with a 24" barrel for 3002 fps.
Load density 105%. Compressed load.



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