I saw an advert for a .32 ACP pistol bullet in a 30-06 rifle with an insert.
I have used the .41 AE in .416 Remington magnum so know how this works, but was wndering if anyone had experience with this variation.
Also where to get .32 ACP bullets and what does the ACP stand for?
Thanks
camshaft

MCA/Ace Dube has what your looking for, I think.

http://www.mcace.com/index.htm

ACP = Automatic Colt Pistol

ACP=Automatic Colt Pistol and the bullet for this is .311 while the .30-06 uses a .308 bullet.

I wouldn't venture this way!.....stick to .308" bullets like the 80 grain half jackets out there.

quote:

Originally posted by camshaft:
I saw an advert for a .32 ACP pistol bullet in a 30-06 rifle with an insert.
I have used the .41 AE in .416 Remington magnum so know how this works, but was wndering if anyone had experience with this variation.
Also where to get .32 ACP bullets and what does the ACP stand for?
Thanks
camshaft

If you don't reload, this might be a useful way to turn your '06 into a plinker or small game rifle.

ACP stands for Automatic Colt Pistol (7.65 Browning).

I reload .... so I can produce more accurate low velocity loads using the larger rifle case and suitable lead bullets with pistol powders.

DaMan
If I was to send you 100 or more empty 30-06 cases will you reload a low velocity series of bullets for me?
Camshaft

For those of us who have a Mark I 1903 Springfield it's nothing strange. It came with a extra bolt and magazine to use with a small cartridge and fired as a semi auto. Off hand I don't remember the dimensions of the cartridge.

Mete
Are you thinking of the Pederson device? If so, the cartridge was dimensionally the same as the 32 auto, but with a slightly hotter powder charge.

Such devices have been around for MANY years...at least 85 that I know of.

In the old days they were usually sold as devices for using factory pistol ammo in rifles to hunt small game at ranges of about 30 yards or LESS. When money was really scarce during the dirty-'30s the economy of the pistol ammo was emphasized in the ads.

Basically, two types of inserts were made. One held the cartridge toward the "bullet" end of the device, placing the pistol cartridge bullet as near as possible to the origin of the rifling.

That usually wan't very near in reality, and in my experience target accuracy was usually rather poor beyond about 15 yards, regardless of bullet diameter.

This type had an auxillary firing pin almost as long as the rifle's chamber which was held inside the body of the device. The rifle's firing pin struck the base of the auxillary firing pin, thus striking the pistol cartridge primer with the nose of the auxillary pin.

The other method was to make a complete false cartridge, reamed to take the pistol cartridge at the base end. In this version, some few were rifled for the travel of the bullet down the bore of the adapter, but most were smooth-bore for that distance, for obvious reasons. The better ones had a relatively tight smooth bore so the bullet did not become "cocked" while traveling to the origin of the rifle's rifling.

The rifle's firing pin in this type struck the pistol cartridge primers directly and there was no auxillary firing pin.

These seemed to me to be much more acurate, so long as the bullet was slightly OVER rifle bore size....much as is often found when firing cast bullets. Of course, that is no real surprise, as much of the pistol ammo sold in those days HAD cast or swaged unjacketed bullets.

And, in that type of device, the .311" bullets are not only generally more accurate in .308" groove diameter rifles, but are perfectly safe regardless of being slightly oversized.

I even still have one which I've owned for 50 years, which fires 4 m/m rimfire "B-Bs" in the 7x57. It has a rifled bore. In theory at least, the 4 m/m projectile never touches the .276 bore (land diameter) as it travels through it, so the rifling and spin imparted to the ball are useful in that instance. One might be suprised to see how dead that little gadget will kill Valley Quail!

Anyway, I emphasize to you that all such devices are not good for target accuracy at ANY distance. But, they are perfectly capable of "Minute of Grouse" or even "Minute of Rat" shooting at up to about a maximum of 30 yards.

As such, they can be very handy for a person who wants to use one around the barn...or out in the bush when he wants small game for the camp table without greatly upsetting all the animals throughout the area.

I guess i wasn't aware they made sub guage tubes for rifles. I've been useing Briley tubes for my shotguns for years but i guess i never saw a need to look at rifle tubes. Interesting.

For what it's worth the Pederson cartridge
wasn't the same as the 32 ACP. It was longer
the French adapted it to their pistol.
Good luck!

I had to find my book. The 30 Pederson round was copied by the French as their 7.65MAS ,slightly longer than the 32acp.85 gr @ 1120 , used in the M1935A pistol for one.
Does anyone know of a gun that has two ejection ports like the Mk I ??

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
I even still have one which I've owned for 50 years, which fires 4 m/m rimfire "B-Bs" in the 7x57. It has a rifled bore. In theory at least, the 4 m/m projectile never touches the .276 bore (land diameter) as it travels through it, so the rifling and spin imparted to the ball are useful in that instance. One might be suprised to see how dead that little gadget will kill Valley Quail!

Gallery rifles for this caliber were called here "Zimmerstutzen", there as also a competition version for 15 meter target practice. Now, it's either 10 meter air rifle or 50 meter .22 lr at the clubs.

I still remembered how aged 12 or so I envied a friend who was allowed to use his dad's 4 mm long RF to shot doves and other birds. This little thing carried a 4x scope and was very accurate and deadly until 30 meters or so. I only had my Weihrauch HW35 air rifle.

