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Nickel vs. Brass
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted
I know accuracy is all about consistencies and constants. Anybody ever checked to see if the same head stamped case in brass versus nickel effects accuracy...

In other words, if I shot a groups with all nickel and all brass then mixed, would there be any difference?


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10133 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of bartsche
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Roll EyesWhen you say all nickel do you mean nickel plated ?

I suppose different neck to bullet holding forces could yield some velocity and accuracy differences.

I've never seen any test data of what you ask.
beerroger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Yes, nickel plated


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10133 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Nit-picky consistency is one part of accuracy--way down from the usual—the bullet used, the trigger, the sights, the barrel, the powder and charge used, and the shooter (not in any order).
Consistency means something for long range (>600 yards), when everything else is taken care of, but less for up-close and normal ranges.
Real "consistency" means the bullet is concentric with the bore and all charges are within 0.5% of the same.
Concentric case neck can also help.
The key to case consistency that the OP is asking about is internal volume after firing (not weight or head stamp or color or anything else)--so, measure the case capacity after firing and see if they are consistent.
 
Posts: 130 | Location: AZ | Registered: 17 July 2010Reply With Quote
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Picture of dpcd
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In a pistol; definitely no. In a rifle; no.
Nickel does come with some issues though; like flaking off and cracking,, before pure brass ones will. I have fired thousands of rounds of both and to me, they all shoot the same. In pistol and revolver.
 
Posts: 17266 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Yes, there is a difference but, to me, it can be attributed to a difference in case capacity and neck tension.
Even within the same brand, the cases weigh more and have less capacity and greater neck tension, than std brass, which translates out to more pressure with the same load.
Use the "appropriate" caution it you're going to mix brass.
Pistol plinking, I don't care so much but I'm very critical of what I do when loading a rifle.
Zeke
 
Posts: 2270 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of dpcd
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Of course, in rifles, you should keep brass segregated by make and determine loads commensurately. Nickel plated or not.
 
Posts: 17266 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of Dulltool17
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I'd have to say the difference is pretty inconsequential. I used to pick up nickel-plated brass from my old club right after the FBI used our range. The only difference I noted was that the nickel tended to "drag" a bit in my dies. Other than that, I'm not good enough with my .40 to say whether accuracy was affected. "Minute of center mass" was always achievable at any distance up to 50 ft. I don't have the same expectations with my .40 as my .357 or rifles.


Doug Wilhelmi
NRA Life Member

 
Posts: 7503 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: 15 October 2013Reply With Quote
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Picture of jeffeosso
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in absolute terms, yes ..

when i was much younger, and only a little dumber ...

what is a warm (less than book max) 708 load results in burst primers in nickel brass.. loaded side by side with brass

don't know how much the vels were different, but it was the same maker of brass

3 shots, 3 blown primers ... shots 2 and 3 were tied to a tire, btw....

sample set of one -


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 39567 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of MickinColo
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Mike, after all the things you have learned on AR, you ask a question about nickle plated brass?

I have never noticed a difference between brass and nickle plated, except nickle scratches easy, flakes off after a few reloads, and generally looks like crap after 3 or 4 reloads.
 
Posts: 2650 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 15 February 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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MickimCo,

I am a slow learner...


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10133 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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The only difference I see is that the nickel cases scratch up your dies, as to accuracy, who knows?
Internal case capacities may be different between the brass and nickel cases, even in the same brand.
Have you tested it yourself yet?

Cheers.
tu2
 
Posts: 683 | Location: N E Victoria, Australia. | Registered: 26 February 2009Reply With Quote
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If you believe that nickel plated cases scratch your dies, what do you think they are doing to your chamber?


NRA Patron Life Member Benefactor Level
 
Posts: 1283 | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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Shooting prairie dogs, coyotes, or deer I have never noticed any difference between the two, powder charge, primer, and bullet was the same. I have never compared on paper or with max loads. I have even used in my 250AI and 35 Whelen AI without noticing any differences for case life etc..
 
Posts: 869 | Location: N Dakota | Registered: 29 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I haven't noticed any differences, I use nickel-plated ones for a 6x45 mm to keep them visually different from the 223 for the Mini-14.


TomP

Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right.

Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906)
 
Posts: 14590 | Location: Moreno Valley CA USA | Registered: 20 November 2000Reply With Quote
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Accuracy wise in my hunting rifles I see no difference..I get the impression nickel cases take stiffer loads perhaps..

I don't really care for nickel cases as they are so damn hard to resize that they might just give you a hernia, and if you ever stick one your in for it so be sure and lube them good...

Watch nickel carefully as they can flake off I have been told and that makes since.

I like a combo of nickel and brass in big bores to separated solids from softs by sight..I load solids with nickel and softs with brass depending on availability.

But given my druthers, I think I,d take brass everytime.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 42138 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I don't think there'd be any difference...why would there be?
 
Posts: 3720 | Registered: 03 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of vapodog
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the thickness of nickel plating is extremely small.....as little as 50 millionths of an inch.......and while I haven't measured it.....it's normal for the plating to be heavier on the external surfaces than internal surfaces.....which renders the difference in case capacity so little as to be unmeasurable.

IMO the best use for nickel is for load identification...keeping my elk loads separate from my pronghorn loads.

It's also easier for me to keep my nickel cases clean....I prefer them over unplated cases.


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of MuskegMan
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Still trying to scratch my first set of dies. 20 years and counting.



 
Posts: 2097 | Location: S.E. Alaska | Registered: 18 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Nickel can't scratch your die which is much harder. What happens is the nickel flakes in
the die and scratches the case. Think about it
if the scratch was in the die it wouldn't touch the case. A light bevel on the case mouth seems
to prevent flaking. The big advantage of nickel is that you can find the cases in the grass.
 
Posts: 1028 | Location: Mid Michigan | Registered: 08 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by hawkins:
The big advantage of nickel is that you can find the cases in the grass.


IMO, it's pretty much the only advantage.
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of cal30 1906
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I know I'm reviving an old thread but.. I actually prefer nickel brass due mostly to easy clean up. I like my cases shiny and new looking, not feeling sticky or gummy and nickel allows me to get them to my liking much faster than brass.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

Cal30




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Posts: 3075 | Location: Northern Nevada & Northern Idaho | Registered: 09 April 2005Reply With Quote
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I did not scrap some .270Win nickle cases after first firing. Now I am glad. I am going to use them.
 
Posts: 323 | Registered: 17 April 2010Reply With Quote
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