This is the ammo:



This one is exactly as my buddies rifle. It sells for 60,- €.



This is the old Schützenverein version:



Here the Karabiner 98k training rifle for boys:

quote:

Originally posted by camshaft:
DaMan
If I was to send you 100 or more empty 30-06 cases will you reload a low velocity series of bullets for me?
Camshaft

Camshaft, I assume this is the type of insert device you are talking about for your '06.



I would be glad to load you a hundred or so low velocity plinkers for your '06.

PM me with your address in Suid-Afrika and we'll work out the details! But I'm not sure if this is "legal"!

quote:

Originally posted by camshaft:
I have used the .41 AE in .416 Remington magnum so know how this works,

PS - I would also be interested to hear more about that .41 AE to .416 Rem Mag insert!

DUK -

Just to be perfectly clear (does that sound like Richard Nixon?), I don't doubt the 4m/m is very accurate in rifles chambered for it.

But generally speaking, because of tolerances, etc., when used in auxillary cartridges for chambers in rifles chambered for much larger cartridges, my experience is that accuracy is not very great.

They will kill small game pretty rreliably up close, but I sure wouldn't try to teach or get target accuracy of any remarkable degree with them.

Other's mileage may vary.

Insert barrels/vs. insert cartridges...... do y'all understand the difference?!!!

DaMan
Thank you for the offer. I actually am here in the Sates, so that part should be easier.
After listening to the meditations of the sages I am actually thinking it would be best if there is a way to have a downloaded 30-06 shell (normal 30-06 case and bullet) that pushes about 1000 ft/sec. with the lightest bullet they make for it (but not the accelerator bullet). Maybe something in the 125 grain range. I am open to options as I am not a reloader. I know there might be issues with the powder being too loose in the case...I am guessing you would have to chronograph the load if there is not already a recipe for it.
Have you reloaded with this kind of a situation before?
Camshaft

quote:

Originally posted by camshaft:
DaMan
Thank you for the offer. I actually am here in the Sates, so that part should be easier.
After listening to the meditations of the sages I am actually thinking it would be best if there is a way to have a downloaded 30-06 shell (normal 30-06 case and bullet) that pushes about 1000 ft/sec. with the lightest bullet they make for it (but not the accelerator bullet). Maybe something in the 125 grain range. I am open to options as I am not a reloader. I know there might be issues with the powder being too loose in the case...I am guessing you would have to chronograph the load if there is not already a recipe for it.
Have you reloaded with this kind of a situation before?
Camshaft

Hey Cam
I have some Trail Boss powder. It is designed for reduced charges. I believe it is pretty easy to get a 180 gr bullet at 1000fps, but I am not sure for the lighter weight bullets. IMRs load data show the max charge netting about 1450 fps with a 150 gr bullet in the 30-06. But the sight states that you can go 30% below the listed max, so you might get close to 1000fps. Here is the load data

I have been meaning to get to the range to work up some subsonic loads for my 30-06 using 190 grain bullets, but have been stuck close to home.

I have a chronograph and a portable reloading set-up. Maybe we could meet at the Circle S shooting range and work up some loads. Just let me know.

Here is a thread where tests were done with trail boss.

I actually have a round made up that shoots a .338 at about 1000ft./sec and it is throwing a 180 grain bullet, so I think this will work. As I think about it you want the heavier bullet so it will go slower with more stability, so the 180 grain works.
It looks like I am only a couple hours away form the circle S so could meet you there, it sounds like fun!
Let me know some dates that will work for you. I have plenty of empty 30-06 brass if you want me to send you a bunch.
Camshaft

Just in case you're still interested in the chamber inserts, they are pretty cheap...

http://www.sportsmansguide.com...insert.aspx?a=471502

Either way, reduced loads are fun!

Those chamber inserts are what got me thinking, but after listening to the sages on line I think what Jason proposes is the best. I do want to shoot cull animals from a blind, so I so want reasonable accuracy, A full case with reduced load is probably the best way to go, so I will head that direction providing Jason and I can hook up.

Cam

Mostly impala and blesbuck. I would like to be able to shoot numerous ones from the same blind without disturbing the herd. (Yes I know it is not really possible, but it can work under the right circumstances.) I have to cull about 100 of each this year on my ranch in RSA. I offer some of the shooting on AR and would like to have a quiet load worked up that I could offer to the shooters. I also provide staff rations which I want to collect with out undue pressure on the herds.
Camshaft

Cam, what sort of animals will you be culling?

quote:

Originally posted by camshaft:
Mostly impala and blesbuck. I would like to be able to shoot numerous ones from the same blind without disturbing the herd. (Yes I know it is not really possible, but it can work under the right circumstances.)

Cam, I really don't know of any "reloading' solution that would work for the situation you described. Even the "plinking" loads make a significant "crack". And I wouldn't consider them accurate or powerful enough for humane one-shot kills on the game animals you are targeting.

Are suppressors an option?

I found this article where they used 9 gr. of Trail Boss behind a 180 grain lead bullet for 1,100 fps out of a Springfield '06.

Accuracy looked quite good.

Trail Boss K.I.S.S.

Thanks,
WE are going to try to work up some loads and go to the range the end of the month.
I will let you know how it cmes out,
Camshaft